It is looking like Frank is struggling and making mind boggling decisions.

I was shocked when he recently said in the press conference we had exhausted attacking options to death in training, if this is really the best I am reminded of something Wellington said about Napoleon after Waterloo,

'He's just a pounder (artillery man) after all.

Annoyances,

1. Kovacic - Tammy and earlier in the season Kova would find Tammy by dribbling through the lines and passing towards Tammy.

Tammy with his back to goal holds off two defenders and either gets the free-kick or finds Willian running past his marker into space and the attack is on with Tammy running forward to receive the return and chance on goal. I don't recall this happening since Kante returned. 

2. Wide player Willian - Reece - normally down the ring wing.

The winger is trying to cross near the bye-line and there are two options due to the dynamics of being under pressure and trying to cross the ball from a wide position, the ball either comes on the ground parallel with the bye-line or is a deep out-swinger cross to the far post. Tammy doesn't move, he stays rooted with two defenders on him, recently 2/3 of these crosses go straight along the ground and if he runs towards the near post he has a good chance of an angled shot - that is coaching!

3. The CHO corner cut-in, yesterday showed a poor choice of play and when not to use it. We have already scored with a clever angled cross thanks to Azpi, why in injury time with probably our last play and every player in the box does CHO decide to try and outshine the Willian special with a cut-in and direct shot. Every team we face expects this and closes it down. He misses - game over. Poor choice at that time this must be coached.

4. One-two-threes

Not sure about my use of my descriptive term yet what I mean is this, a simple one-two won't open up a defence, yet if the one-two is simulated yet the pass goes to a third angled runner who then finds the on running second payer we normally have a chance on goal. This is what needs to be coached and will create chances.

5. Kante cannot not be involved in steps 1-4 he will slow it down and the opportunities will fade away.

We drew with Arsenal yesterday no shame in that, though we could have done so much better with a little more directed coaching and better player selection, IMO.

Frank is looking very pedestrian just now.

Think he got it pretty much totally wrong yesterday.

• Started with 3 defensive midfielders, leaving us with just 3 attackers.
• As soon as we got the goal and Arsenal got a player sent off, we should have been increasing the pace, pressing them more, putting them under pressure, but we slowed everything down
  • He should have been thinking as early as HT about switching one of the midfield 3 for Mount, who presses and chases more, but he left it as it was
• Then when Arsenal got back into the game and were in the driving seat, he makes the changes and brings on 2 more attacking midfielders, leaving us exposed to their counter attacks. The change was far too late and should have been made when we were winning, not when Arsenal were causing us all sorts of problems.

I don't know what he says to these players, but the slowness of their play is embarrasing to watch at times. Not just the sideways passing back and forth, but the jogging back to defend and jogging forward to halfheartedly attack.

I did not expect much this season, but you have to expect progress as time goes by. Yet we seem to be worse than we were at the start of the season. I can't see us magically becoming much better next season, unless we make some signings, if we're seeing no signs of any progress throughout this season and seeing the same mistakes over and over.

Frank being found out. Our form since our wining run is really poor. He's making very bad decisions. Worst of all, we do not look like a team that is coached well. You look at Leicester and you see they're being coached well, day in day out. That's the difference. Yes we're fourth and that's to be congratulated but we'd put ourselves in a great position to claim top four and Frank looks like he's incapable of capitalising. Bar the odd performance, I've been very unimpressed with him lately, particularly with his midfield choices. Early days for him as a coach and we all hope he learns on the job but right now there's clearly an awful lot of room of improvement. Still, it's what we signed up for and we have to be patient and give him a chance. It's just not good enough at the moment.

37 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

Frank being found out. Our form since our wining run is really poor. He's making very bad decisions. Worst of all, we do not look like a team that is coached well. You look at Leicester and you see they're being coached well, day in day out. That's the difference. Yes we're fourth and that's to be congratulated but we'd put ourselves in a great position to claim top four and Frank looks like he's incapable of capitalising. Bar the odd performance, I've been very unimpressed with him lately, particularly with his midfield choices. Early days for him as a coach and we all hope he learns on the job but right now there's clearly an awful lot of room of improvement. Still, it's what we signed up for and we have to be patient and give him a chance. It's just not good enough at the moment.

We can be patient, though the press will slowly apply the pressure.

