top 3 last season and currently top 3-5 as a first team player for us with 65+ games in the league...How is he not good enough for this league?

25 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

He’s not good enough in this league - it’s that simple. You will not win a league title with a central midfielder like Jorginho in your side trying to play this way. He’s not got the physical attributes which are so essential in the Prem.

 

Not good for winning the league and not being good enough for the league are two very different things to say.

Brilliant player but not suited for the league.  Robertson blew past him like it was nothing

3 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Not good for winning the league and not being good enough for the league are two very different things to say.

Good thing that’s not what I said then isn’t it? The context around the statement is clear from the next sentence. Why would I care about his ability to play for Norwich? 

6 minutes ago, Deino said:

Brilliant player but not suited for the league.  Robertson blew past him like it was nothing

Pretty sure that over the 2 seasons he proved that he is good in this league, if he wasn't we would never in a 100 years finish top 3 last season.

3 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Good thing that’s not what I said then isn’t it? The context around the statement is clear from the next sentence. Why would I care about his ability to play for Norwich? 

How many players are good enough to win the league in our squad? Kante is injury prone and can't stop 19 year olds on the counter, Pulisic is still too young so he needs an extra season...That's 0-2 players.

13 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Pretty sure that over the 2 seasons he proved that he is good in this league, if he wasn't we would never in a 100 years finish top 3 last season.

He is good at keeping the tempo to a decent pace and slowing things down. He's what you bring on to shut the game up and kill the opposition with possession. 

He'll be great in Italy and Spain. But yesterday's game proved to me that losing Keita and Robertson blew past him like he was nothing showed that he doesn't have the legs to win this league as a midfielder. 

His weaknesses has to be covered by a 2016-2018 Kante type player and having an exceptional CB that can read the play. 

I like the guy but it's clear that going forward he's not good enough to help us go where we want to be. 

An apt comparison would be KdB, say what you like about him but KdB actually puts a shift in defense as well when he's needed

Edited July 23, 20205 yr by Deino

16 minutes ago, Deino said:

He is good at keeping the tempo to a decent pace and slowing things down. He's what you bring on to shut the game up and kill the opposition with possession. 

He'll be great in Italy and Spain. But yesterday's game proved to me that losing Keita and Robertson blew past him like he was nothing showed that he doesn't have the legs to win this league as a midfielder. 

His weaknesses has to be covered by a 2016-2018 Kante type player and having an exceptional CB that can read the play. 

I like the guy but it's clear that going forward he's not good enough to help us go where we want to be. 

An apt comparison would be KdB, say what you like about him but KdB actually puts a shift in defense as well when he's needed

That Kevin guy looks better I agree 😄

46 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

How many players are good enough to win the league in our squad? Kante is injury prone and can't stop 19 year olds on the counter, Pulisic is still too young so he needs an extra season...That's 0-2 players.

Azpilicueta, James, Zouma, Rudiger, Christensen, Alonso, Kovacic, Kante, Pulisic, Mount, Ruben, CHO, Tammy, Giroud

All of these players are good enough to be part of a title winning squad. 

We need 2 keepers, 1 left back, 1 striker, 2 attacking midfielders and probably a defensive midfielder / centre back. 

Coincidentally. Those are all the transfers we are making this summer. 

I love jorginho. Not sure if he fits. 

Edited July 23, 20205 yr by bisright1

2 hours ago, bisright1 said:

Azpilicueta, James, Zouma, Rudiger, Christensen, Alonso, Kovacic, Kante, Pulisic, Mount, Ruben, CHO, Tammy, Giroud

All of these players are good enough to be part of a title winning squad. 

We need 2 keepers, 1 left back, 1 striker, 2 attacking midfielders and probably a defensive midfielder / centre back. 

Coincidentally. Those are all the transfers we are making this summer. 

I love jorginho. Not sure if he fits. 

How loose is that, you're saying our first team is a league winning squad, what a way to put it down, as if Jorginho can't play a role at all but pretty much everyone else can, sure that really sounds like an honest opinion lmao

Get rid of a Jorginho and everyone else magically win the league...Oh I wish that was even half true.

Show some respect to the vice captain that transformed the way we play last season, without him Sarri never finishes in top 4, never.

Edited July 23, 20205 yr by Gol15

12 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

How loose is that, you're saying our first team is a league winning squad, what a way to put it down, as if Jorginho can't play a role at all but pretty much everyone else can, sure that really sounds like an honest opinion lmao

Get rid of a Jorginho and everyone else magically win the league...Oh I wish that was even half true.

