Super Frank Lampard

[Gol15]

4 minutes ago, Slojo said:

You've missed my point. I've not denied that managers can't have success at their first club. Everyone has to start from somewhere, but like I said before, top level is rarely a job where you learn your trade. Most of the time it doesn't translate into success. 

But a manager with limited achievements and experience is going to have more doubters, and that's perfectly reasonable. If you have more experience and achivements to your name you can provide more evidence that you can turn this around and win things. 

I still don't see why wouldn't Lampard have the chance to finish this season based on this.

The only way to know if Lampard can turn things around is to let him have the chance to do it by the end of the season.

We're still in the FA Cup and in the CL, things change fast in football and we might just have a good run in the league.

There is no guarantee that someone like Olle Gunnar will keep this level up for Man United, they already didn't survive the CL group stage and they will face Liverpool in the FA Cup soon enough, his position by the end of the season might be in more danger than what it looks like now.

Arsenal was in trouble last season, they changed the manager and Arteta finished 8th and he's right now 10th so that isn't at all an improvement, there is no guarantee that another manager would settle fast and easy with our current squad.

[Slojo]

Just now, Gol15 said:

I still don't see why wouldn't Lampard have the chance to finish this season based on this.

The only way to know if Lampard can turn things around is to let him have the chance to do it by the end of the season.

We're still in the FA Cup and in the CL, things change fast in football and we might just have a good run in the league.

There is no guarantee that someone like Olle Gunnar will keep this level up for Man United, they already didn't survive the CL group stage and they will face Liverpool in the FA Cup soon enough, his position by the end of the season might be in more danger than what it looks like now.

Arsenal was in trouble last season, they changed the manager and Arteta finished 8th and he's right now 10th so that isn't at all an improvement, there is no guarantee that another manager would settle fast and easy with our current squad.

I don't think you're being unreasonable by any means, we just disagree on whether or not he should be given more time. 

I really want him to prove me wrong, but I just don't think he will. But I've already explained my position on this anyway. I only take issue with the Klopp comparisons and other false equivelancies that don't work but are still being used on here. 

[RMH]

4 minutes ago, Slojo said:

It went over your head, clearly. 

Di Matteo was a legend. Talk about Frank having a great season, Di Matteo won a Champions League and an F.A. Cup in 5 months here. How long did he last the next season? About 3/4 months? And what's he doing now? We definitely regretted that one didn't we. 

It clearly went over your head, Mourinho was a hero for us, and yet he was sacked for all the f**king resume that he had. (And I supported him as I supported any of the managers we’ve had)

[RMH]

8 minutes ago, Slojo said:

What a great analogy that is. Youth players on scraps compared to a senior managerial role that's practically the pinacle of a clubs success. 

I guess a CV doesn't matter anymore in football? f**k it, I bet the richest owners in the world now pick out a random name from a basket and hire whoevers name they picked up. 

Uncle ‘arry Redknap and his cv says hello!

[Gol15]

2 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I don't think you're being unreasonable by any means, we just disagree on whether or not he should be given more time. 

I really want him to prove me wrong, but I just don't think he will. But I've already explained my position on this anyway. I only take issue with the Klopp comparisons and other false equivelancies that don't work but are still being used on here. 

So you voted for him to be sacked right now, according to you his time to prove that he can do well this season was over after the loss against Leicester or sooner than that?

I think that the club is being more patient than you in this, after all if he is to be sacked after underperforming a whole lot, the club could do it by the end of next month after we have played Wolves, Spurs, Southampton, Atletico Madrid and Man United or after a big loss to Spurs if that was to happen hypothetically speaking.

The board has been pretty slow in getting new players in the most recent years, it took us the whole summer to sign Havertz and the appointment of Sarri took unnecessary long as well. When the board made a fast decision last time it was when we got the record signing of Kepa... So my advice is to just be more patient on this, even if Lampard fails we shouldn't just get a random manager that doesn't suit us, it's a huge decision for the long term.