For me he needs to make a big decision, gets it right and his managerial career takes off, get's it wrong and he won't get another top job for some time.

We are talking about personal courage and vision, for me.

48 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

Frank being found out.

That suggests he's some kind of fraud,  he's just a young manager on a learning curve, made difficult by the clubs previous transfer cock ups Baka zap drink morata kepa emerson..., plus the transfer ban. I dont think Pep or Klopp would of done much better with these players.

But we can't forget our earlier successes in the season, our youngsters scored the first ten goals if i remember right, then Pulisic chipped in when he got his chance. But the seniors have come up short, we cant keep relying on these kids, Jorginho, Kovacic, Kante, Barkley, Kepa, Emerson, Rudiger, Pedro, Michy, Giroud,....none of the seniors have shown up this season, were just paying them a living for zero back.

When Frank has replaced those players, then we can truly hold him to account, but not until.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, coco said:

Jorginho, Kovacic, Kante, Barkley, Kepa, Emerson, Rudiger, Pedro, Michy, Giroud,....none of the seniors have shown up this season, were just paying them a living for zero back.

I don't think the first two you mention deserve to be mentioned with the others. They were fantastic together up until November and both clear candidates for POTS until Lampard broke up the successful midfield-pairing and then it's gone downhill since.

1 hour ago, coco said:

That suggests he's some kind of fraud,  he's just a young manager on a learning curve, made difficult by the clubs previous transfer cock ups Baka zap drink morata kepa emerson..., plus the transfer ban. I dont think Pep or Klopp would of done much better with these players.

But we can't forget our earlier successes in the season, our youngsters scored the first ten goals if i remember right, then Pulisic chipped in when he got his chance. But the seniors have come up short, we cant keep relying on these kids, Jorginho, Kovacic, Kante, Barkley, Kepa, Emerson, Rudiger, Pedro, Michy, Giroud,....none of the seniors have shown up this season, were just paying them a living for zero back.

When Frank has replaced those players, then we can truly hold him to account, but not until.

 

You can get found out as a novice rather than a fraud. I don't think Frank's a fraud at all, but he is very green, and it's showing in my opinion. I don't think pinning everything on the older players is fair. In fact I've always been very sceptical when people start blaming players. Some of those older players you've listed I rate, others not, but with the squad we have, recent performances and results should be a lot better. Hopefully it's a learning curve for him and he will improve, especially once he starts signing his own players, but what's evident right now is that he has a lot to learn.

3 minutes ago, Sindre said:

I don't think the first two you mention deserve to be mentioned with the others. They were fantastic together up until November and both clear candidates for POTS until Lampard broke up the successful midfield-pairing and then it's gone downhill since.

Thats your opinion and fair enough they have not been terrible for us like the rest of the list.

But thats not enough for me. They offer little to zero in the offensive phases, no assists, no goals, no key passes, its all a bit lacking.

I think he got outcoached yesterday. 

I completely got the starting line-up, the best one we could've went with given the circumstances. But a failure to adapt to circumstances. Arteta adapted, his team went down to 10 men, he got his only CB to warmup, as soon as he saw that his team were playing really well, hell, even better than we were despite going down, he decided to sit Holding down and carry on with the way they're playing. What did Frank do? Nothing. Stuck with the same team, didn't adapt to the circumstances where we needed to pile the pressure on, didn't take a left back off who was on a yellow, is a defensive liability and against one of the most expensive signings of the summer. We had the luxury of taking Emerson off for Alonso, how would it have hurt? Instead it cost us badly, Emerson is afraid of making any tackles, refuses to make the tactical foul because he's on a yellow, rightly so but not the point. Anyone else and that equaliser doesn't happen, Martinelli gets fouled and we're still at 1-0. 

Martinelli was also the player who was going to be subbed for Holding, until Arteta saw that Arsenal were doing fine and decided to keep him on. So, what does Frank do in the 2nd half? Takes off Kovacic instead of Kante, then Kante later, what on earth... I'm obviously not a manager but I'm just baffled by his decision making on Kovacic lately, did he release Lampards nudes or something? 

Bottom line, good starting line-up, but failure to adapt to the circumstances. 

Edited January 22, 20206 yr by Slojo

3 minutes ago, coco said:

Thats your opinion and fair enough they have not been terrible for us like the rest of the list.

