3 hours ago, Gol15 said:

So we should get the 35 year old Fernandinho and we're fine then? Next year his contract expires we can get him for free.

Doubt we will be fine but he would be the best dm at the club

2 hours ago, abister1 said:

Good old loyal fans always overstating and over estimating their importance to the game. Lol. 

There's nothing there, football has moved on. I've said it a long time ago fans are so irrelevant and the fact they didn't even see it then and can't see it now drives home my point. 

Seasons worldwide restarted without fans, new campaigns started without fans, when big players sign fans shout hurrah, when player performs badly they shout get rid, if player performs well and natural progression to a bigger club comes, fans shout traitor. Match going fans are nothing but a major annoyance to the real actors in the games. The footballers, the management team, the money men. 

And yes lest I forget, the match going fans always want to antagonise the far away fans.... Fans in Americas, in Asia, in Africa in anywhere but Stamford Bridge, Turf Moor, Selhurst Park, Villa Park, Goodison Park..... general point being it is now a general problem. 

Last to understand what being global means and that football at this level is a product, a product better than with you so called Fans in the stadiums.

By the way do you not hear the "sounds of the fans" at the games? lol. So irrelevant you're the only ones that can be replaced with automation for the show to go on. 

A man expresses his doubt at Lampard being right for the club at this level after his stripes earned with one season at Derby (where he didn't particularly pull down trees), and after identifying a trend in the defensive side of game from Derby, last season and current season which doesn't ported well, means he is a w**ker. 

Legend or not at this club don't mean he is the right man. Me I'll keep on keeping it real and calling it as it is. Lampard can prove me wrong. You keep calling me w**nker and waiting for Football to let you back in, irrelevant annoyance and all. 

What a crock of sh*t.

58 minutes ago, abister1 said:

Have what you want mate. Not a bother to me if you view international w**ker fans as less than you and your West London born match going pals. 

Not a view I share.

Loyalty is the same everywhere in the world. Success is the same everywhere in the world. Success breeds association and loyalty. 

Apart from your integral core of family and friends, you go try your hands at failure and see how many people mill around you. Even some in that group might be hard pushed to stick around. 

 

49 minutes ago, abister1 said:

The financial behomoth of the game Chelsea became was as a result of a foreigner injecting his money into the club. 

The product premier league grew to the level it has as a result of being packaged and export for an international audience. 

The fact that television and media, in way of image rights, viewing rights and all that have a big influence in the financial status and ability of clubs at the bottom rungs of the Premiership being able to splurge £100m+ on players and contracts tells you all you need to know about the importance of fans on a global level. 

Therein your overstated importance because if any club got a choice between having their local match going fans over the foreign ones for them to continue operating as football is today, it'll be adiós amigo to you, all day every day. 

I think you are confusing me with someone who supports Chelsea because we are a financial behomoth.

As you say, if I failed only my integral core of family and friends would stick around and the same is true of Chelsea if they failed. I would stick around and I doubt most of our international fans would if we were a league 1 side. That is why they aren't as important as the match going fans who have been a part of Chelsea for decades.

The club should first and foremost be for the fans that are match going. That doesn't mean international fans are not welcome or important, but to say the views of the Chelsea fans in Saudi Arabia about Frank Lampard are as important as the fans who go to the games and have decades of support behind them is f**king nonsense.

1 hour ago, abister1 said:

I won't blame him for individual footballers making mistakes but surely where these mistakes occur repeatedly across different personnel, one has to cast a suspicious glance at the management team surely? 

Its not all the players making mistakes, juts 3-4 of the same culprits taking turns. Kepa Rudiger Alonso Christensen being the offenders. Mistakes made by themselves with no excuses for it, stop blaming the gaffer for these failures. We have already seen this season what happens when those four players are missing, we get a clean sheet.

I'm also not having it that the fans in the stadium don't have an impact. I'm not saying that was why we only drew with Southampton but I believe a full stadium and the noise and celebrations generated by Chelsea's third goal would have psychologically damaged the Southampton players. It would have been really difficult to lift themselves. 

