28 minutes ago, Dixons said:

Again, up until this season Kante would have been a contender for player of the year,with both the writers and players. Do you honestly think he was anywhere close to being one of the best this year?

He plays a completely different role where his non stop defensive effort isn't as prominent, because we play a completely different way, having huge amounts of possession. In fact last season was more akin to how he was used by Leicester, if anything that first season for us was an outlier in his play as he was used much more defensively. He has still be excellent all season for us, saying he has had hardly any above 7 out of 10 games is blatantly bollocks. 

5 minutes ago, ducavis said:

A centre back again? Shouldn’t have given Luiz a new contract then. We have Rudiger, Christensen, Luiz & an excellent Zouma returning from loan.

Midfield; yes we need a No 10 desperately who can create & score. 

We also desperately need a winger who can replace Hazard’s output. Willian & Pedro won’t cut it. All this assumes we defer the ban.

The new contract is fine but he's 32, we can't expect that Rudiger will be playing 40 games next season and we have all seen that our defense can be really weak. In all honesty I forgot about Zouma, do you think that he can be the backup we need? 

Pulisic is coming and Hudson-Odoi is 1 year older, maybe we can get Coutinho (though I don't like him personally)?

Maybe the best move is to go with Tammy and Morata and hope for the best and if we can buy new players, focus on the midfield or maybe even a full back?

9 minutes ago, dkw said:

He plays a completely different role where his non stop defensive effort isn't as prominent, because we play a completely different way, having huge amounts of possession. In fact last season was more akin to how he was used by Leicester, if anything that first season for us was an outlier in his play as he was used much more defensively. He has still be excellent all season for us, saying he has had hardly any above 7 out of 10 games is blatantly bollocks. 

I think this is the point he's making.

Plays in a very different role now and that has reduced him from being the best midfielder in the league to someone who's not the best midfielder in the league anymore.
For me Kante has had a good season this year, but we have been used to seeing Kante as consistently great and i don't think anyone could argue he's been that this season.

 

4 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

The new contract is fine but he's 32, we can't expect that Rudiger will be playing 40 games next season and we have all seen that our defense can be really weak. In all honesty I forgot about Zouma, do you think that he can be the backup we need? 

Pulisic is coming and Hudson-Odoi is 1 year older, maybe we can get Coutinho (though I don't like him personally)?

Maybe the best move is to go with Tammy and Morata and hope for the best and if we can buy new players, focus on the midfield or maybe even a full back?

I think Zouma can definitely be the CB that we add.  Like you said, Rüdiger won’t likely play all of the games.  DL-Rüdiger-Christensen-Zouma is a pretty good set of CBs.

28 minutes ago, Dixons said:

Again, up until this season Kante would have been a contender for player of the year,with both the writers and players. Do you honestly think he was anywhere close to being one of the best this year?

He plays a completely different role where his non stop defensive effort isn't as prominent, because we play a completely different way, having huge amounts of possession. In fact last season was more akin to how he was used by Leicester, if anything that first season for us was an outlier in his play as he was used much more defensively. He has still be excellent all season for us, saying he has had hardly any above 7 out of 10 games is blatantly bollocks. 

4 minutes ago, Sindre said:

I think this is the point he's making.

Plays in a very different role now and that has reduced him from being the best midfielder in the league to someone who's not the best midfielder in the league anymore.
 For me Kante has had a good season this year, but we have been used to seeing Kante as consistently great and i don't think anyone could argue he's been that this season.

 

My argument and I think its what @dkw is trying to make. Is that Kante cant be the outstanding player he was for us before because we are now a better team with more possession. 

We have much higher % of the ball and therefore how would we even see Kante break up play? I'd like to see us consistently use Kante in a 4-2-3-1 alongside Jorginho when playing the better sides, but against the bottom half, we need Kante battling the opposition in the dangerous areas. 