[RMH]

My point is, what the f**k with all this manager sacking after a month of bad play. I supported even f**king Sarri (and you can check my posts in his topic) when I was spending thousands of pounds going to watch the boring football he provided, and even had to get out of Manchester with embarrassment after the 6 they put past us. If you can’t give one complete season to one of our legends who has proven that he can do it by overachieving in his first season, wtf!? Can we just have the patience for a young manager to proof himself like we ask managers to give playing time to youngsters? If not, then don’t ask for cho or Gilmour to have more game time.

[Argo]

1 minute ago, RMH said:

And yet they/you are not willing to give him the 5 years, even though we all know that Frank overachieved by reaching 4 position in his first season v Klopp being 8, 4, 4. Even with the same horrid start, which I do not agree with, he hasn’t been sacked and you guys are asking for his head after one month of bad play. We can laugh at Liverpool fans, but you are not showing to be better in this matter.

Now you're moving the goal post's. You said we would call for his head if he had a "horrid start like Klopp" well results wise, he did! I think Klopp may have got top 4 (or just missed it) if the table was only counted from after his arrival.

And while we're on the subject of Liverpool fans, both Roy Hogsdon and Brendan Rodgers had similarly woeful results at the start of their tenure, one they aggressively called to be fired and the other they backed to the moon and the back, why? Because one shown a clear vision, blueprint and hope better results will come while the other was branding a 1-0 win at Bolton a famous victory and calling Northampton Town a formidable challenge. They then also 'turned against' Brendan three years later, why? Because they stagnanted and were rolling out rubbish display after rubbish display.

And this "one month of bad play and you turn" is simplistic. Firstly there's bad and there's bad, one month (coming up to two) and 10 games barely looking capable of doing the basics is a long time, our greatest ever manager lost his job due to a similar rut and if you or anyone still think that was the wrong decision i'd love to hear why. Secondly my stance from day dot with Lampard (and any manager for that matter) is that there's progression and evolution or at the very least a structure, last season there was the greeness but also the promise, we had the Bournemouth games but also the defeats we were brilliant (Liverpool, City) and the games it all came together (Spursx2, Everton) with that came the hope that once he strengthens the squad the promise will become the dominant part of his management but the total opposite has happened. We're currently on a run of 3 wins (one vs a L2 side) in 10, which is the type of run that puts manager's at risk at Palace let alone Chelsea (not to mention Vialli lost his job at pre Roman Chelsea for 2 wins in 7 and that was after an FA Cup win and CL last 8 appearance), especially when the performances aren't there either. 

I'm actually quite easily pleased, if we lose to Wolves in the manor we lost to say Liverpool at home last season i'll be the first to turn round and say "ok, frustrating result but there's finally something in the performance, we played quite well, we had a structure, we went down kicking and screaming, we can really build on this" i'll be then absolutely fine with holding fire because i've seen some hope that could fix this, and that's literally all i ask for, hope. I'm fully up for a medium term wait to win or even challenge for honours again, what i'm not up for is us playing eye gouging football while looking so tactically rudderless. Come win, draw or lose i want to be able to enjoy the games in some way shape or form (for example as boring as the football was at times under Sarri, i liked watching our growth from a possession perspective and debating how we will progress from there) at this moment the results are crap, the performances are even worse and there's not even anything in the games that i could pinpoint as a base trigger to build on, unless you would like to enlightenen me on something i'm missing...

[The Rising Sun]

2 hours ago, Slojo said:

I have more doubts about a manager who has limited experience and no managerial acheivements (silveware). Is that unreasonable? The reason why the Klopp comparisons don't work is because before he went to Liverpool he was already highly rated due to his CV. 

The club appointed an inexperienced manager who has won nothing.

I can't believe they expect him to suddenly become a Mourinho or Pep overnight.

they must have figured in a bumpy learning curve surely ? If they didn't then they obviously have no ides.

