Oh come now: the original poster's question was not innocently put & left at that  - it was a rhetorical conceit to which he then supplied his own answer. The answer he gave to such a conceit produced the heresy. Further, and given your legal experience I'm even more surprised & I might add, dismayed by your original post if anything.

Heresy is a loaded word as it implies that a statement/question is completely beyond the pale. I don't think that we can say that questioning any aspect of the Hillsborough inquest, or reactions to it, is heresy. I say this because freedom of expression (including to offend) is very important.

I would concede that there might be sensible reasons to begin a claim as soon as possible. The question of how long a delay is "seemly" is more open to interpretation. A delay of a few days will have little impact on a case that might last for years unless there are limitation-based reasons to issue by a certain date. Because of that, I agree with SP that issuing only a day after the conclusion 'feels' (emotionally, not rationally) too soon. It's a personal view and not everyone will agree.

Heresy is a loaded word as it implies that a statement/question is completely beyond the pale. I don't think that we can say that questioning any aspect of the Hillsborough inquest, or reactions to it, is heresy. I say this because freedom of expression (including to offend) is very important.

I would concede that there might be sensible reasons to begin a claim as soon as possible. The question of how long a delay is "seemly" is more open to interpretation. A delay of a few days will have little impact on a case that might last for years unless there are limitation-based reasons to issue by a certain date. Because of that, I agree with SP that issuing only a day after the conclusion 'feels' (emotionally, not rationally) too soon. It's a personal view and not everyone will agree.

 

I have to say this is more dissembling on your part really: for some one that upholds freedom of expression as 'important' as you do & at one and same time seeks to critique what was clearly a figurative use by me of the material word in the context is cherry-picking, pure and simple. And let's be honest: you have done so in an attempt at deflection of my criticism of those, including you, who use such terms as 'inappropriate' or 'unseemly' or 'classless' or 'non-caring'. What the original poster sought to do was to be critical of any relatives bringing compensation claims expeditiously. That is a fair summation you would have to admit. I took exception to that & also took exception to your comment which was materially of the same view. You now concede, not before time it must be said, that there are substantive reasons for such expedition. But after doing so, you once again retreat from that concession by recourse to further softeners - the use of 'seemly' or 'feels....too soon': tell me this - what on earth has your interpretation of moral time-lines in the given context have to do with the issue? Surely it is only a matter for those claimants & for them alone as to when they choose to proceed. And why should they bear any sort of criticism for doing so immediately especially in circumstances where you readily admit that there are important reasons why they should do so? You suggest that a delay of 'a few days' will have little impact. Tell me: do you think you should write to the claimants or their solicitors and let them know that, if it's all the same to them, if they wouldn't mind holding off from filing their plaints for a few days in order that you'll feel more comfortable about the whole thing? I think that finally closes the gate on your moral superiority does it not?

Edited April 29, 201610 yr by youlots

^ I think we'll have to draw a line under this Youlots. I can't add to my explanation without repeating myself and my view of the issue is unlikely to change. I haven't softened my position - I stand by the view that it feels too soon to issue a claim for compensation.

I wasn't going to chip in, but my two penneth worth. I like to think I keep myself informed, but I've learned more, or did I know and forget, about Hillsborough. I think I can most relate to the great Peter Osborne's piece, respect him even though he's a Tory, in the Mail of all things.

My anger said, sue the ruddy pants off them! Money is not the issue for me, but the process of accountability. Some have got away with it for a very long time.

We all know it won't erase pain, or bring them back, but it's a mechanism to make the immoral pay and in more than financial terms.

I keep thinking about the ten year old's blood taken for alcohol testing; the two teenage sisters and not being able to touch loved ones they being 'property of the coroner'. Makes me so angry, no idea how those involved must be feeling and if suing, maybe prompted by anger maybe not, I get that. After so many years and further deaths I'd be inclined to press on I think, but acknowledge some may disapprove.

Classless?!? Non-caring?!? What entirely disgraceful comments. The relatives of those unlawfully killed have battled for justice for 27 years! How much longer should they wait for some sort of compensation for it not to be 'classless' in your eyes? No amount of money will ever bring back their loved ones and yet that is their only redress for all the suffering they have experienced. To impugn them as you do is a terrible calumny and akin to the entirely deceitful impugning that was promulgated by the south yorkshire constabulary, it's legal advisors & the gutter murdoch press for much of that period. Have you learnt nothing out of what has come to light? Shame on you.

