I've never referred to Ozil as German Turkish or know anyone who gives him stick for having Turkish origins.

Anyone who knows à little history understand that Germany and Turkey have had quite the link over the last century.

The fact is, Erdogan esposes ideas and commits actions that are against the values of any self respecting western democracy, and getting a smiling pic with him was not a clever move. 

1 hour ago, Davey Baby said:

Ozil was born in Germany. He is a German citizen. He has a German passport. He doesn't have a drop of German blood inside him. His blood is Turkish. His parents are Turkish. He will have been brought up in a very Turkish way, with Turkish customs and Turkish food. He will also have been brought up in a very German way because he lived in Germany. He will have spoken Turkish at home and German at school. Is he German or Turkish? It's possible to feel both. He's German, obviously, but he may feel equally or more Turkish. I think he's right when he says he's German when he wins and Turkish when he's lost.

He could have been raised as a dolphin, it doesn't change the fact that his performance at the World Cup was absolutely pathetic and stood out so even amidst a poor showing by the whole side. Again, irrespective of nationality and heritage, he made the error of mixing sport and politics and got some deserved criticism and some over the top criticism (notably from right wing politicians). Not sure he's ever been quite brilliant either. Yes in games here and there but, he's no different to shed loads of players who have talent (that's why they're pros) yet can't produce their best consistently. Ilkay Gundogan doesn't seem to be making a song and dance about it and he was there too.

Gundogan doesn't get nearly the same level of vitriol. He had his photo taken with a dodgy politician, he's about the millionth sportsman to do that, I think the criticism is way OTT.

2 hours ago, Davey Baby said:

Another thing, I've always felt Ozil attracts so much criticism in England because he's "German", whereas if he were "Turkish", he'd be celebrated as a brilliant player, because people wouldn't expect quite so much. If you actually forget for a moment that he's German, you realise he's actually quite a brilliant Turkish player. I hope that makes sense.

He's attracted so much criticism because he's always appeared disinterested and lazy. He only ever plays at one pace. Even if his team are desperately looking for a goal, you won't see Ozil step up and force something to happen. People expect so much of him because he was rated as a top class player at Real Madrid before he joined Arsenal. It's got nothing to do with him being German.

16 minutes ago, Snedger said:

Not sure he's ever been quite brilliant either. Yes in games here and there but, he's no different to shed loads of players who have talent (that's why they're pros) yet can't produce their best consistently.

 

Sure, maybe he can't produce his best consistently, like many other players, but he's very different to most players in the sense that he generally plays at a very high standard, which is why Arsenal broke the bank to keep him and which is why he was a key player in a team that won the WC. People have different expectations of a top Turkish player and a top German player, that's my point. He's a flair player who can blow hot and cold. If he were "Turkish" this would be far more celebrated in my view. He gets an incredible amount of flak.

Then if the Manshafft shirt is too heavy for him he's right to not put it on again?

29 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

 

Sure, maybe he can't produce his best consistently, like many other players, but he's very different to most players in the sense that he generally plays at a very high standard, which is why Arsenal broke the bank to keep him and which is why he was a key player in a team that won the WC. People have different expectations of a top Turkish player and a top German player, that's my point. He's a flair player who can blow hot and cold. If he were "Turkish" this would be far more celebrated in my view. He gets an incredible amount of flak.

I'm not understanding the issue you're raising Davey.  He's being judged unfairly as a German instead of as Turkish? 

But he is not Turkish, he is a German of Turkish decent.  He grew up in the German system and all that just as much as any German player, and unlike every Turkish player.

Of course he would be praised more if he performed as he did for Germany in the Turkish team, but he didn't.  He did it in a German team just oozing class after being able to hone his skills in the superior German system his whole life, not a Turkish team full of Championship tier players going through whatever system they have there.

32 minutes ago, Barry Bridges said:

I'm not understanding the issue you're raising Davey.  He's being judged unfairly as a German instead of as Turkish? 