I'm still of the view that Frank is learning on the job. I think its a very harsh view to blame him for our defensive frailties. Yes he's the manager but we have a lot of new players to integrate and those players need to become "acclimatized" to the Premier League. Both Ziyech and Havertz had a hand in the midfield failure to hang onto the ball for two of the goals. Zouma has to be accountable for one of the goals but overall it seems to me there is a mental frailty that can be addressed. Its not just about us over committing in attack.

The team selection needs to settle down. It seems we have a prefered shape with Kante and Jorge in front of a back four but we do need to have Silva and Mendy in the team. I think both of these players bring a new mentality to the defence. With the next international break not happening until March we stand a chance of settling the team selection down a bit and hopefully we can press on from here. 

 

Fans in the stadiums works both ways, it helps the big clubs going to places like Burnley, Leeds, Wolves etc when those fans would make an even bigger impact. If Brighton have the fans I doubt we would win a game which we was very lucky to win anyway. 

6 minutes ago, Andy North said:

I'm also not having it that the fans in the stadium don't have an impact. I'm not saying that was why we only drew with Southampton but I believe a full stadium and the noise and celebrations generated by Chelsea's third goal would have psychologically damaged the Southampton players. It would have been really difficult to lift themselves. 

I'm still of the view that Frank is learning on the job. I think its a very harsh view to blame him for our defensive frailties. Yes he's the manager but we have a lot of new players to integrate and those players need to become "acclimatized" to the Premier League. Both Ziyech and Havertz had a hand in the midfield failure to hang onto the ball for two of the goals. Zouma has to be accountable for one of the goals but overall it seems to me there is a mental frailty that can be addressed. Its not just about us over committing in attack.

The team selection needs to settle down. It seems we have a prefered shape with Kante and Jorge in front of a back four but we do need to have Silva and Mendy in the team. I think both of these players bring a new mentality to the defence. With the next international break not happening until March we stand a chance of settling the team selection down a bit and hopefully we can press on from here. 

 

I agree about Frank learning and hopefully now he has seen Werner playing centrally that will happen with Tammy and Giroud on the bench.

I'm not sure on Kante, so often he is so far advanced up the pitch it is as though we are playing with five forwards, is that intentional or just indiscipline?

 

 

2 months in I don't see any improvement. Frank did not survive last season because we love and respect him. He survived it because he did his job accordingly. 

But we were lucky. We are not getting Leicester as contender again. United, Spurs and Arsenal won't be all that bad again. At the moment it seems like Frank relies entirely on the luck to get to top 4 but that ain't happening again. 

1 hour ago, Ernie_blue said:

Doubt we will be fine but he would be the best dm at the club

So a 35-36 year old Fernandinho would be our best DM?

If he's that good then it really doesn't matter who is our DM now does it, since even with him being the best according to you, you doubt that we would be fine...

2 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

So a 35-36 year old Fernandinho would be our best DM?

If he's that good then it really doesn't matter who is our DM now does it, since even with him being the best according to you, you doubt that we would be fine...

Fernandinho would be the best dm at our club but then so would alot of other dms at smaller prem clubs and would make a difference because he would sit there and protect. What does fine mean? Finish top half?, top 4?, win the league? Win the champions league?

1 minute ago, Ernie_blue said:

Fernandinho would be the best dm at our club but then so would alot of other dms at smaller prem clubs and would make a difference because he would sit there and protect. What does fine mean? Finish top half?, top 4?, win the league? Win the champions league?

Would having a 35-36 y/o Fernandinho solve our defensive problems or not?

If your answer is yes we should sell Jorginho, Kovacic and Kante all together and just have wee Billy be the backup.

2 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Would having a 35-36 y/o Fernandinho solve our defensive problems or not?

If your answer is yes we should sell Jorginho, Kovacic and Kante all together and just have wee Billy be the backup.