[ilcalmo]

Simply lampard is not a top class manager, not due to missing his cv, but cause he has lack of tactical approach. Last season we were underdogs and win some matches against top6, but this year we haven't won a single match against them! Just watch again Leichester game, they shot down the sites and we have achieved 4 shots on target and 3 corners when trailing from the first few minutes. We had only a few chances. Simply Lampard doesn't have a clue what to do against strong teams. He looking for the ringht formation game to game, there is just one fixed point Mount. There are too many similar players for same positions and he doesn't know what to do with this situation. His tactic is do harder run and pass quicker, that's all! That's why he has failed past year FA cup final even to that crappy Arsenal and lost most of the big matches this year. His tactic is simply way to simply predictable! Di Matteo was great he was ablet to incredibly motivate players and he has the tactic how to overcome in Champions League semi final against Barcelona even with 10 man. So it's not about the cv, or experience, it's about the knowledge, what Lampard obviously doesn't have. I didn't understood why was appointed Sarri even paying for him to Napoli, instead of hiring Allegri. Many thinks Allegri is some kind of Conte, but he isn't he simply work with what he has and he forms his tactic to what he has, therefor he would be the perfect manager to Abramovich. I think Chelsea is not that club that let learn a coach 2-3 season to learn the job.

[ilcalmo]

Simply lampard is not a top class manager, not due to missing his cv, but cause he has lack of tactical approach. Last season we were underdogs and win some matches against top6, but this year we haven't won a single match against them! Just watch again Leichester game, they shot down the sites and we have achieved 4 shots on target and 3 corners when trailing from the first few minutes. We had only a few chances. Simply Lampard doesn't have a clue what to do against strong teams. He looking for the ringht formation game to game, there is just one fixed point Mount. There are too many similar players for same positions and he doesn't know what to do with this situation. His tactic is do harder run and pass quicker, that's all! That's why he has failed past year FA cup final even to that crappy Arsenal and lost most of the big matches this year. His tactic is simply way to simply predictable! Di Matteo was great he was ablet to incredibly motivate players and he has the tactic how to overcome in Champions League semi final against Barcelona even with 10 man. So it's not about the cv, or experience, it's about the knowledge, what Lampard obviously doesn't have. I didn't understood why was appointed Sarri even paying for him to Napoli, instead of hiring Allegri. Many thinks Allegri is some kind of Conte, but he isn't he simply work with what he has and he forms his tactic to what he has, therefor he would be the perfect manager to Abramovich. I think Chelsea is not that club that let learn a coach 2-3 season to learn the job.

[RMH]

1 hour ago, Argo said:

Now you're moving the goal post's. You said we would call for his head if he had a "horrid start like Klopp" well results wise, he did! I think Klopp may have got top 4 (or just missed it) if the table was only counted from after his arrival.

And while we're on the subject of Liverpool fans, both Roy Hogsdon and Brendan Rodgers had similarly woeful results at the start of their tenure, one they aggressively called to be fired and the other they backed to the moon and the back, why? Because one shown a clear vision, blueprint and hope better results will come while the other was branding a 1-0 win at Bolton a famous victory and calling Northampton Town a formidable challenge. They then also 'turned against' Brendan three years later, why? Because they stagnanted and were rolling out rubbish display after rubbish display.

And this "one month of bad play and you turn" is simplistic. Firstly there's bad and there's bad, one month (coming up to two) and 10 games barely looking capable of doing the basics is a long time, our greatest ever manager lost his job due to a similar rut and if you or anyone still think that was the wrong decision i'd love to hear why. Secondly my stance from day dot with Lampard (and any manager for that matter) is that there's progression and evolution or at the very least a structure, last season there was the greeness but also the promise, we had the Bournemouth games but also the defeats we were brilliant (Liverpool, City) and the games it all came together (Spursx2, Everton) with that came the hope that once he strengthens the squad the promise will become the dominant part of his management but the total opposite has happened. We're currently on a run of 3 wins (one vs a L2 side) in 10, which is the type of run that puts manager's at risk at Palace let alone Chelsea (not to mention Vialli lost his job at pre Roman Chelsea for 2 wins in 7 and that was after an FA Cup win and CL last 8 appearance), especially when the performances aren't there either. 

