5 hours ago, bisright1 said:

I asked for one more match than man city and bournemouth. 

You showed me a quote about us losing to Bournemouth (lol) as well as arsenal away and the first leg of a carabao cup semi final that we then went on to win!! It's hardly end of days 

And do I really give a sh*t about substitutions? No. I really don't know why people care so much about who is subbed. 

We had 2 bad losses. Outside of that our performances were as they should be for a team transitioning to a new style and our results were fantastic. 2 cup finals, barely dropped any points against the bottom half of table, competitive in every game against the top 6 bar the one Man City game. He brought RLC and CHO in to the first team. 

If Sarri hadn't been such a weirdo prick then we'd all have his name tattooed on our chest.

Always disagree with you on Sarri  Bisright, but FairPlay, you made me laugh on a boring Friday afternoon in the office, Sarri, ‘weirdo Prick’

The club knew Frank was inexperienced, with no Hazard and a possible 2 year transfer ban.

what were they, and us realistically expecting ?

he overachieved in the first season and started with half a new team in the second season, with a pandemic wrecking pre season.

If we  do not give him time, the Clubs decision making has to be questioned as they knew fully well what they were getting with Frank.

I'm not in the camp of people who think our signings are hopeless.

Most of them are top international players. Are some of them abit soft coming into a new league? Maybe but most young players are. Timo Werner doesn't turn into a bad player overnight. He was up there with the best strikers in world football consistently year after year and he wasn't playing for Bayern. 

Havertz does look soft and a bit lost at times. You can see something is there but this kid is a German international and has been playing since he was 17. With any kid that succeeds at a young age he's going to get the hype treatment. Just look at most of the youngsters touted at Chelsea. Gilmour has a few games and he's the next Xavi.

There's some background issues like covid and a lack of pre season that doesn't help the players adjust and I'm very much Lampard in right now but I do think we have bought some players with no idea on how to implement  them into a system. You don't buy Timo Werner to break down a team with every man behind the ball. 

Sadly the buck stops with the manager and how he uses these players. We've had great players here in the past that have looked hopeless one day and world beaters the next. 

I really do hope he gets to the end of the season and figures out a solution to this big dip in form. Arteta and Ole have been through similar situations and I hope maybe the game against Jose could be the catalyst to a change in fortunes. 

Though if I was frank I'd be scouring the market for a proper cdm stop gap to help bring a bit of balance to a 433 if he continues to purist with it. 

 

1 hour ago, Sindre said:

Watching his presser before Luton right now and my word does he look knackered. 

Called out Twomey for his negative pieces in the Athletic lately as well.

Yeh that bash at Liam was weird.  Because 2 mins prior he said he pays no attention to what the media say.  Contradicted himself lol

3 minutes ago, The Rising Sun said:

The club knew Frank was inexperienced, with no Hazard and a possible 2 year transfer ban.

what were they, and us realistically expecting ?

he overachieved in the first season and started with half a new team in the second season, with a pandemic wrecking pre season.

If we  do not give him time, the Clubs decision making has to be questioned as they knew fully well what they were getting with Frank.

I think Frank would get so much more support whatever the result, if on Tuesday, the team had played with energy, had some idea of how to break Leicester down, some idea of how to defend as a team rather than individuals and knew how to create chances. These are basics.

Frank just needs to ignore the media full stop. Because a loss to Wolves and the rumours of a dismissal will be back.  Infact a loss to Wolves and i think id have to reluctantly agree he needs to go. 

 

Wolves H

Burnley H

Spurs A

Sheff U A

Newcastle H

Soton A

A. Madrid A

Man Utd H

 

Up until end of Feb. That's a bit of a rough ride

Going after a reporter is not what I am accustomed to see from Frank. The stress is starting to show.

1 hour ago, chi blue said:

You say it as you see it Argo, On Sarri, I wanted him gone because of the football I watched not sure if you go but £100 a game is an awful lot of money to watch the same dross he was churning out, with no future with a manager who you knew didn’t want to be here, I’m not saying Frank is going to be the next Brian Clough, but with the emergence of the youngsters, last season above expectations in what we did, this blip only being 6/7 weeks with us playing mainly higher league teams as well, people surely can have a bit more patience, regarding double standards, some people may stick to their principles through thick and thin, and no knocking that, me, I prefer to be more fluid and change as I move through life and become more knowledgeable and  my views and opinions change, my choice,  regarding name calling, I’m sorry but if me saying the Xbox brigade offends you youngsters, I suppose it was meant to, in a friendly sort of way! If you-young ones called me Grandad I wouldn’t take it to heart. 