But he is not Turkish, he is a German of Turkish decent.  He grew up in the German system and all that just as much as any German player, and unlike every Turkish player.

Of course he would be praised more if he performed as he did for Germany in the Turkish team, but he didn't.  He did it in a German team just oozing class after being able to hone his skills in the superior German system his whole life, not a Turkish team full of Championship tier players going through whatever system they have there.

 

Presumably he could have chosen Turkey as his national team. He would then be considered Turkish, I imagine. He would still play for Arsenal but he wouldn't attract nearly as much criticism. This is my fundamental belief. He would be celebrated more for the talent he is and there would be less focus on his undoubted flaws. People have a very negative perception of him as a player but if he were considered Turkish I think that perception would be a whole lot kinder.

 

Edit: They'd talk about his flair rather then the fact he sometimes goes missing. Another similar case is Berbatov. Spectacular player, one of my faves. He went missing sometimes but he didn't get nearly the same level of vitriol. Romanian, rather than German.

Edited July 23, 20187 yr by Davey Baby

10 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

 

Presumably he could have chosen Turkey as his national team. He would then be considered Turkish, I imagine. He would still play for Arsenal but he wouldn't attract nearly as much criticism. This is my fundamental belief. He would be celebrated more for the talent he is and there would be less focus on his undoubted flaws. People have a very negative perception of him as a player but if he were considered Turkish I think that perception would be a whole lot kinder.

 

Edit: They'd talk about his flair rather then the fact he sometimes goes missing. Another similar case is Berbatov. Spectacular player, one of my faves. He went missing sometimes but he didn't get nearly the same level of vitriol. Romanian, rather than German.

 I suspect you are most likely quite correct in that assessment. Mind you, small price to pay to win a World Cup.

2 minutes ago, Barry Bridges said:

 I suspect you are most likely quite correct in that assessment. 

 

Indeed it is Barry.

8 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

I would laugh but they know he's sh*t and that's why they've dropped a world record fee on a goalkeeper to replace him. 

Liverpool are showing a lot of ambition in the transfer market and have invested heavily in every area of the pitch now. I still think they look suspect in the fullback positions but it's a pretty decent first XI they've built now. Not much depth in the defensive areas and they don't have a quality back up forward if Firminho doesn't play. 

I think it's crazy how they haven't been challenged on any of their singings, they've got the likes of Fabinho & Keita on an absolute steal and wrapped up so early. 

Although I must admit Jorginho for me looks like our best buy since Kante, really good business. 

4 hours ago, BordeauxBlue said:

I've never referred to Ozil as German Turkish or know anyone who gives him stick for having Turkish origins.

Anyone who knows à little history understand that Germany and Turkey have had quite the link over the last century.

The fact is, Erdogan esposes ideas and commits actions that are against the values of any self respecting western democracy, and getting a smiling pic with him was not a clever move. 

As somebody with Turkish origins (both my parents are from Turkey) I can also agree to this. 

Personally, I like politics out of football but the way Ozil cuddles up with Erdogan is just very odd, he isn't even a politician. I'm not sure what Ozil has done with Erdogan (a bloke who I cannot f**king stand btw for obvious reasons) but I did find it very surprising how many times Ozil endorses the man and meets up with him frequently. idealistically, I think that's the man's choice but I think it should be the German FA's choice to remove him for those actions also. 

But again, I like politics out of football so maybe I'm a bit of a hypocrite I don't know. 

Özil has as much right to express his opinions as for instance Colin Kaepernik. The fact that they are in the public eye because of their jobs doesn't diminish that. They get more stick from people who disagree with them than, say, a milkman or a bank teller. In Özil's case, it may have been naive, it may not have been the smartest thing to do when the relationship between Germany and Turkey are very tense, and people are distrustful towards others with divided loyalties, but still he doesn't deserve the vitriolic racism that has been hurled at him.

He's still crap, though.