I'm actually quite easily pleased, if we lose to Wolves in the manor we lost to say Liverpool at home last season i'll be the first to turn round and say "ok, frustrating result but there's finally something in the performance, we played quite well, we had a structure, we went down kicking and screaming, we can really build on this" i'll be then absolutely fine with holding fire because i've seen some hope that could fix this, and that's literally all i ask for, hope. I'm fully up for a medium term wait to win or even challenge for honours again, what i'm not up for is us playing eye gouging football while looking so tactically rudderless. Come win, draw or lose i want to be able to enjoy the games in some way shape or form (for example as boring as the football was at times under Sarri, i liked watching our growth from a possession perspective and debating how we will progress from there) at this moment the results are crap, the performances are even worse and there's not even anything in the games that i could pinpoint as a base trigger to build on, unless you would like to enlightenen me on something i'm missing...

I’m not the one moving goal posts or the one starting with the Klopp comparison, but this has been branded around by some of the Frank out brigade to say that at least Klopp had some history of winning. So no, I’m not the one moving posts around. I get your point and respect it, but it is quite different from what others are saying. And I partly agree with you in that we’ve regressed a bit in the football we are playing now. But let’s not kid ourselves, last season for all the overachieving, we had our ups and downs too, losing to mid table teams and wasting several chances to secure top 4. But we also had glorious days which we enjoyed greatly. Much like this season, we’ve had our crap days (f**k me Arsenal was embarrassing), but we’ve enjoyed comprehensively beating Leeds playing great football. Or beating Sevilla against all odds! We’ve gone from consecutive clean sheets to become a defensive nightmare like last season. Do you seriously think that Frank is solely responsible for this when we’ve enjoyed some pretty good games under his tenure? Do you really believe that Frank is telling players not to look up to their team mates or to James not to track back Madison like some posters are suggesting? But most importantly, can’t we give him some time until the end of the season to prove himself or not? Very much like with the academy players, we know Frank is inexperienced, he is going to make mistakes and be tactically outplayed by other more experienced managers. Do we, as fans, stand behind our coach and give him until the end of the season and evaluate then?

[LongtimerLurker]

12 minutes ago, ilcalmo said:

Simply lampard is not a top class manager, not due to missing his cv, but cause he has lack of tactical approach. Last season we were underdogs and win some matches against top6, but this year we haven't won a single match against them! Just watch again Leichester game, they shot down the sites and we have achieved 4 shots on target and 3 corners when trailing from the first few minutes. We had only a few chances. Simply Lampard doesn't have a clue what to do against strong teams. He looking for the ringht formation game to game, there is just one fixed point Mount. There are too many similar players for same positions and he doesn't know what to do with this situation. His tactic is do harder run and pass quicker, that's all! That's why he has failed past year FA cup final even to that crappy Arsenal and lost most of the big matches this year. His tactic is simply way to simply predictable! Di Matteo was great he was ablet to incredibly motivate players and he has the tactic how to overcome in Champions League semi final against Barcelona even with 10 man. So it's not about the cv, or experience, it's about the knowledge, what Lampard obviously doesn't have. I didn't understood why was appointed Sarri even paying for him to Napoli, instead of hiring Allegri. Many thinks Allegri is some kind of Conte, but he isn't he simply work with what he has and he forms his tactic to what he has, therefor he would be the perfect manager to Abramovich. I think Chelsea is not that club that let learn a coach 2-3 season to learn the job.