It's not that you wanted Sarri out and are sticking by Lampard 100% that I was challenging, it was more some of the wording. Ultimately wherever someone stood on Sarri and stands on Frank the majority only think what they do in the belief it's what best for the club.

End of the day we all (apart from the odd few trolls that pop up occasionally) post with one agenda and that's what we believe is best for Chelsea football club, and in my view that comes before anyone, me, you, Frank, Sarri, even Roman. One example on my end, Drogba is my all time idol (for what he does off the pitch aswell as what he did for us on it) but I was fully against his return in 2014 because I didn't think he was at the required level to compete in the PL anymore, and well he wasn't really but ultimately no harm done as he got to exit as the centre of attention on title day which was probably a more fitting end than his last kick in Munich.

Edited January 22, 20215 yr by Argo

14 minutes ago, RickUK said:

Frank just needs to ignore the media full stop. Because a loss to Wolves and the rumours of a dismissal will be back.  Infact a loss to Wolves and i think id have to reluctantly agree he needs to go. 

 

Wolves H

Burnley H

Spurs A

Sheff U A

Newcastle H

Soton A

A. Madrid A

Man Utd H

 

Up until end of Feb. That's a bit of a rough ride

Weirdly I think Spurs is the one we may do the best in for two reasons.

1. Jose will give us more tactical respect than our recent form warrants.

2. Frank seems to have his number, unbeaten in 5 and properly outdone him in 3 of them.

If there's any game our form will fly out of the window it will be that one.

 

3 hours ago, Brutos said:

In hindsight maybe keeping willian would have been a good idea when ever we have sh*t moments he seems to shine and his work rate is never in question he loves Chelsea and run his socks off for the badge, also maybe having Pedro around these young players would have been a good idea.

It seems we underestimated these guys influence on and off the pitch

Have you seen Willian at Arsenal? God No!

9 hours ago, cfcforeverfan said:

Sarri is 10 times the manager Frank now, but you say the truth - match going fans will yell f**k Sarriball but wont say a bad thing against Lampard, while Lampard is given the fund to buy his players and playing worse football, imagine we have an average performing manager, we might already challenging the title, just like United under Ole, a really really bang average manager, but top of the table for some reason

 

Why because Sarri finished top 4 in his first season when he got to bring in the player(s) he really wanted and we still had the best player in the league, and Frank only managed top 4 in his first season after we lost said best player in the league, were under a transfer ban, and transformed our team brining in several youth.

If Sarri was 10x the manager he'd either still be here with multiple additions to the trophy cabinet, or at least have left a few titles in his wake before leaving.

I will say if we a re going with a 10x theme.....Lampard has done 10x more at Chelsea than Sarri.  Lampard's big signings are admittedly struggling to get firing, but Sarri's have been firmly placed on the bench for some time now....and who did Sarri bring through from our academy?

Someone mentioned how we play now under Frank is some what reminiscent of under Sarri...sadly, I got to agree.  Thought it myself a few times watching our team essentially play pass in a U shape (across the back  line and up one wing, back down the wing, back across the back line, up the other wing....and repeat).

Thing is if people are here supporting Sarri (or saying he was treated too harsh) then I am gob-smacked why they would think a manager who has helped deliver what we want for ages (bringing in academy players), actually did better imo given the harder circumstances, and just so happens to be a club legend who bleeds blue.....why would it be confusing that person is getting more support than someone who clearly held no attachment to the club or it's fans, and really achieved nothing more except finishing one spot higher in the top 4 (both qualify for CL....I see the difference between 3rd and 4th as existing, but not massive enough to consider one clearly better than the other without considering the context of the seasons)?

They both got another season after what they did in their first.....beyond that, I have and can list multiple reasons why Lampard would get better treatment/more time.....Im waiting for a reason for Sarri other than he finished top 4 his first season,,,, just like Frank.