But thats not enough for me. They offer little to zero in the offensive phases, no assists, no goals, no key passes, its all a bit lacking.

I very much disagree. Between them they gave us a lot offensively.

I don't think it's a coincidence that we played our best football this season with them in midfield. We were scoring goals for fun and they were controlling the games from midfield. It's not just about pure assists or goals. Controlling the tempo and quick passing to create space for example is things that we had when they played together.

 

 

8 minutes ago, coco said:

Thats your opinion and fair enough they have not been terrible for us like the rest of the list.

But thats not enough for me. They offer little to zero in the offensive phases, no assists, no goals, no key passes, its all a bit lacking.

Jorginho and Kovacic have been. 

Frank has been responsible for some bad results but last night isn't on him in my opinion, you simply can't legislate for stats like that and not winning. Frank has over egged the chances we created and wasted in the bad results over December but it very much a legimate excuse last night as the graph below shows.

Edited January 22, 20206 yr by Argo

1 minute ago, Argo said:

Frank has been responsible for some bad results but last night isn't on him in my opinion, you simply can't legislate for stats like that? Frank has over egged the chances we created and wasted in the bad results over December but it very much a legimate excuse last night as the graph below shows.

Fair enough, but would you have kept Emerson on after half time when he was on a yellow and against an in-form Pepe? We had the luxury of playing Alonso instead, we should've done it, and that's not hindsight, people including myself were screaming it at the time. Whenever a referee sends a player off on the other team, you must be extra careful because they always look to even the playing field, Emerson became an ultra-liability after that. 

8 minutes ago, coco said:

Thats your opinion and fair enough they have not been terrible for us like the rest of the list.

But thats not enough for me. They offer little to zero in the offensive phases, no assists, no goals, no key passes, its all a bit lacking.

They are not meant to provide assists or goals in the style of football he is trying to install though, in fact I would argue ideally he is a DM short & getting rid of Jorginho to having the ideal midfield. When perfected the ball shouldn’t be spending so much time in the centre as we are seeing now, it should be getting recycled back to the flanks as quickly as possible. Your midfielders are there to press the ball and cover for your fullbacks when they get caught further up the pitch. The reason it keeps coming back into the centre is primarily because he doesn’t have the Players and he is failing to communicate how he wants them to play.

Breaking down teams centrally is getting harder & harder by the week, everyone's getting more & more compact in their defensive & middle 3rds which also means teams have limited access to your fullbacks. In comes the playmaker fullback. With their starting positions deep means no opponent in their right mind is going to man-mark your fullbacks, from there they can make under/over-lap/3rdMan runs facilitated by CMs & wingers, but someone has to cover in behind so the marathon CM is the new 'false' fullback.

As more teams jump on the elaborate play bandwagon means high energetic forwards + athletic midfielders are the key to winning the ball higher & closer to the opponent's goal so you don't have to bother - wait for it - building the back.

As more teams apply the Klopp blueprint because it's practical & cheaper i.e PnP midfield, playmaking fullbacks etc, less & less teams will be willing to splash £80m on technical attacking midfielders. This trend happened already with old school #10s aka trequartistas.

That suggests he's some kind of fraud,  he's just a young manager on a learning curve, made difficult by the clubs previous transfer cock ups Baka zap drink morata kepa emerson..., plus the transfer ban. I dont think Pep or Klopp would of done much better with these players.

But we can't forget our earlier successes in the season, our youngsters scored the first ten goals if i remember right, then Pulisic chipped in when he got his chance. But the seniors have come up short, we cant keep relying on these kids, Jorginho, Kovacic, Kante, Barkley, Kepa, Emerson, Rudiger, Pedro, Michy, Giroud,....none of the seniors have shown up this season, were just paying them a living for zero back.

When Frank has replaced those players, then we can truly hold him to account, but not until.

 

 

 

I think Kloop would be doing better Pep hasn't proved anything with average players so he probably struggle but anyone thinking proven managers with average players wouldn't be doing better just don't want to address the fact that Lampard is showing signs on being out of his depth.

 

I am still fully behind him, he's still learning on the job, still has bags of potential but currently he looks like the least convincing at this moment in time and he is starting to show signs that he doesn't know how to turn this around which is worrying because even with class players in every position what is the guarantee he can get them to play together.

