1 hour ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Ah the old "I know what I'm watching" gem. 

My original comment was about Higuain's scoring contribution. He was bought in to help with our lack of goals... If he's not scoring said goals he's not doing the primary job he wa?s bought in for. 

My original post was "Really need him to start scoring with some regularity because right now I don't think we've been any better off with Higuain than when Morata was here". 

So you might not watch the stats but they reinforce my argument about the goal scoring merits of the two players in a Chelsea shirt. 

Its irrelevant if a striker isnt scoring if we arent creating any chances. I was just pointing out all your evidence was based on the stats of goals. Which is hard to quantify because since January 1st we've struggled to create anything as a team.

The reason I disliked Morata wasn't because he didn't score loads of goals, his goal scoring record was okay. It was just that he didn't do enough to warrant the odd goal he scored. He was constantly offside and brushed off the ball far too easily and moaned all the time. He just looked unhappy. 

1 hour ago, bisright1 said:

Its irrelevant if a striker isnt scoring if we arent creating any chances. I was just pointing out all your evidence was based on the stats of goals. Which is hard to quantify because since January 1st we've struggled to create anything as a team.

The reason I disliked Morata wasn't because he didn't score loads of goals, his goal scoring record was okay. It was just that he didn't do enough to warrant the odd goal he scored. He was constantly offside and brushed off the ball far too easily and moaned all the time. He just looked unhappy. 

He had two excellent chances against Tottenham, he failed to put either of them on target. He had one or two against City and United too, but his touch let him down. Top strikers only need one chance to score and top strikers create chances for themselves if the others can't create for them.

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

He had two excellent chances against Tottenham, he failed to put either of them on target. He had one or two against City and United too, but his touch let him down. Top strikers only need one chance to score and top strikers create chances for themselves if the others can't create for them.

A top striker can be a player that scores 1 out of 3 chances.

If we just look at the league, Aguero has 87 shots taken and 18 goals scored while Higuain has 13 shots and 2 goals scored so far, so Aguero makes goals in just over 20% of the time he shoots, while Higuain 15% of the time.

Morata had 35 shots before he left and had scored 5 goals, so he had less than 15% in his goal conversion rate compared to the amount of shots he was taking, which makes him a bit worse than Higuain, now it's a bit obvious that shots taken don't need to mean that a real chance was actually created, but we have seen some amazing misses from Morata last season, and since you're saying that a top striker creates a chance by himself...it's fair to say that Morata and Higuain are not really the players we would call as top strikers.

5 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

I mean ignoring the unnecessary passive aggressiveness of your reply what has Higuain to date contributed to the team directly to make us a better side?  

The same reason Eto'o was an improvement on Ba and Torres despite not being spectacular.

He gets the basics right.

He's played mainly big games so far but in the lesser games he has played (we actually played very well first half against Bournemouth) he has allowed us to be a bit more direct and sustain attacks better than we did with Morata up front.

3 hours ago, bisright1 said:

Its irrelevant if a striker isnt scoring if we arent creating any chances. I was just pointing out all your evidence was based on the stats of goals. Which is hard to quantify because since January 1st we've struggled to create anything as a team.

The reason I disliked Morata wasn't because he didn't score loads of goals, his goal scoring record was okay. It was just that he didn't do enough to warrant the odd goal he scored. He was constantly offside and brushed off the ball far too easily and moaned all the time. He just looked unhappy. 

Its not irrelevant he's not scoring , why did we replace morata with higuiain if it doesn't convert to goals.

We have the outlook of M.utd.

with ibrohimavic 30 something with history. Its short term thinking.

Chelsea should have recalled tammy abraham and said to sarri that's what you have now make it work.

 

2 minutes ago, Argo said:

The same reason Eto'o was an improvement on Ba and Torres despite not being spectacular.

He gets the basics right.

