26 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

I wondered who was going to become this season's Matic or Mikel.  Looks like a toss-up between Willian and Cesc.  Ungrateful bar stewards

Are you suggesting Mikel used to come in for criticism YB? Can't say I remember that to be honest!

As for Willian, it was only a couple of weeks back against Everton that everyone was singing his praises. He was brilliant that day. Yesterday he was poor - very poor. But these things happen - Hazard won't be brilliant every game - Harry Kane went through August without scoring. Even I used to have the odd below par game back in the day....................

 

53 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

I wondered who was going to become this season's Matic or Mikel.  Looks like a toss-up between Willian and Cesc.  Ungrateful bar stewards

These c**ts always have to have somebody to pile on. My money's on Cahill.

14 minutes ago, bluedave said:

These c**ts always have to have somebody to pile on. My money's on Cahill.

maybe, just maybe, a player has had a bad game.

1 hour ago, yorkleyblue said:

I wondered who was going to become this season's Matic or Mikel.  Looks like a toss-up between Willian and Cesc.  Ungrateful bar stewards

Here we go, I have been calling Willian out for his inconsistent performances for years so no change of opinion by me.

Mikel was f**king awful for Chelsea.

Edited September 18, 20178 yr by Ernie_blue

1 hour ago, Nibs said:

Are you suggesting Mikel used to come in for criticism YB? Can't say I remember that to be honest!

As for Willian, it was only a couple of weeks back against Everton that everyone was singing his praises. He was brilliant that day. Yesterday he was poor - very poor. But these things happen - Hazard won't be brilliant every game - Harry Kane went through August without scoring. Even I used to have the odd below par game back in the day....................

 

Willian is more often poor than good, that's why he is a squad player. Hazard and Kane will have more good games than poor and that's why they are top draw players. Can't really compare.

23 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

maybe, just maybe, a player has had a bad game.

More than one.

18 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

More than one.

Agreed, but you can't have a bad opinion about a Chesea player on here because some fans think you have to lick players arses and praise them as gods that can do no wrong. 

16 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Willian is more often poor than good, that's why he is a squad player. Hazard and Kane will have more good games than poor and that's why they are top draw players. Can't really compare.

I think Willian is another of those frustrating players. Seems to be capable of so much more than he actually produces. I wouldn't go as far to say he is poor more often than good, but he doesn't do enough in a lot of games. Folk will state that he was our player of the season, season before last, but I think he maintained his form when pretty much every one else WAS poor. Just as he has looked decent enough whilst Hazard has been out. Now Hazard is back and we see a truly TOP player, Willian looks kinda average again. Still a handy squad player but frustrating nonetheless.

 

32 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Mikel was f**king awful for Chelsea.

Wrong.

Mikel was fine, as a squad player to close out 1-0 wins, nothing more, nothing less.

Willian has so much ability on the ball but his decision making is poor and he has to think a lot more, unlike players like Hazard and Cesc who instinctively know the right play all the time. I wouldn't sell willian, but he's never going to improve his end product, he is what he is, which is a great technical dribbler. That's incredibly important for the type of football we play, being able to retain the ball in tight spots and beat a man. He was poor against Arsenal but he's criminally underrated here. Is no one going to comment on how w**k Sanchez was when he came on, while sanchez was the player most of us would have wanted to replace Willian

"unlike players like Hazard and Cesc who instinctively know the right play all the time."

I'm not sure I'd agree with this either - Neither one covered themselves with glory yesterday, and the match thread was fairly abusive to Fabregas most of theh way through.

25 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

"unlike players like Hazard and Cesc who instinctively know the right play all the time."

I'm not sure I'd agree with this either - Neither one covered themselves with glory yesterday, and the match thread was fairly abusive to Fabregas most of theh way through.

I mean in general though, they know where players are and can make quick effective passes, layoffs and such without even needing to raise their heads, their game sense is top notch (yesterday was a slow day at the office from everyone). Willian generally takes an extra couple of seconds to make a pass and after beating a man can sometimes look lost as to what to do next. 

51 minutes ago, Stim said:

Wrong.

Nope.

59 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Agreed, but you can't have a bad opinion about a Chesea player on here because some fans think you have to lick players arses and praise them as gods that can do no wrong. 

Agree with you there. Problem is some people seem to think if you find a player is inconsistent or has a bad game it's the equivalent in their eyes of hatred so they have to go on the defence. 

1 hour ago, Nibs said:

I think Willian is another of those frustrating players. Seems to be capable of so much more than he actually produces. I wouldn't go as far to say he is poor more often than good, but he doesn't do enough in a lot of games. Folk will state that he was our player of the season, season before last, but I think he maintained his form when pretty much every one else WAS poor. Just as he has looked decent enough whilst Hazard has been out. Now Hazard is back and we see a truly TOP player, Willian looks kinda average again. Still a handy squad player but frustrating nonetheless.