If Kante was put in the position on the pitch where Jorginho plays, he wouldn't look out of place, but he wouldn't look like a world beater simply because he wouldn't have the same opportunities to break up play as he had under the defensive systems we played under Conte. He also isn't as quick on the ball as Jorginho is so he would actually look worse than before - he would be targeted. 

Sarri plays him further forward because he wants Kante to break up the play in the opposition half - which he does well. Again, we don't see it A LOT because we usually have the ball. But we would rather we win the ball back there than win the ball back in our own half. 

9 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

My argument and I think its what @dkw is trying to make. Is that Kante cant be the outstanding player he was for us before because we are now a better team with more possession. 

The difference is possession hasn’t been that big.

We had 58% possession on average this season (in the league) while it was 55% average while Conte was here. The difference isn’t great.

I am not sure what you consider when you say “better team” but we are certainly a worse team than we were at our best under Conte with Kante in his natural position.

But yes, there isn’t really a “best” position for Kante in our current setup as none really suits him. But with Hazard now leaving I’d suggest we’d be better off trying to get the most out of our second-best player (after Hazard).

 

2 hours ago, Sindre said:

But yes, there isn’t really a “best” position for Kante in our current setup as none really suits him. But with Hazard now leaving I’d suggest we’d be better off trying to get the most out of our second-best player (after Hazard).

 

Why?

Kante doesn't score or create goals. Why build your team around a defensive minded midfielder? We'd have to completely change our style of play - again - and it would only net us less goals conceded (if anything). Considering how good our defensive record was this year (even better if you take out Bournemouth +City) , it's not offering much of a benefit.

 

On 30/05/2019 at 20:11, Ernie_blue said:

Not sure how one good game means we should now sign Kovacic, I think it's still the hype of winning a trophy. Take the season as a whole and his been absolutely awful, he cant even finish a game let alone an assist or goal. I know what people are saying about potential and if he had showed the same form from last night over the last 3 months then fair play, I cant get that excited over one game.

It wasn't even one good game Ernie. For the first 45 minutes he was the worst player on the pitch by miles. Kovaflick.

2nd half he had a 15 minute spell where he was involved in some of our best attacking play, and that is something he hasn't been able to do before over the entire season. 

Lot of blue tinted perspective on his performance I feel. Probably because we won. But I really, really hope we don't extend the loan on the basis of a good 15 minutes and Robbie Savage's match opinion.

15 hours ago, ducavis said:

I get the point he is making though; unless you have a forward 3 like Liverpool or a 20 league goal striker like Kane, you can’t afford to setup with a midfield 3 of Jorginho-Kante-Kovacic. The output of this trio ( 6gls 6assists) is less than what David Silva (6gls 8assists) alone produced. 

 

The way I see it, we need to improve our output rather than every time buying a new player. Comparing Kante and Silva is like comparing apples to oranges, they offer different qualities. Why would people sacrifice a WC box to box player just to get a few more goals? We either improve with coaching or we get better attackers. As far as I'm concerned, with Jorginho and Kante, they need to step up their game. If Sarri moves on, then we talk about selling Jorginho as I don't see him work with any non-possession based tactics

Kovacic just needs to learn from Lamps in how to score and how to time his runs into the box. If he can add that to his game then we'll have a pretty solid player there.

So apparently we are willing to pay 35mill euros for him and Real want 50mill euros. We are happy to waiting till June 30th and risk not being able to sign him.

Personally if we get him great of not not fussed.

Simon Johnson from the Standard suggests we are reconsidering the deal with Sarri's imminent departure. 

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea/chelsea-have-second-thoughts-over-permanent-matteo-kovacic-deal-a4163206.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true

Now the club could of course be feeding that into the press to get a better deal out of Madrid, but I would say that is a positive sign. For mine he hasn't done enough to justify the fee and with Sarri on the way out we won't really require specific Jorginho role cover (if he stays). 