20 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

With Kante back I expect to see Frank utilise 4231 more. I haven't voted because I prefer to see what the majority think without my input. I think being a new member on here may mean I lack credibility on here but I'd like to think I'm one of the voices of reason.

Seems simple to me, the football is bad now no question but Frank has us in the last 16 of the ucl I think we all expect to win the next 2 rounds of the fa cup and whilst the league position isn't great we are literally at the half way mark.

I think its fair to be conflicted and want better football, whilst also wanting Frank to succeed. For me Frank needs to do what he did last season and show us he is flexible, one of the reasons we heralded him was because he showed tactically he could adapt to the opposition 433, 4231, 343 (3421). With more players he should have more flexibility yet he has been more rigid this season. I believe Frank has the tools to get us out of this slump and so I'm actually in the let him stay camp for now....assuming he shows us he can adapt to his players not just force them to play one way.

TBF I think the time I was a brand new member here coincides with my peak credibility on here..... but that might just be me 😉

Edited January 22, 20215 yr by Barry Bridges

1 hour ago, The Rising Sun said:

The club knew Frank was inexperienced, with no Hazard and a possible 2 year transfer ban.

what were they, and us realistically expecting ?

he overachieved in the first season and started with half a new team in the second season, with a pandemic wrecking pre season.

If we  do not give him time, the Clubs decision making has to be questioned as they knew fully well what they were getting with Frank.

The club knew what they were getting into and so did Frank. With a transfer ban and no Hazard I dont think the job was attractive as it is now.

What they were realistically expecting in my opinion  is a respectable league finish. Top 8 minimum. The squad was still a high standard even without Hazard. He was just a cut above the rest and 90% of players in the league.

From Xmas last season onwards we were highly inconsistent and we scraped to a top 4 finish on the final day. The problems were clearly identifiable with this squad and they were addressed in the summer.

The lack of pre season excuse can't go on forever, every team is in the same boat, add to that we've gone from looking very promising to terrible. That is down to tactics and coaching.

I'm all for giving the manager time but you have to show that you can show more than a marginal improvement from the season before with a massively improved squad.

45 minutes ago, ducavis said:

Have you seen Willian at Arsenal? God No!

He really is a shadow of last year. Had one great game and just dreadful since.

Since people keep bringing up Sarri I couldn't help noticing something. If there was one thing I liked about Sarriball is the team's ability to beat the press in our own half and pass our way into another attacking buildup. Now after that we would usually struggle to get anything going in the final third under Sarri, but that's a different matter. In the early days under Lampard we seemingly continued to beat the press fairly easily by passing our way from the back but now it looks as if we forgot how to do it. Is it due to Zouma becoming our first choice CB and we know he's not great with the ball at his feet or Mendy not as good at this element as Kepa (admittedly that's the only thing Kepa's better at) or did we simply profit from Sarri's coaching early on? Does anybody else see the same pattern or is it just me?

50 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

The club knew what they were getting into and so did Frank. With a transfer ban and no Hazard I dont think the job was attractive as it is now.

What they were realistically expecting in my opinion  is a respectable league finish. Top 8 minimum. The squad was still a high standard even without Hazard. He was just a cut above the rest and 90% of players in the league.

From Xmas last season onwards we were highly inconsistent and we scraped to a top 4 finish on the final day. The problems were clearly identifiable with this squad and they were addressed in the summer.

The lack of pre season excuse can't go on forever, every team is in the same boat, add to that we've gone from looking very promising to terrible. That is down to tactics and coaching.

I'm all for giving the manager time but you have to show that you can show more than a marginal improvement from the season before with a massively improved squad.

We never got that defensive midfielder, Rice was quoted at £80m yet nothing happened. So we entered the season without a proper defensive midfielder.

4 minutes ago, abramovich said:

Since people keep bringing up Sarri I couldn't help noticing something. If there was one thing I liked about Sarriball is the team's ability to beat the press in our own half and pass our way into another attacking buildup. Now after that we would usually struggle to get anything going in the final third under Sarri, but that's a different matter. In the early days under Lampard we seemingly continued to beat the press fairly easily by passing our way from the back but now it looks as if we forgot how to do it. Is it due to Zouma becoming our first choice CB and we know he's not great with the ball at his feet or Mendy not as good at this element as Kepa (admittedly that's the only thing Kepa's better at) or did we simply profit from Sarri's coaching early on? Does anybody else see the same pattern or is it just me?