2 hours ago, Valerie said:

Özil has as much right to express his opinions as for instance Colin Kaepernik. The fact that they are in the public eye because of their jobs doesn't diminish that. They get more stick from people who disagree with them than, say, a milkman or a bank teller. In Özil's case, it may have been naive, it may not have been the smartest thing to do when the relationship between Germany and Turkey are very tense, and people are distrustful towards others with divided loyalties, but still he doesn't deserve the vitriolic racism that has been hurled at him.

He's still crap, though.

Who has been racist towards him? 

I haven't seen it, I don't think Ozil has a strong case here. Ozil should have been dropped for his sh*te performances alone. 

Who are we to question his beliefs? We are all on the outside looking in. I've never understood why any man has to explain himself or his actions to anyone other than his wife.

10 hours ago, Slojo said:

Who has been racist towards him? 

I haven't seen it, I don't think Ozil has a strong case here. Ozil should have been dropped for his sh*te performances alone. 

People have called him all sorts of names for exercising his democratic right. Whether or not that abuse is deemed to be racist is beside the point  in my view: it's been deliberately hurtful and vile. And now he's even getting more abuse for making the decision not to play for his national team anymore, which is also his right without being questioned on what grounds he made that decision. Guy can't win. Not the discussion it has brought on, and not any Man of the Match award 

Edited July 24, 20187 yr by Valerie

https://t.co/29qWKipWwU

a little quiz to pass the time. Scored 45. 

10 hours ago, Valerie said:

People have called him all sorts of names for exercising his democratic right. Whether or not that abuse is deemed to be racist is beside the point  in my view: it's been deliberately hurtful and vile. And now he's even getting more abuse for making the decision not to play for his national team anymore, which is also his right without being questioned on what grounds he made that decision. Guy can't win. Not the discussion it has brought on, and not any Man of the Match award 

Good points - Checkout this video from Raphael Honigstein - I like his explanation of this mess

 

 

Wolves have signed Joao Moutinho. Guess who he agent is. 

52 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

Wolves have signed Joao Moutinho. Guess who he agent is. 

They’re towing a line of legality but I tell you what, that’s some squad they’re building.

Top ten finish for them this season I reckon, they’re going to quickly surpass Newcastle and Bournemouth and maybe Burnley too.

Given time they’ll be pushing Everton as well. 

 

Mendes is a powerful friend for any club.

Looking forward to seeing Moutinho in the PL. He's been linked with so many over the years and it's never quite worked out. Be interesting to see if he is too lightweight after all. 

Just on the Ozil stuff, fair call for him to step away if he feels like that. My view is that because of the way he plays (ghosting around, not doing alot of work without the ball) he is always likely to be criticised when things go wrong, people don't like lazy players. No doubt the race issue plays a part for some people as well, and he should call that out. The photo with Erdogan was a dumb idea, but for many I'm sure it's being used as an excuse to express a view they've long held anyway.

Edited July 24, 20187 yr by Spiller86

Schurrle having a medical at Fulham apparently. I think there’s going to be a lot of expectation on Fulham and Wolves to perform this season. 

3 hours ago, Munkworth said:

Schurrle having a medical at Fulham apparently. I think there’s going to be a lot of expectation on Fulham and Wolves to perform this season. 

Yes Fulham have signed Seri and kept Sessengnon, see them surviving this season with the odd big scalp.

Just seen they have also signed Besitkas keeper Fabri.

Edited July 25, 20187 yr by Strider6003

7 hours ago, Munkworth said:

Schurrle having a medical at Fulham apparently. I think there’s going to be a lot of expectation on Fulham and Wolves to perform this season. 

Injuries seem to be catching up with him a bit nowadays, only managed 18 league appearances last season, seven of them from the bench and just the one goal. 

His biggest positive used to be his goal scoring threat, cutting in from the left but he's only scored 13 goals in the last four seasons.

Whatever the injury he had at Chelsea before we sold him, seems to have messed him up since, showed so much promise for us in his first season.