I think you've confused Conte with someone else he's known for working with what he has and bringing the best out of them. See the Italian national squad and his time with Juve. Yes he does ask for better players but what manager doesn't? He was once quoted saying a manager is like a suit tailor. Its his job to adjust tactics and formation to the needs of his players.

I'm not against Allegri if Lamps does actually go however I'm not sure it would happen. Apparently we're not going the "pragmatic" route anymore hence the recent appointment of Sarri to play possesion based almost Barcelona-esque football. I'll hold my hands up and say I don't even want Barcelona football here its not us I'd rather we stick to what we're known for and good at.

A solid defense, a strong core of players willing to work in a system that (aside from the recent over reliance of Hazard) is stronger than the sum if its parts. Absolutely  ruthless on the counter. We used to have an identity as a team now we've lost it.

[The Rising Sun]

25 minutes ago, ilcalmo said:

Simply lampard is not a top class manager, not due to missing his cv, but cause he has lack of tactical approach. Last season we were underdogs and win some matches against top6, but this year we haven't won a single match against them! Just watch again Leichester game, they shot down the sites and we have achieved 4 shots on target and 3 corners when trailing from the first few minutes. We had only a few chances. Simply Lampard doesn't have a clue what to do against strong teams. He looking for the ringht formation game to game, there is just one fixed point Mount. There are too many similar players for same positions and he doesn't know what to do with this situation. His tactic is do harder run and pass quicker, that's all! That's why he has failed past year FA cup final even to that crappy Arsenal and lost most of the big matches this year. His tactic is simply way to simply predictable! Di Matteo was great he was ablet to incredibly motivate players and he has the tactic how to overcome in Champions League semi final against Barcelona even with 10 man. So it's not about the cv, or experience, it's about the knowledge, what Lampard obviously doesn't have. I didn't understood why was appointed Sarri even paying for him to Napoli, instead of hiring Allegri. Many thinks Allegri is some kind of Conte, but he isn't he simply work with what he has and he forms his tactic to what he has, therefor he would be the perfect manager to Abramovich. I think Chelsea is not that club that let learn a coach 2-3 season to learn the job.

Chelsea appointed him knowing he had no experience. He can only get that experience by learning on the job. How can anyone expect him to manage like a seasoned manager with trophies and titles to his name ?

Our professional and experienced board and our owner knew about Frank's inexperience, what did they expect ?

[ilcalmo]

Yes that's what I don't understand we bought a couple of good players for the front side, I think too many and Lampard simply doesn't know and doesn't find to where play who. On top we  bought only for free a single top class defensive player who is actually 36.  Rüdiger, Christensen, Zouma, James are not quality defenders, when Zouma returned from a loan I thought it's ok we can't sign anyone, but when the market become available for us and we got only Chilwell and Silva, that was a big surprise for me. I don't know who made decisions Maria, Abramovich, Lampard, but I guess Lampard had some affect for that. There is a trend some teams try to appoint managers completely inexperienced or inexperienced on high level, since Zidane, but this rarely works. As I wrote previously it isn't solely about experience, it's about talent and knowledge. I think Ranieri is a good coach but it took for him almost 30 years to win a top leag title with his about 10th team Leichester, may be Lampard can win a title after 3-4 years, but right now I don't see the game he tries to play, compete with top clubs. I just dont see Lampard do a miracle as Zidane, or Abramovich might have remember on Di Matteo and thought he can expect immediate result from him, but that is very rare. After all, may be Abramovich counted Lampard as interim manager and give him a chance this year to prove he is world class and as soon as Lampard fails he switches for someone else. However I don't understand recent gossips either Nagelsman made some very good game in Champions League past year, but that was made by covid a very different season, therefore before the end of this season it's hard to tell Nagelsmann really a top class coach. This is the same thing with Tuchel, he doesn't have else than a covid CL final and certainly  must win League1 titles with PSG. In previous seasons he hasn't shown much special. I think Allegri would be a very good choice, but may be this would be a gambling to change Lampard for Tuchel or Nagelsman right now. Lampard would have been a perfect assistant coach by an experienced manager and after 3-4 years he could gain enough experience to be headcoach, but in this current situation this would be humiliating. If they count seriously with Lampard as a team builder why spent over 200 for new players, without much concept. Simply I don't see the clear concept from the borad.