^^^ word salad

I have to say this is more dissembling on your part really: for some one that upholds freedom of expression as 'important' as you do & at one and same time seeks to critique what was clearly a figurative use by me of the material word in the context is cherry-picking, pure and simple. And let's be honest: you have done so in an attempt at deflection of my criticism of those, including you, who use such terms as 'inappropriate' or 'unseemly' or 'classless' or 'non-caring'. What the original poster sought to do was to be critical of any relatives bringing compensation claims expeditiously. That is a fair summation you would have to admit. I took exception to that & also took exception to your comment which was materially of the same view. You now concede, not before time it must be said, that there are substantive reasons for such expedition. But after doing so, you once again retreat from that concession by recourse to further softeners - the use of 'seemly' or 'feels....too soon': tell me this - what on earth has your interpretation of moral time-lines in the given context have to do with the issue? Surely it is only a matter for those claimants & for them alone as to when they choose to proceed. And why should they bear any sort of criticism for doing so immediately especially in circumstances where you readily admit that there are important reasons why they should do so? You suggest that a delay of 'a few days' will have little impact. Tell me: do you think you should write to the claimants or their solicitors and let them know that, if it's all the same to them, if they wouldn't mind holding off from filing their plaints for a few days in order that you'll feel more comfortable about the whole thing? I think that finally closes the gate on your moral superiority does it not?

^^^ sobbing uncontrollably

Move on now.

This has become more of an agenda against Liverpool and an ideology of victimisation as opposed to genuine loss and grief for those unforurtunate 'actual' victims of the tragedy.

Total media circus.

This has become more of an agenda against Liverpool and an ideology of victimisation as opposed to genuine loss and grief for those unforurtunate 'actual' victims of the tragedy.

Total media circus.

Worse than that Mayo, wrong doing and the covering upon of wrong doing by those who are supposed to serve and protect. I agree with Oborne, there should be a full and thorough review of our police forces.

Edit

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3560552/PETER-OBORNE-Corruption-27-years-lies-Hillsborough-destroyed-faith-police.html

Edited April 29, 201610 yr by Droogba

Okay youlots, we get your point and your condescending manner, rude tone, sarcastic comments to someone merely sharing their opinion in a respectable way was really unnecessary. I understand it's a delicate subject, especially for those who were following it at the time but if you could show the same courtesy you’re being shown in the replies that would be great.

That the hopes and dreams of success could be completely crushed for Manchester City, Liverpool and most importantly Spurs by this time next week leaves me with a warm, fuzzy feeling.

To throw in my meaning of the 'classless' comment.

For 27 years the campaign was called 'Justice for the 96' the families fought all these years to bring out the truth, to make it clear that mistakes were made that day, and in truth, for years before mistakes were made, but for luck Hillsborough could have happened at any ground anytime!

Then the day after they achieve their goal, they win their fight, the justice they have been seeking is finally theirs, they can rest, savour the fact that their loved ones names are no longer tarnished in the eyes of the law.......... The compensation claims start!

A few weeks wait, considering they've already waited 27 years.

I've read much about how it is being seen as a class war, I think there's something in that.

South Yorkshire Police has admitted responsibility for everything that has ever been wrong with the great city of Liverpool and the cheeky little scallywags who call it home. The police will also retrospectively apologise for any other grievances Liverpudlians may remember or dream up in future.

‘We sincerely apologise for the decline of traditional heavy industries and the resulting mass unemployment,’ said South Yorkshire’s Police Commissioner Numpty. ‘We’re truly sorry for the sectarian religious hatred so many of the city’s residents brought with them from Ireland. We’d also like to apologise for your shell suits, moustaches, curly perms and ridiculous accents. Oh, and Brookside, Ferry Cross The Mersey, Derek Hatton, Lily Savage and Holly Johnson.’

It doesn't just affect Liverpool, or Liverpudlians.

To throw in my meaning of the 'classless' comment.