 

Granted no manager can absolutely guarantee success but you have a better chance with a proven one.

13 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Jorginho and Kovacic have been. 

1 league goal each from open play, 5 assists between them (CHO has 5 already), not enough by any means.

Some people will excuse them any offensive blame, they dont blame them for leaking goals either, both have a bit of a cushy number if you ask me.

16 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I think he got outcoached yesterday. 

I completely got the starting line-up, the best one we could've went with given the circumstances. But a failure to adapt to circumstances. Arteta adapted, his team went down to 10 men, he got his only CB to warmup, as soon as he saw that his team were playing really well, hell, even better than we were despite going down, he decided to sit Holding down and carry on with the way they're playing. What did Frank do? Nothing. Stuck with the same team, didn't adapt to the circumstances where we needed to pile the pressure on, didn't take a left back off who was on a yellow, is a defensive liability and against one of the most expensive signings of the summer. We had the luxury of taking Emerson off for Alonso, how would it have hurt? Instead it cost us badly, Emerson is afraid of making any tackles, refuses to make the tactical foul because he's on a yellow, rightly so but not the point. Anyone else and that equaliser doesn't happen, Martinelli gets fouled and we're still at 1-0. 

Martinelli was also the player who was going to be subbed for Holding, until Arteta saw that Arsenal were doing fine and decided to keep him on. So, what does Frank do in the 2nd half? Takes off Kovacic instead of Kante, then Kante later, what on earth... I'm obviously not a manager but I'm just baffled by his decision making on Kovacic lately, did he release Lampards nudes or something? 

Bottom line, good starting line-up, but failure to adapt to the circumstances. 

Arteta didn't make that sub because Xhaka did a surprisingly decent job as a makeshift CB. In fact there were suggestions from some commentators that he might have finally found a position for Xhaka. That being said I agree that we should have taken the game to them more at 1-0 with the extra player. Certainly we had the momentum right after going a goal up and had dominated the game up to that point. We seemed a little unsure about whether to stick or twist at that point and handed the initiative to Arsenal. I can understand why we might have looked a little unsure of how to handle Arsenal for the rest of that half but we should have regrouped and come out with a clear plan in the second half. Instead it felt too conservative. I also would have taken Emerson off with his yellow card and was worried about the ref leveling things up.  I am no fan of Emerson but I thought he actually had a half decent first half apart from his yellow. Second half he was awful but by no means the only one. I would also have had concerns about Alonso defensively but I think he would have offered us some options going forward. Had we included Lamptey on the bench we could have brought him on and moved Azpi over to the left too.

4 minutes ago, coco said:

1 league goal each from open play, 5 assists between them (CHO has 5 already), not enough by any means.

Some people will excuse them any offensive blame, they dont blame them for leaking goals either, both have a bit of a cushy number if you ask me.

CHO plays higher up the pitch coco... Come on. 

Kovacic and Jorginho were two of our best players, almost everything went through them, using goal/assists stats on midfielders is a poor argument. 

8 minutes ago, Brutos said:

I think Kloop would be doing better Pep hasn't proved anything with average players so he probably struggle but anyone thinking proven managers with average players wouldn't be doing better just don't want to address the fact that Lampard is showing signs on being out of his depth.

 

I am still fully behind him, he's still learning on the job, still has bags of potential but currently he looks like the least convincing at this moment in time and he is starting to show signs that he doesn't know how to turn this around which is worrying because even with class players in every position what is the guarantee he can get them to play together.

 

Granted no manager can absolutely guarantee success but you have a better chance with a proven one.

Disagree on Klopp. Remind yourself of his first season or 2 with Liverpool when he inherited a much better squad than we currently have. Also he was backed with numerous signings from when he joined, many of which did not work out, before he reached the current level of success. Many on here would have been calling for Klopp to be fired after the first season or 2, if he was our manager. Many Liverpool fans wanted him out before last season's improvement.

3 minutes ago, Slojo said:

CHO plays higher up the pitch coco... Come on. 

Kovacic and Jorginho were two of our best players, almost everything went through them, using goal/assists stats on midfielders is a poor argument. 

Kovacic and Jorginho have been at their most effective this season when combined with a more attacking midfielder like Mount or Barkley. When Kante plays alongside them in a midfield 3 we don't carry enough attacking threat from midfield.