I'd keep him in the team just so we can continue subbing him on(or off) for Barkley each game

4 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

Simon Johnson from the Standard suggests we are reconsidering the deal with Sarri's imminent departure. 

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea/chelsea-have-second-thoughts-over-permanent-matteo-kovacic-deal-a4163206.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true

Now the club could of course be feeding that into the press to get a better deal out of Madrid, but I would say that is a positive sign. For mine he hasn't done enough to justify the fee and with Sarri on the way out we won't really require specific Jorginho role cover (if he stays). 

We should have second thoughts......Did he look like a 50 million pound player last season?  If someone offered us 50 million for him, would we bite their hand off to take the cash?

5 minutes ago, Boston Blue said:

We should have second thoughts......Did he look like a 50 million pound player last season?  If someone offered us 50 million for him, would we bite their hand off to take the cash?

Agree, the worry I have if Kovacic goes back does that mean the impending return of Bakayoko and him around the first team again.

20 minutes ago, chi blue said:

Agree, the worry I have if Kovacic goes back does that mean the impending return of Bakayoko and him around the first team again.

Bakayoko is back no matter what, according to his brother/agent.  Don't see how we can fit in Bakayoko, Kovavcic, Barkley, Mount (if he stays with us), and RLC (when back fit).  

4 hours ago, Boston Blue said:

Bakayoko is back no matter what, according to his brother/agent.  Don't see how we can fit in Bakayoko, Kovavcic, Barkley, Mount (if he stays with us), and RLC (when back fit).  

Of course he is coming back according to his brother/agent. He thought he was playing here this time last year. He should either be loaned or sold. He isn't up to Premier League standard.

I think we need a rotation of 5 plus RLC. For mine the only three that are guaranteed to be here are Kante, Barkley, RLC. The rest depends on the manager. 

6 hours ago, Boston Blue said:

Bakayoko is back no matter what, according to his brother/agent.  Don't see how we can fit in Bakayoko, Kovavcic, Barkley, Mount (if he stays with us), and RLC (when back fit).  

It's easy when you leave out Bakayoko every time!

For me it is either Kovacic, Bakayoko or Mount. I don't even count in Danny Drinker. In reality Kovacic is the only option who knows how we play and has experience. Although he was as useful as a tupee he is an able backup. He was also pretty good in the EL final. 

With the ban I think we are forced to buy him. Which is sad. 

We started last season with 6 centre midfielders plus Drinkwater.

Jorginho, Kante, RLC, Barkley, Fabregas, and Kovacic. 

We can start this season with the 6 centre midfielders, hopefully minus Drinkwater.

Jorginho, Kante, Mount, Barkley, Kovacic, Bakayoko. Maybe RLC will have returned by January, and hopefully by that time, we can find a buyer for Bakayoko. Or maybe, Mount will still need a loan, or maybe Barkley has is sold. 

Numbers wise i think we can have all of them here next season. 

16 hours ago, Boston Blue said:

We should have second thoughts......Did he look like a 50 million pound player last season?  If someone offered us 50 million for him, would we bite their hand off to take the cash?

Mate.. We apparently got offered 60 million for Willian and still didn't take it. 

Jorginho, Kante, Kovacic, Barkley, Ruben, Bakayoko, Stinkwater, Mount and Ampadu? 

Way too many.. 

 

Jorginho and Kante are pretty much our guaranteed starters, which leaves all the rest to fight for the 3rd and final spot. 

Kovacic can leave us and so can Stan. Mount I think can do 1 more year on loan which leaves us with Ruben, Barkley, Bakayoko and Ampadu which I think is more than enough. 

 

Next season we can think about offloading Barkley (if he doesnt improve), Bakayoko (if he carries on being terrible for us) and let Mount join the squad and can think about another signing.

 

Not needed, not for the price over 35m. Never had an end product, he's great if he can run with the ball, great in small spaces but not good enough for the price that Real Madrid wants.

Sarri rates him but he's going to Torino...

Good squad player for me, not worth what Real want for him.