He's played mainly big games so far but in the lesser games he has played (we actually played very well first half against Bournemouth) he has allowed us to be a bit more direct and sustain attacks better than we did with Morata up front.

Yep he did. God knows what the score would have been if he didn't. !

We only lost 4.0

10.0.    Maybe.?

5 minutes ago, M.M.B said:

Chelsea should have recalled tammy abraham and said to sarri that's what you have now make it work.

Tammy is better off finishing his loan experience at Villa. Why disrupt his whole season to come struggle with us.

6 minutes ago, Stim said:

Tammy is better off finishing his loan experience at Villa. Why disrupt his whole season to come struggle with us.

Why do you think he would have struggled if he was called back in january.

He is scoring goals for villa, why not us?

 

25 minutes ago, M.M.B said:

Yep he did. God knows what the score would have been if he didn't. !

We only lost 4.0

10.0.    Maybe.?

What point are you trying to make exactly?

10 minutes ago, Argo said:

What point are you trying to make exactly?

Sorry, if I'm being facetious .

My point is we didn't need a 31 year old make shift, when we have a player  on our books that is scoring goals.

I don't think he needed to finish anything with villa.

Its not like he's  doing his gcse.

Oops.

3 hours ago, M.M.B said:

Sorry, if I'm being facetious .

My point is we didn't need a 31 year old make shift, when we have a player  on our books that is scoring goals.

I don't think he needed to finish anything with villa.

Its not like he's  doing his gcse.

Oops.

I'm sorry but i completely disagree.

Bringing him back to be our number 1 striker immediately would put him under great pressure and scrutiny, he would have our whole hopes on his shoulders which is not fair on such a young player at this stage of his career, look at how similar responsibility mentally ruined young Christensen?

The right evolution as far as Tammy is concerned is to have him taking Giroud's spot in the summer and going from there.

31 minutes ago, Argo said:

I'm sorry but i completely disagree.

Bringing him back to be our number 1 striker immediately would put him under great pressure and scrutiny, he would have our whole hopes on his shoulders which is not fair on such a young player at this stage of his career, look at how similar responsibility mentally ruined young Christensen?

The right evolution as far as Tammy is concerned is to have him taking Giroud's spot in the summer and going from there.

I agree, I don't rate Higuain very much, but I don't think Abraham would do any better either. I don't think he is ready yet. He was really poor at Swansea last season and now looks similar to the player he was when he played for Bristol City. There is a massive gulf in class between the Premier League and Championship, which increases even more the higher up the league you go. I think him being on loan at Villa is what he needs right now, and next season, maybe we can make him 2nd choice. I don't think he is ready to be 1st choice though.

From what I've seen, Higuain's instincts look sharp, but I think his body/conditioning lets him down. For a 31 year old striker, moving mid-season from Serie A to PL, the step up in intensity is no joke. On top of that, he got thrown in the deep end with games against Man City, Spurs and Man Utd, all while the entire team has been struggling. 

I'm reserving judgement until after the West Ham game. That should give him a run of games against "easier" opposition. Hopefully the team has turned a corner as well.

I still would still take him over Morata though. Mentally, Morata was just a basketcase and every miss seemed to accelerate a downward spiral that he couldn't recover from. Instead of focusing on scoring his next goal, I feel like he would get hung up on silly things that happen on the pitch, some small perceived injustice that he would try to make a big deal out of. For example, if he felt he didn't get a call from the ref, he would flop harder the next time to try to make a point? 

Morata is finished at Chelsea for me. Towards the end, it seemed like he was even blaming the club for not supporting him enough, when in fact he had been given every opportunity to succeed. You can't have someone with that kind of mentality leading the line. Good riddance and I hope that's the last we see of him. 

7 hours ago, Argo said:

I'm sorry but i completely disagree.

Bringing him back to be our number 1 striker immediately would put him under great pressure and scrutiny, he would have our whole hopes on his shoulders which is not fair on such a young player at this stage of his career, look at how similar responsibility mentally ruined young Christensen?