Show some respect to the vice captain that transformed the way we play last season, without him Sarri never finishes in top 4, never.

That's really not my intent. 

I think we sign a keeper, a left back, werner, ziyech and havertz and we have a title winning squad. 

I don't see how Jorginho fits into Lampard's system and I think he gets sold. 

I love Jorginho. I think he's great. 

38 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

That's really not my intent. 

I think we sign a keeper, a left back, werner, ziyech and havertz and we have a title winning squad. 

I don't see how Jorginho fits into Lampard's system and I think he gets sold. 

I love Jorginho. I think he's great. 

The question was how many title winning players we have right now that are THAT good, by that standard alone...and you listed out our whole first team almost wtf bro...

None of those players would be in the starting lineup for Liverpool, for Man City maybe Pulisic and Kovacic and that's it, 0-2 players can MAYBE, hold up to that standard as of right now.

If Jorginho doesn't fit then more than half of the players you listed don't fit as well, it's the obvious observation that when it comes to Jorginho the standards are very much different from anyone else. Not even Kante stopped the counter attacks we suffered this season, fact is the only thing he did was to commit fouls in a dangerous area in front of our box and he's basically known as a stopper that's what he does but he couldn't do it this season, if he can't do it, do you think that there is a player that will live up to your expectations there? I doubt it.

These are some stats from the PL this season so far when it comes down to our squad only:

Total passes made; Azpilicueta first, Jorginho second. Captain-vice captain running the show with more responsibility.
Total touches made; Azpilicueta first, Jorginho second. Captain and vice-captain running the show with more responsibility.
Totaly tackles made; Azpilicueta first, Jorginho second. Captain and vice-captain running the show with more responsibility.

In a team where he has been our most consistent midfielder and where our veteran Dave has been the best player for us this season, somehow Jorginho doesn't fit.
Show me how is Kante better than him this season, show me 1 thing that Kante did better than him this season if you can, you won't be able to find it...I tried already, the one thing that Kante has over Jorginho is the amount of errors leading to goal! But yes, ONLY Jorginho doesn't fit.

Jorginho has the second most passes made in our team and he has made the most passes into the final third, only Norwood from Sheffield has made more passes into the final third than Jorginho in the whole league.

The fact is, you're not even making this claim for me or Jorginho, it's Lampard that made him Vice-Captain and it's Lampard that has denied 10 times when asked if it's over for Jorginho.

In all honesty, I don't even care anymore I can easily see Kante,Jorginho and whoever else getting sold part from Pulisic and say what's done is done, I want Havertz anyway...but you're saying that Lampard is basically an idiot for playing Jorginho 26 games as a starter this season and 30 in total in the league, when he doesn't even fit, either Lampard is an idiot or you're wrong.

Edited July 23, 20205 yr by Gol15

13 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

The question was how many title winning players we have right now that are THAT good, by that standard alone...and you listed out our whole first team almost wtf bro...

None of those players would be in the starting lineup for Liverpool, for Man City maybe Pulisic and Kovacic and that's it, 0-2 players can MAYBE, hold up to that standard as of right now.

If Jorginho doesn't fit then more than half of the players you listed don't fit as well, it's the obvious observation that when it comes to Jorginho the standards are very much different from anyone else. Not even Kante stopped the counter attacks we suffered this season, fact is the only thing he did was to commit fouls in a dangerous area in front of our box and he's basically known as a stopper that's what he does but he couldn't do it this season, if he can't do it, do you think that there is a player that will live up to your expectations there? I doubt it.

These are some stats from the PL this season so far when it comes down to our squad only:

Total passes made; Azpilicueta first, Jorginho second. Captain-vice captain running the show with more responsibility.
Total touches made; Azpilicueta first, Jorginho second. Captain and vice-captain running the show with more responsibility.
Totaly tackles made; Azpilicueta first, Jorginho second. Captain and vice-captain running the show with more responsibility.

In a team where he has been our most consistent midfielder and where our veteran Dave has been the best player for us this season, somehow Jorginho doesn't fit.
Show me how is Kante better than him this season, show me 1 thing that Kante did better than him this season if you can, you won't be able to find it...I tried already, the one thing that Kante has over Jorginho is the amount of errors leading to goal! But yes, ONLY Jorginho doesn't fit.