[cfcforeverfan]

11 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I still don't see why wouldn't Lampard have the chance to finish this season based on this.

The only way to know if Lampard can turn things around is to let him have the chance to do it by the end of the season.

We're still in the FA Cup and in the CL, things change fast in football and we might just have a good run in the league.

There is no guarantee that someone like Olle Gunnar will keep this level up for Man United, they already didn't survive the CL group stage and they will face Liverpool in the FA Cup soon enough, his position by the end of the season might be in more danger than what it looks like now.

Arsenal was in trouble last season, they changed the manager and Arteta finished 8th and he's right now 10th so that isn't at all an improvement, there is no guarantee that another manager would settle fast and easy with our current squad.

why we should give chances to let Lampard turn it around? Why shouldnt we give someone with more experience and higher chance to help Chelsea FC to turn this season around?

[cfcforeverfan]

8 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

I think you've confused Conte with someone else he's known for working with what he has and bringing the best out of them. See the Italian national squad and his time with Juve. Yes he does ask for better players but what manager doesn't? He was once quoted saying a manager is like a suit tailor. Its his job to adjust tactics and formation to the needs of his players.

I'm not against Allegri if Lamps does actually go however I'm not sure it would happen. Apparently we're not going the "pragmatic" route anymore hence the recent appointment of Sarri to play possesion based almost Barcelona-esque football. I'll hold my hands up and say I don't even want Barcelona football here its not us I'd rather we stick to what we're known for and good at.

A solid defense, a strong core of players willing to work in a system that (aside from the recent over reliance of Hazard) is stronger than the sum if its parts. Absolutely  ruthless on the counter. We used to have an identity as a team now we've lost it.

Exactly!!!!!

dont understand why people would rather to watch such a boring style of football that barely bring any success to the club, we won so many trophies and titles with defensive, counterattacking football, and we want to copycat someone else way to play without investing 1b in the team like Man City...i mean come on

[Argo]

10 hours ago, RMH said:

I’m not the one moving goal posts or the one starting with the Klopp comparison, but this has been branded around by some of the Frank out brigade to say that at least Klopp had some history of winning. So no, I’m not the one moving posts around. I get your point and respect it, but it is quite different from what others are saying. And I partly agree with you in that we’ve regressed a bit in the football we are playing now. But let’s not kid ourselves, last season for all the overachieving, we had our ups and downs too, losing to mid table teams and wasting several chances to secure top 4. But we also had glorious days which we enjoyed greatly. Much like this season, we’ve had our crap days (f**k me Arsenal was embarrassing), but we’ve enjoyed comprehensively beating Leeds playing great football. Or beating Sevilla against all odds! We’ve gone from consecutive clean sheets to become a defensive nightmare like last season. Do you seriously think that Frank is solely responsible for this when we’ve enjoyed some pretty good games under his tenure? Do you really believe that Frank is telling players not to look up to their team mates or to James not to track back Madison like some posters are suggesting? But most importantly, can’t we give him some time until the end of the season to prove himself or not? Very much like with the academy players, we know Frank is inexperienced, he is going to make mistakes and be tactically outplayed by other more experienced managers. Do we, as fans, stand behind our coach and give him until the end of the season and evaluate then?

Sorry my mistake, but yes my main way of looking at a manager isn't track record, it's the trajectory I see on the pitch. The manager I wanted out more than any was a world cup winner, and I think we can all agree we wouldn't want Jose back in 2021.

BIB: as I said in my previous post, literally all it will take for me to adopt that stance is some hope that our tactics and performances are sustainable, as little as a loss in a blaze of glory against Wolves at home will be enough for me to hold fire and a consistent stream of games where we show similar will be enough for me to say what you're saying. 