For 27 years the campaign was called 'Justice for the 96' the families fought all these years to bring out the truth, to make it clear that mistakes were made that day, and in truth, for years before mistakes were made, but for luck Hillsborough could have happened at any ground anytime!

Then the day after they achieve their goal, they win their fight, the justice they have been seeking is finally theirs, they can rest, savour the fact that their loved ones names are no longer tarnished in the eyes of the law.......... The compensation claims start!

A few weeks wait, considering they've already waited 27 years.

 

If they've been waiting and preparing for this verdict for 27 years then I don't understand why you want them to wait for another arbitrary period of time before submitting compensation claims. You don't justify it at all and it appears to me that you (and others) are using this as an excuse to have a dig at rival football fans. That's not very classy, is it?

South Yorkshire Police has admitted responsibility for everything that has ever been wrong with the great city of Liverpool and the cheeky little scallywags who call it home. The police will also retrospectively apologise for any other grievances Liverpudlians may remember or dream up in future.

‘We sincerely apologise for the decline of traditional heavy industries and the resulting mass unemployment,’ said South Yorkshire’s Police Commissioner Numpty. ‘We’re truly sorry for the sectarian religious hatred so many of the city’s residents brought with them from Ireland. We’d also like to apologise for your shell suits, moustaches, curly perms and ridiculous accents. Oh, and Brookside, Ferry Cross The Mersey, Derek Hatton, Lily Savage and Holly Johnson.’

Find a more empathetic persona?

Choose one from below:

Sage Peter

benedict_oioi

Big Fathead

Long Gone 66

Dunnydo

bazzablue

Te Dious

Sid Snot

Norfolkblue1

bluehaze

Bertie Smalls

Iggy Doonican

Vic Flange

Terry Medford

Wrote For Luck

whitewall66

(Passed it)

If they've been waiting and preparing for this verdict for 27 years then I don't understand why you want them to wait for another arbitrary period of time before submitting compensation claims. You don't justify it at all and it appears to me that you (and others) are using this as an excuse to have a dig at rival football fans. That's not very classy, is it?

 

Indeed, and how do you calculate what period of time has to elapse before it becomes acceptable?

 

If a child of mine had died there, my claim would have been in the instant the verdict was issued. I might have used the money for a related charity, or I might have used it to help my dead child's siblings. But, given that I cannot personally wreak vengeance upon those who covered up the truth for 27 years, I certainly would not have waited to punish them in the only way left to me.

Please keep all Hillsborough related conversation to the designated thread:

http://www.theshedend.com/topic/29420-hillsborough-verdict

Topic closed for the time being.

Re-opened.

I'm sure some of you have seen Wenger's comments about pretty much blaming Arsenal's fans for the reason why they lost the league this season.

'We lost the championship at home against the lower teams, but we played at home in a very difficult climate'

Re-opened.

I'm sure some of you have seen Wenger's comments about pretty much blaming Arsenal's fans for the reason why they lost the league this season.

'We lost the championship at home against the lower teams, but we played at home in a very difficult climate'

usually the beginning of the end for manager's when they turn on the fans!

^ As much as I love to hear Wenger ripping into Arsenal fans, his claim isn't even true.

 

Arsenal have dropped four points at home against teams in the bottom half (although they are yet to play Norwich and Villa at home). Leicester have dropped the same number of points (and I assume no one is questioning their atmosphere). Tottenham have in fact dropped seven points!

Wenger chats so much sh*t I'm beginning to wonder if he caught something contagious off Joe Kinnear during his short spell at Newcastle.

You would think by making such a strong statement the old fool would have at least double checked his words were factual.

He’s on the brink now, the banners are coming out in force and even the bigger players like Ozil and Sanchez look disillusioned with being at a club who are going nowhere.

Re-opened.

I'm sure some of you have seen Wenger's comments about pretty much blaming Arsenal's fans for the reason why they lost the league this season.

'We lost the championship at home against the lower teams, but we played at home in a very difficult climate'

Wenger telling them they are only annoyed because people are telling them they are annoyed. Treating the fans who pay his enormous wage with utter contempt ha ha

Where's Spuddy? Potch has signed for another five, good news for them, challenging for us, but under our new man who knows!