The right evolution as far as Tammy is concerned is to have him taking Giroud's spot in the summer and going from there.

Well we both have different opinions, and that's what makes this forum work.

It would be boring if we all agreed.

7 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

I agree, I don't rate Higuain very much, but I don't think Abraham would do any better either. I don't think he is ready yet. He was really poor at Swansea last season and now looks similar to the player he was when he played for Bristol City. There is a massive gulf in class between the Premier League and Championship, which increases even more the higher up the league you go. I think him being on loan at Villa is what he needs right now, and next season, maybe we can make him 2nd choice. I don't think he is ready to be 1st choice though.

I think the Swansea thing was purely down to them being god awful. No striker can be successful if you are being fed nothing all game. 

15 hours ago, M.M.B said:

Why do you think he would have struggled if he was called back in january.

He is scoring goals for villa, why not us?

 

Surely you recognise that scoring goals in the premiership is a tad harder than scoring goals in the championship?

I am all for Abraham coming back to us, don't get me wrong, but that wouldn't have been the right play for me, at all. 

Would you have wanted him to be our first choice striker (basically the Higuain role) or would you have seen the benefit of bringing back as having him as an impact sub late on in games? 

 

21 minutes ago, mclovin83 said:

Surely you recognise that scoring goals in the premiership is a tad harder than scoring goals in the championship?

I am all for Abraham coming back to us, don't get me wrong, but that wouldn't have been the right play for me, at all. 

Would you have wanted him to be our first choice striker (basically the Higuain role) or would you have seen the benefit of bringing back as having him as an impact sub late on in games? 

 

No good bringing in Tammy with Eden and Willian on the wings. He'd get no ball facing goal, same as Higuain.

But if your'e talking next season with no Eden and Willian, with CHO and Pulisic on the wings, then i would plump for Tammy/Higuain rotating.

5 minutes ago, coco said:

No good bringing in Tammy with Eden and Willian on the wings. He'd get no ball facing goal, same as Higuain.

But if your'e talking next season with no Eden and Willian, with CHO and Pulisic on the wings, then i would plump for Tammy/Higuain rotating.

so if hazard & willian are still here next season what do we do with tammy abraham.

29 minutes ago, M.M.B said:

so if hazard & willian are still here next season what do we do with tammy abraham.

leave him out on loan but with a PL team. but imo both eden and willian will leave.

4 hours ago, bisright1 said:

I think the Swansea thing was purely down to them being god awful. No striker can be successful if you are being fed nothing all game. 

He was part of the reason why they were awful though, and that is why he would often get dropped from the first 11. Every striker needs help from their team mates, but you can't be completely reliant on them. Hopefully he has improved since last season though. From what I have seen of him, he does seem to be doing more by himself at Villa.

1 hour ago, coco said:

No good bringing in Tammy with Eden and Willian on the wings. He'd get no ball facing goal, same as Higuain.

But if your'e talking next season with no Eden and Willian, with CHO and Pulisic on the wings, then i would plump for Tammy/Higuain rotating.

It doesn't matter what winger is in the squad next season, Tammy deserves to be a part of the team.

Because he's scored some goals in the Championship? Absolutely not.

Let's hope he scores some goals against the lesser teams and earn us some points, and the loan deal will be worthwhile. He's no longer an elite striker, has and will struggle against quality teams, it's those games against lesser ones he should earn his money. Yes, has hasn't got the best of services, but he pretty much messed up every half chance against better teams for us.

Edited March 2, 20197 yr by icecoolguy22

11 minutes ago, Luca Vialli said:

Because he's scored some goals in the Championship? Absolutely not.

20 goals, deserves to play for Chelsea next season. End of story.

34 minutes ago, Luca Vialli said:

Because he's scored some goals in the Championship? Absolutely not.

He's scored 20 goals so far this season do they count for nothing.?

What else is it he needs to do.