Ofcourse we had our bad games last season but back then there was a lot more mitigating circumstances. Firstly we had far too many weaknesses in key areas (how many times did we play well only to lose points due to a shot squirming under Kepa's body?) and secondly the games were spread out and more random (for example those amazing games at home to Spurs and Everton either side of a horror show at the Vitality) which would point to the standard inconsistency any team without the required quality would have. We never at any point had such a run lacking the bare basics and there was always something even in the majority of the defeats that can I could pick a decent number of positives out from.

I don't by any means expect Frank to be Pep/prime Mou and I absolutely signed up to the inconsistent/green elements of his management last season and this despite the outlay, I just want to see some cause for optimism that he has what it takes to find a way out of this rut, just some good performances (or failing that a good tactical blueprint/shape) will be enough for me in the short term, even if results take a while to catch up.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Argo

[Bob stark]

16 hours ago, RMH said:

 

We can discuss wether Frank has more or less experience, but let’s not kid ourselves, if Klopp had started at Chelsea as he did at Liverpool, those same posters would have got on his back pretty quickly.

No way, it is the reason why coming in the middle of the season is the best time for manager, you have one year free pass. Unless of course you are in relegation battle that is whole another ball game. 

Like I said multiple time, with klopp it was so easy to see the progress of the team. How each transfer fill the holes in that team. 

[cfcforeverfan]

2 hours ago, Argo said:

Sorry my mistake, but yes my main way of looking at a manager isn't track record, it's the trajectory I see on the pitch. The manager I wanted out more than any was a world cup winner, and I think we can all agree we wouldn't want Jose back in 2021.

BIB: as I said in my previous post, literally all it will take for me to adopt that stance is some hope that our tactics and performances are sustainable, as little as a loss in a blaze of glory against Wolves at home will be enough for me to hold fire and a consistent stream of games where we show similar will be enough for me to say what you're saying. 

Ofcourse we had our bad games last season but back then there was a lot more mitigating circumstances. Firstly we had far too many weaknesses in key areas (how many times did we play well only to lose points due to a shot squirming under Kepa's body?) and secondly the games were spread out and more random (for example those amazing games at home to Spurs and Everton either side of a horror show at the Vitality) which would point to the standard inconsistency any team without the required quality would have. We never at any point had such a run lacking the bare basics and there was always something even in the majority of the defeats that can I could pick a decent number of positives out from.

I don't by any means expect Frank to be Pep/prime Mou and I absolutely signed up to the inconsistent/green elements of his management last season and this despite the outlay, I just want to see some cause for optimism that he has what it takes to find a way out of this rut, just some good performances (or failing that a good tactical blueprint/shape) will be enough for me in the short term, even if results take a while to catch up.

Thats you, for me I would love to have him back anytime, and after watching how Spurs beat Arsenal, United and Man City, I would kill to have him back now.

Given our team is much better than Spurs bar Lloris, Kane, Son and Ndombele, I am so excited to watch how strong the defensive and counter attacking game we could play with our team. 

[Argo]

18 minutes ago, cfcforeverfan said:

Thats you, for me I would love to have him back anytime, and after watching how Spurs beat Arsenal, United and Man City, I would kill to have him back now.

Given our team is much better than Spurs bar Lloris, Kane, Son and Ndombele, I am so excited to watch how strong the defensive and counter attacking game we could play with our team. 

If we're cherry picking small sample sizes of games, look at his record vs us since he left and how both Conte and Frank have both toyed with him to a similar level he did with Wenger? You point to big game record but up until this season (and even then he's ballsed up the biggest two) he has a shocking recent big game record stretching as far back as us losing to 10 man PSG. The Mou of old was outsmarting the likes of Fergie and Ancelotti repeatedly, this one is getting so embarrassingly outclassed by a manager barely into his 30's (Nagelsmann) and a young one still learning his trade (Frank), amoung many others he'd have had for breakfast in the 00's or even early 10's.