He would solve some of them because the issues are in goal, cbs and midfield. We dont have a midfielder who cant protect and Fernandinho would solve that in this team right now, like a 36 yr old Silva is better than all out CBs. Why would you sell Jorginho, Kovacic and Kante? I dont understand that. Have one midfielder for the whole season, what formation would you play, 4132, that's brave.

31 minutes ago, Droopy said:

2 months in I don't see any improvement. Frank did not survive last season because we love and respect him. He survived it because he did his job accordingly. 

But we were lucky. We are not getting Leicester as contender again. United, Spurs and Arsenal won't be all that bad again. At the moment it seems like Frank relies entirely on the luck to get to top 4 but that ain't happening again. 

Us finishing 4th had nothing to do with luck, we finished in the Champions League places because we absolutely deserved it. If anything Manchester United were lucky to finish in the 3rd spot especially when you take into account that they achieved a +7 Point merit based upon VAR decisions overturned and we had a -2 Point outcome.

Even without VAR intervention they had the luxury to bring in Bruno who as a result catapulted them into the 3rd spot they finished on, Lampard had no summer signings and more importantly lost Hazard who was involved in 33% of all our goals last season and in addition was without Kante and RLC for majority of the season. 

In addition to all this I would say Lampard had a huge part to play from a tactical standpoint in numerous games last season, Spurs Home & Away he changed the system and outsmarted Mourinho. Against Arsenal he got it wrong but his in game management was excellent to change to a back 4 and as a result was awarded with a win. Other games such as Wolves and Southampton away also come to mind where he played a massive part in the outcome.

Nothing to do with Luck

 

People always see in black and white. We deserved and it was a very well done job by Frank but it was also luck, just as Leicester title for example. There is a high chance that we perform like last season and we get approximately the same amount of points. Please, be here and say it had nothing to do with luck when we find ourselves on 6th or 7th spot. 

Edited October 19, 20205 yr by Droopy

Looking at villa I’m wondering if JT is having any impact on their unbelievable form and if he is get him across here as a defensive coach in jan

Quote

 "I keep talking about the need for work and how things can take time. We're playing with new players and it's understandable to have moments where I talk about game management.

"It has to be worked on with time. It's a lesson to be learnt in time.

"I'm aware of the stats and the other stat is we've conceded the second least shots. It helps to narrow down the issue. It's something we're aware with recruitment and on the pitch with the players to make sure we set up well.

"We want to concede less, as do all teams at the moment."

12 minutes ago, Droopy said:

People always see in black and white. We deserved and it was a very well done job by Frank but it was also luck, just as Leicester title for example. There is a high chance that we perform like last season and we get approximately the same amount of points. Please, be here and say it had nothing to do with luck when we find ourselves on 6th or 7th spot. 

You do realize that a number of variables dictate the number of points a team achieves per season its not as simple as 66 points 1 season where you get Europa is the equivalent as 66 points in the next season where the same tally gets you Champions League, the standard of the league is ever fluctuating. In terms of looking at Luck and stating it has any bearing across 38 league games is a very simplistic way of looking at things, I think we had the rough end of the deal in comparison to United as I stated above when you take into account VAR. Even across our 2 fixtures against United we dominated yet were soundly beaten on the scoreline.

The table showed that regardless of all the variables being stacked against us we managed to get 4th and it was thoroughly deserved and had very little to do with luck and if after 38 games this season we finish mid table I will not call us unlucky but state that its what we deserved.

5 hours ago, The Brit said:

Can we give Lampard more than five PL games into his second season, when he's finally been able to buy some players after leading the club against expectations back into the Champions League, a bit of time FFS? Not blameless, not hapless either. Too many people focusing on all the negatives.  

 

Lamp deserves at least half a season with this new team/players to get things going. 

What people are worried about, which is very valid, is the lack of improvement on the defensive front.

6 hours ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

There’s no evidence that suggests international fans are the Lampard outers. I’ve seen twitter users based in England having such extreme and outlandish Views as well. IMO it’s more likely equally divided between international fans and local fans.