Jorginho has the second most passes made in our team and he has made the most passes into the final third, only Norwood from Sheffield has made more passes into the final third than Jorginho in the whole league.

The fact is, you're not even making this claim for me or Jorginho, it's Lampard that made him Vice-Captain and it's Lampard that has denied 10 times when asked if it's over for Jorginho.

In all honesty, I don't even care anymore I can easily see Kante,Jorginho and whoever else getting sold part from Pulisic and say what's done is done, I want Havertz anyway...but you're saying that Lampard is basically an idiot for playing Jorginho 26 games as a starter this season and 30 in total in the league, when he doesn't even fit, either Lampard is an idiot or you're wrong.

I'm really not the person to argue with about jorginho. I'm not against you here. 

10 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

I'm really not the person to argue with about jorginho. I'm not against you here. 

Ok sorry.

When everything said and done, he wasn't a bad player for us at all. Rice is younger but I doubt that he will so immediately influential as Jorginho has been in the past 2 seasons, if we lacked creativity we won't find it in Rice at all, we will rely on Mount, Ziyech and Pulisic so not much will change in that aspect, Kovacic must start shooting more.

19 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

When everything said and done, he wasn't a bad player for us at all. Rice is younger but I doubt that he will so immediately influential as Jorginho has been in the past 2 seasons, if we lacked creativity we won't find it in Rice at all, we will rely on Mount, Ziyech and Pulisic so not much will change in that aspect, Kovacic must start shooting more.

I still think Jorginho is the man, but Lampard doesn't seem to rate him, I think he prefers a player like Rice who's mostly just there to put in tackles. 

23 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

When everything said and done, he wasn't a bad player for us at all. Rice is younger but I doubt that he will so immediately influential as Jorginho has been in the past 2 seasons, if we lacked creativity we won't find it in Rice at all, we will rely on Mount, Ziyech and Pulisic so not much will change in that aspect, Kovacic must start shooting more.

Declan Rice - accurate passes - 39.16

Edited July 29, 20205 yr by the special one

22 minutes ago, the special one said:

Declan Rice - accurate passes - 39.16

Bound to be lower in west ham team that dont play with the ball as much. 

Not that i am advocating for Rice, although im also not agsinst. 

How did your man Joelinton do this year, i remember you pushing for him a while ago, and he has been a massive flop so far looking at his goals. I guess you win some, you lose some. 

Just now, big blue said:

Bound to be lower in west ham team that dont play with the ball as much. 

Not that i am advocating for Rice, although im also not agsinst. 

How did your man Joelinton do this year, i remember you pushing for him a while ago, and he has been a massive flop so far looking at his goals. I guess you win some, you lose some. 

Isn't that Callum Wilson's mum, as well?

Just now, yorkleyblue said:

Isn't that Callum Wilson's mum, as well?

Maybe, i know he likes Lewis Cook alot.  

Just now, big blue said:

Bound to be lower in west ham team that dont play with the ball as much. 

Not that i am advocating for Rice, although im also not agsinst. 

How did your man Joelinton do this year, i remember you pushing for him a while ago, and he has been a massive flop so far looking at his goals. I guess you win some, you lose some. 

That is true, don't get me wrong I'm not against signing Rice I just think to get the best from Havertz and Pulisic we need a fluid midfield.

Newcastle finished 13th when they were expected to be battling relegation. Who was up front? Joelinton. 😛

Just now, the special one said:

That is true, don't get me wrong I'm not against signing Rice I just think to get the best from Havertz and Pulisic we need a fluid midfield.

Newcastle finished 13th when they were expected to be battling relegation. Who was up front? Joelinton. 😛

i thought that was you! 

I agree on Rice, im still on the fence as to whether or not he is good enough on the ball to play there at the top end of the table. He seems to have a good mentality though, and could end up at centre back long term, so i think it would be a decent signing regardless.

On 23/07/2020 at 08:40, Gol15 said:

Show some respect to the vice captain that transformed the way we play last season, without him Sarri never finishes in top 4, never.

I think you forgot how fans were disrepecting Jorginho last season - remember whenever he touch the ball he was booed

20 minutes ago, robdog said:

I think you forgot how fans were disrepecting Jorginho last season - remember whenever he touch the ball he was booed

It's cause Sarri wasn't popular and his reputation reflected on Jorginho since he was his player...I think.