11 minutes ago, Brutos said:

I think Kloop would be doing better Pep hasn't proved anything with average players so he probably struggle but anyone thinking proven managers with average players wouldn't be doing better just don't want to address the fact that Lampard is showing signs on being out of his depth.

 

I am still fully behind him, he's still learning on the job, still has bags of potential but currently he looks like the least convincing at this moment in time and he is starting to show signs that he doesn't know how to turn this around which is worrying because even with class players in every position what is the guarantee he can get them to play together.

 

Granted no manager can absolutely guarantee success but you have a better chance with a proven one.

Funnily enough Klopp in his first two years was making similar mistakes to what Lampard is doing now. Game management sketchy, standing by poor performing keepers etc.

Regarding the proven at the top level bit i would rather look at what we're seeing now as opposed to what was done before. Klopp may have had a track record previous when struggling at Pool, but what (in relation to the top level) did Spurs have to go on in Pochettinos first season? What did Dortmund have to go on when Klopp struggled there initially? What did Liverpool have to go on in Brendan's first season? They saw signs on the pitch to stick by them not by looking at before. On the flip side to that, Jose has the "proven track record" but would you trust him overseeing what we're trying to do? 

And yes I do believe there are signs of encouragement despite the struggles of late, here are some bullet points as to why I think so.

- He's had us winning three big away games (Ajax, Arsenal, Spurs) after more than two years not winning a single one, and ALL three of them were in a lot part down to his tactics/adjustment's. You could even say four at a push by including this very good Wolves team that scalp the top six as a hobby.

- We went toe to toe with two of the best sides in PL history. Liverpool had to park the bus to escape the Bridge with three points, this was finished article Liverpool vs young players and a manager five games into top flight football. We lost the games due to them being more experienced and clinical but the fact we actually went toe to toe with them and competed at this stage was outstanding.

- When it's come off it's been really good. Watford away especially was an absolute delight to watch.

- He has improved players. Tomori looked like he was finding his level in the Championship until Frank got hold of him, Kova looks a different player this season, Pulisic has started producing numbers that he wasn't really known for, Tammy and Mount are better all round players, Willian is probably having his best season with the club.

- We are vastly underperforming our XG rates at both ends, which as God frustrating as it is currently, is a promising indication things will get better. XG is as accurate a foreshadower of things to come as it's possible to get.

Am I happy with everything he's done? No, I'm particularly vocal at my irritation of the Jorgi/Kova/Mount midfield being broke up prematurely (which in my opinion had cost us atleast 7 points) and i do expect evolvement year on year (less and less of the naiveity we can sometimes see) but all things considered (transfer embargo, losing Hazard, trying to rebuild a core with academy players, all in sundry thinking we'd be lucky to finish top half) he's doing a fine job and I've seen more than enough encouragement there's a potential top coach there.

1 hour ago, forbzy said:

Kovacic and Jorginho have been at their most effective this season when combined with a more attacking midfielder like Mount or Barkley. When Kante plays alongside them in a midfield 3 we don't carry enough attacking threat from midfield.

Most effective - barely scrapping wins against Villa and other low end teams while losing every big game in the league, for a month tops!

Chelsea 1 : 1 Leicester

Norwich 2 : 3 Chelsea

Chelsea 2 : 2 Sheffield United

Wolverhampton Wanderers 2 : 5 Chelsea

Chelsea 0 : 1 Valencia

Chelsea 1 : 2 Liverpool

Chelsea 7 : 1 Grimsby

Chelsea 2 : 0 Brighton

Lille 1 : 2 Chelsea

Southampton 1 : 4 Chelsea

Chelsea 1 : 0 Newcastle United

Ajax 0 : 1 Chelsea

Burnley 2 : 4 Chelsea

Chelsea 1 : 2 Manchester United

Watford 1 : 2 Chelsea

Chelsea 4 : 4 Ajax

Chelsea 2 : 0 Crystal Palace

At best, 6 good games, 2-3 winning streak in the league, much effective such wow amazingness partnerships

 

15 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Most effective - barely scrapping wins against Villa and other low end teams while losing every big game in the league, for a month tops!