 

When I was watching soccer Saturday they was talking about Son at Spurs and how he can come into a game and make the difference. He plays for 5 and goes back to being average, reminds me of Willian. I'm not saying Son and Willian are identical players but in terms of there performances it sounds identical.

43 minutes ago, RMCM said:

Mikel was fine, as a squad player to close out 1-0 wins, nothing more, nothing less.

Willian has so much ability on the ball but his decision making is poor and he has to think a lot more, unlike players like Hazard and Cesc who instinctively know the right play all the time. I wouldn't sell willian, but he's never going to improve his end product, he is what he is, which is a great technical dribbler. That's incredibly important for the type of football we play, being able to retain the ball in tight spots and beat a man. He was poor against Arsenal but he's criminally underrated here. Is no one going to comment on how w**k Sanchez was when he came on, while sanchez was the player most of us would have wanted to replace Willian

Sanchez doesn't give two sh*ts about Arsenal football club. Some fans probably have more love 

4 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

When I was watching soccer Saturday they was talking about Son at Spurs and how he can come into a game and make the difference. He plays for 5 and goes back to being average, reminds me of Willian. I'm not saying Son and Willian are identical players but in terms of there performances it sounds identical.

Commonly known as "being a winger".

3 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

Poor excuses 

one poor game isn't an excuse. he's been pretty good this season.

1 hour ago, dkw said:

Commonly known as "being a winger".

Or "squad player winger"

1 hour ago, enigma said:

one poor game isn't an excuse. he's been pretty good this season.

27 mins against Leicester, 90 mins against some part timers at home. Internationals was well over a week ago, I struggle to see how his jet lagged or needs a rest. 

@Ernie_blue I think you and me have a hugely different view of what makes a good and valuable player and what doesn't.  I can't honestly see how you form your opinion of Willian and what he brings to the side.  Honestly, I just can't.

Still, it's a funny old game, Saint.  What's that line about opinions and arseholes?  Without opinions, we wouldn't have such informed and perspicacious commentary on every match-day thread, would we? 

21 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

@Ernie_blue I think you and me have a hugely different view of what makes a good and valuable player and what doesn't.  I can't honestly see how you form your opinion of Willian and what he brings to the side.  Honestly, I just can't.

Still, it's a funny old game, Saint.  What's that line about opinions and arseholes?  Without opinions, we wouldn't have such informed and perspicacious commentary on every match-day thread, would we? 

I try and stay away from the match-day thread as much as possible, everyone was proven right about Baka should have been starting. My opinion of Willian has been the same for years though so no one can accuse me of having a knee jerk reaction because of one game. His one of them players who could be replaced quite easily in my eyes. 

5 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

I wondered who was going to become this season's Matic or Mikel.  Looks like a toss-up between Willian and Cesc.  Ungrateful bar stewards

You're forgetting Cahill. This is a special year with 3 scapegoatable options.

@the detractors I just don't understand this attitude. We all know Willian is limited in his end product, Cahill is limited in his passing ability and Cesc in his defensive ability. Nobody disagrees with this. What do you hope to achieve by pointing out the obvious again and again and again? At least think of something new to say. Practically every player in the world is limited in some way but brings something else to the table. If anything, ask Conte for a cost benefit analysis and then blame him for playing them if you want. You can then conveniently forget your shenanigans if we win the league and not stop for a second to think that maybe, just maybe, Conte isn't a complete idiot and he used certain players for a reason. How can it ever make sense to scapegoat a player for having well documented flaws if they put in effort? We have the squad we have, and it is a very good squad. None of your moaning can change the squad, and no squad can anyway have 16 world class options.

If you accuse them of a lack of effort, then that's something. 

This is so stupid.

15 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

I try and stay away from the match-day thread as much as possible, everyone was proven right about Baka should have been starting. My opinion of Willian has been the same for years though so no one can accuse me of having a knee jerk reaction because of one game. His one of them players who could be replaced quite easily in my eyes. 

My point was that you may well have had a poor opinion of Willian for years, but I just don't understand it.  The player is nowhere near as bad as you make out and doesn't deserve the abuse that he gets.  He always works very hard for the team,and someone has to, and, when he does turn it on, he can take us from defence to attack in seconds, making top-class defenders look like idiots in the process.  He has scored and made some impressive goals for us and I think he deserves a bit of respect.

I will admit that he doesn't always perform at his highest level, the same as most, if not all players, but I, for one, am never disappointed to see him in the team, or lining up to come on as a substitute.  I can't remember one occasion in all the time he has been here when he has cost us points, or even looked the worst of our team on the pitch.

Hear, hear. His tight control is so essential to the way we play. Especially without Hazard he is perhaps the only one who can control under pressure and turn and move the play on. 

Admittedly he didn't do this as well against Arsenal (their pressure was intense) but those who don't appreciate him tend to focus a bit too much on goals and assists.