If we go back down that approach of counter football there's many more suitable manager's in 2021, heck even Solskjaer has implemented that style better at United than he did. It's not my preference but if were going back down that route then the best option is Allegri.

[Bob stark]

1 hour ago, cfcforeverfan said:

Thats you, for me I would love to have him back anytime, and after watching how Spurs beat Arsenal, United and Man City, I would kill to have him back now.

Given our team is much better than Spurs bar Lloris, Kane, Son and Ndombele, I am so excited to watch how strong the defensive and counter attacking game we could play with our team. 

That ship has sailed. Jose is a good manager but it is time to move on

[Gol15]

6 hours ago, cfcforeverfan said:

why we should give chances to let Lampard turn it around? Why shouldnt we give someone with more experience and higher chance to help Chelsea FC to turn this season around?

Because he's already our manager, nobody thought that we wouldn't have any bumps on the road... It's not a given that anyone would be able to turn this season around anyway.

[cfcforeverfan]

1 hour ago, Argo said:

If we're cherry picking small sample sizes of games, look at his record vs us since he left and how both Conte and Frank have both toyed with him to a similar level he did with Wenger? You point to big game record but up until this season (and even then he's ballsed up the biggest two) he has a shocking recent big game record stretching as far back as us losing to 10 man PSG. The Mou of old was outsmarting the likes of Fergie and Ancelotti repeatedly, this one is getting so embarrassingly outclassed by a manager barely into his 30's (Nagelsmann) and a young one still learning his trade (Frank), amoung many others he'd have had for breakfast in the 00's or even early 10's.

If we go back down that approach of counter football there's many more suitable manager's in 2021, heck even Solskjaer has implemented that style better at United than he did. It's not my preference but if were going back down that route then the best option is Allegri.

because his team wasnt what he want. Jose Mourinho would never ever want to have Ashley Young, Valencia, Aurier and Danny Rose as his FB. this season he just slightly improve the team with minimum spending (~20m per fullback and 15 for Hoiberg) he already improved the team so much. If you say Mou is getting outclassed by so many managers, what about Lampard getting outclassed by Nuno, f**king Arteta!!! (twice, in the league and Fa cup, after they lost 4 in a row at home remind you)? At least Mou has a great CV to show he might improve to his old prime way, what did Frank Lampard have to support him can turn this around? by scoring 200 goals for Chelsea?

Ole didnt win sh*t and this is his 3rd season already, he got knocked out in the CL, lost in cup semi final 4 times in a row, dont put his name next to Jose Mourinho lmao, even a dead corpse of Mourinho is still better than Ole, it is just insulting to put these 2 in the same sentence. Stop your bias against Mourinho

[cfcforeverfan]

1 hour ago, Bob stark said:

That ship has sailed. Jose is a good manager but it is time to move on

i just say i will be very happy and delighted to see him back, didnt say it will happen. But if it does, i will be the first to go to the Bridge and sing his name till my throat dies

[Argo]

13 minutes ago, cfcforeverfan said:

because his team wasnt what he want. Jose Mourinho would never ever want to have Ashley Young, Valencia, Aurier and Danny Rose 

Right so when Mourinho does well it's because he's a genius but when he doesn't it's the players?

If he was still a world class manager he'd knuckle down and find a way, Fergie won the league (and the season before lost it on goal difference) with those first two players playing big roles, just saying!

14 minutes ago, cfcforeverfan said:

If you say Mou is getting outclassed by so many managers, what about Lampard getting outclassed by Nuno, f**king Arteta!!! (twice, in the league and Fa cup, after they lost 4 in a row at home remind you)? 

Yes but the difference you're claiming Mou is still at a world class level like he use to to be, I'm not saying Lampard is at that level.

Also funny you mention Nuno as he has won the tactical battle against Jose 3/4 times he's faced him, with an inferior side every time.