Chelsea 1 : 1 Leicester

Norwich 2 : 3 Chelsea

Chelsea 2 : 2 Sheffield United

Wolverhampton Wanderers 2 : 5 Chelsea

Chelsea 0 : 1 Valencia

Chelsea 1 : 2 Liverpool

Chelsea 7 : 1 Grimsby

Chelsea 2 : 0 Brighton

Lille 1 : 2 Chelsea

Southampton 1 : 4 Chelsea

Chelsea 1 : 0 Newcastle United

Ajax 0 : 1 Chelsea

Burnley 2 : 4 Chelsea

Chelsea 1 : 2 Manchester United

Watford 1 : 2 Chelsea

Chelsea 4 : 4 Ajax

Chelsea 2 : 0 Crystal Palace

At best, 6 good games, 2-3 winning streak in the league, much effective such wow amazingness partnerships

 

If you think Watford away wasn't a great game then I really don't know what to say to you.

7 minutes ago, Argo said:

If you think Watford away wasn't a great game then I really don't know what to say to you.

Toe to toe against one of the worst teams in the league, sloppy given away penalty and one of the most rare things to ever see in nature, Kepa saving a shot to stop the opposition to get away with a point.

Your fashion is outdated, here are the current trends:

Kante and Jorginho don't fit for Lampard they should be sold.

6 hours ago, Strider6003 said:

It is looking like Frank is struggling and making mind boggling decisions.

I was shocked when he recently said in the press conference we had exhausted attacking options to death in training, if this is really the best I am reminded of something Wellington said about Napoleon after Waterloo,

'He's just a pounder (artillery man) after all.

Annoyances,

1. Kovacic - Tammy and earlier in the season Kova would find Tammy by dribbling through the lines and passing towards Tammy.

Tammy with his back to goal holds off two defenders and either gets the free-kick or finds Willian running past his marker into space and the attack is on with Tammy running forward to receive the return and chance on goal. I don't recall this happening since Kante returned. 

2. Wide player Willian - Reece - normally down the ring wing.

The winger is trying to cross near the bye-line and there are two options due to the dynamics of being under pressure and trying to cross the ball from a wide position, the ball either comes on the ground parallel with the bye-line or is a deep out-swinger cross to the far post. Tammy doesn't move, he stays rooted with two defenders on him, recently 2/3 of these crosses go straight along the ground and if he runs towards the near post he has a good chance of an angled shot - that is coaching!

3. The CHO corner cut-in, yesterday showed a poor choice of play and when not to use it. We have already scored with a clever angled cross thanks to Azpi, why in injury time with probably our last play and every player in the box does CHO decide to try and outshine the Willian special with a cut-in and direct shot. Every team we face expects this and closes it down. He misses - game over. Poor choice at that time this must be coached.

4. One-two-threes

Not sure about my use of my descriptive term yet what I mean is this, a simple one-two won't open up a defence, yet if the one-two is simulated yet the pass goes to a third angled runner who then finds the on running second payer we normally have a chance on goal. This is what needs to be coached and will create chances.

5. Kante cannot not be involved in steps 1-4 he will slow it down and the opportunities will fade away.

We drew with Arsenal yesterday no shame in that, though we could have done so much better with a little more directed coaching and better player selection, IMO.

Frank is looking very pedestrian just now.

What annoys me most is Franks poor decision making, why take off Willian our more productive player in attack? It should have been Batshuayi off for Tammy, but for whatever reason Lampard constantly sticks to Tammy no matter how bad he plays and he has played bad even since the last Arsenal win the club had. A goal doesn't make me think he is playing good, good link-up play and making yourself open towards joining in the play like Harry Kane does that and being more clinical which he clearly struggles with. We take off Kante for one blunder and yes it was a bloody awful one, but Tammy misses sitters nearly every damn game but where is his punishment?

 

Lampard keeps Tammy on even though he did nothing for 94 minutes which in turn saw him get injured, slow clapping here... I think you'd be beyond biased to ignore the favouritism that Lampard is showing to certain people. People will mention the goal tally Abraham has which is good I put it down to great team work getting him as many, but for large parts the inconsistency and poor play its hard to watch Chelsea won't be winning the league with him playing like this he needs to improve a lot. Well now it looks like we're without a a starting striker, I wonder what dumb move he will do next maybe Mount as a false 9.