I also am not a fan on people looking down on international fans as if they are “lesser” not everyone has the luxury of being born in London to have the privilege of attending Chelsea games. International are also a huge part of the financial success of International mega clubs like Chelsea so to simply dismiss their contribution and affiliate them with the worse of the worst is a bit unfair.

 

Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester United, Chelsea, Bayern Munich, etc. do not become global giants without the international fans. PERIOD!

Do not dismiss their passions and the reaches of their wallets.

 

 

1 hour ago, Imran_CFC said:

You do realize that a number of variables dictate the number of points a team achieves per season its not as simple as 66 points 1 season where you get Europa is the equivalent as 66 points in the next season where the same tally gets you Champions League, the standard of the league is ever fluctuating. In terms of looking at Luck and stating it has any bearing across 38 league games is a very simplistic way of looking at things, I think we had the rough end of the deal in comparison to United as I stated above when you take into account VAR. Even across our 2 fixtures against United we dominated yet were soundly beaten on the scoreline.

The table showed that regardless of all the variables being stacked against us we managed to get 4th and it was thoroughly deserved and had very little to do with luck and if after 38 games this season we finish mid table I will not call us unlucky but state that its what we deserved.

2020 - 66 points 

2019 - 71 points

2018 - 75 points

2017 - 76 points

2016 - 66 points

2015 - 70 points

2014 - 79 points

2013 - 73 points

2012 - 69 points

2011 - 68 points

2010 - 70 points

to get in top 4. 

 

One thing is not fluctuating - the lowest amount of points to get in top 4 for a span of over a decade. This, my friend, is pure luck due to bad competition. 

 

Still don't see how that is luck, just goes to show the league was highly competitive outside the top 2

2 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

He would solve some of them because the issues are in goal, cbs and midfield. We dont have a midfielder who cant protect and Fernandinho would solve that in this team right now, like a 36 yr old Silva is better than all out CBs. Why would you sell Jorginho, Kovacic and Kante? I dont understand that. Have one midfielder for the whole season, what formation would you play, 4132, that's brave.

If you need a 36 year old midfielder to solve the problems then you can safely sell your deep midfielders knowing that you don't know how to use them. 

At 36 he won't have the pace to protect our backline once our high press is broken so good luck with that, if he was really that good Man City would have extended his contract...

Frank pointed to a stat when asked about having the worst defensive record of any Chelsea manager his answer was we have conceded the second least shots on goal after Man City, so we are stopping chances but when there are chances we are letting them in, closing down, marking and a new keeper fixes that very quickly. 
 

I believed it was more systemic as a team midfield especially but if we are conceding the least shots bar city it means we are defending as a team well but not defending at the last moment at all...

I think when silva plays regular and with chilwell and Mendy we should see improvements 

This luck thing is funny if Frank was lucky so was Sarri lets not forget the 6-0 hammering up at City too quickly.

Lets consider we draw 3-3 and then a day later Spurs go 3 up and contrive to draw 3-3 too.

Arsenal though playing well could not get a point against City. 

Lots of results have happened like this in both the last two seasons. 

I don't bet until about mid November when the season starts to settle down at this point it is still too early to judge.

You do get the odd team that looks unstoppable and so far none have really stood out just yet. 

 

45 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

If you need a 36 year old midfielder to solve the problems then you can safely sell your deep midfielders knowing that you don't know how to use them. 

At 36 he won't have the pace to protect our backline once our high press is broken so good luck with that, if he was really that good Man City would have extended his contract...

So you can safely sell all your midfielders even though you play well over 50 to 60 games. Shall we sell every CB we have then because Silva is better than every CB at the club, it makes no sense. You would only have Silva playing every game.

Man City did extend his contract, why has he made 2 starts and been involved in all 4 league games. Just because he doesnt start every game for City who have a better player in Rodri doesn't mean he wont improve Chelsea. City are better than Chelsea and have the best squad in english football if not Europe. I cant even remember the original point but I have no doubt Fernandinho would improve this current Chelsea team because he is exactly what we need. Would I take Fernandinho over Jorginho for this season, hell yeah but then I'm getting old and I like my dms to be able to defend.