I think Hazard & Willian had a lot do do with that, they both enjoyed dropping deep and receiving ball to feet whereas now we are playing with wingers who tend to prefer getting in behind rather then receiving ball to feet. Majority of Pulisic's success last season was based upon his runs in behind at the backpost or dribbling in the final third, I think Ziyech is probably someone who could drop into midfield and help with playing out but he just hasn't played enough games for us to make a judgement on that.

I think we are stuck in between 2 systems where our midfield and defense are designed for a possession based game whereas our attacking personnel are more suited to a fast paced counter attacking style of football. This is causing a huge disconnect in our team play and we just seem to be playing a ponderous style and not making the most of the space in behind, against Leicester we looked dangerous for the opening 5 minutes when we played balls in behind Leicesters defense but after conceding we just reverted to type.

34 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

I think Hazard & Willian had a lot do do with that, they both enjoyed dropping deep and receiving ball to feet whereas now we are playing with wingers who tend to prefer getting in behind rather then receiving ball to feet. Majority of Pulisic's success last season was based upon his runs in behind at the backpost or dribbling in the final third, I think Ziyech is probably someone who could drop into midfield and help with playing out but he just hasn't played enough games for us to make a judgement on that.

I think we are stuck in between 2 systems where our midfield and defense are designed for a possession based game whereas our attacking personnel are more suited to a fast paced counter attacking style of football. This is causing a huge disconnect in our team play and we just seem to be playing a ponderous style and not making the most of the space in behind, against Leicester we looked dangerous for the opening 5 minutes when we played balls in behind Leicesters defense but after conceding we just reverted to type.

That’s honestly a good assessment and how I’ve been feeling with regard to the team lately. It almost feels like half of our players are suited for counter attacking football and the other half for a possession based style. In particular a lot of our new recruits including Pulisic seem more suited towards counter attacking football.

3 hours ago, Zaphod2319 said:

Going after a reporter is not what I am accustomed to see from Frank. The stress is starting to show.

He loves the club, so much so is deeply personal to him. The passion can be a blessing and a curse.

Barney Ronay in the Guardian has penned a piece with the provocative title ' Does Frank Lampard genuinely deserve to be fired right now?' Ronay thinks football is full of 'heritage appointments and punts on status. 'This' he thinks, 'is how the game works.'  It's pretty painful stuff and written, I suspect, to get peoples' backs up. There's a definite air of condescension about it, especially the odd connection he makes between the 'Golden Generation' and people wanting Lampard sacked. I found it dull reading made up of wishful thinking and speculation. Make of it what you will but from a personal point of view, I like Frank Lampard and hope he does well. 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2021/jan/22/does-frank-lampard-genuinely-deserve-to-be-fired-right-now

2 hours ago, ducavis said:

Have you seen Willian at Arsenal? God No!

Yes he gives f**k all about Arsenal that’s a big difference 

1 hour ago, abramovich said:

Since people keep bringing up Sarri I couldn't help noticing something. If there was one thing I liked about Sarriball is the team's ability to beat the press in our own half and pass our way into another attacking buildup. Now after that we would usually struggle to get anything going in the final third under Sarri, but that's a different matter. In the early days under Lampard we seemingly continued to beat the press fairly easily by passing our way from the back but now it looks as if we forgot how to do it. Is it due to Zouma becoming our first choice CB and we know he's not great with the ball at his feet or Mendy not as good at this element as Kepa (admittedly that's the only thing Kepa's better at) or did we simply profit from Sarri's coaching early on? Does anybody else see the same pattern or is it just me?

Fans under estimate how hard that is to achieve, beating the high press, we would easily by pass teams and break at their back 4.

But to beat the high press you need players brave, comfortable with high awareness and technical abilities under pressure and we have very few only Jorginho and Kova I see with those qualities. 

Franks similarity with sarri is going Forward with the Full backs being the wingers and the front 3 being the width of the penalty area. Didn’t work under Sarri as Alonso and Dave found it hard to get back when we lost the ball.

Even with Chillwell and James it doesn’t seem to be working. I don’t know If having too many bodies forward complicates decisions around the box. We dont interchange and risk like City we tend to be too safe. Maybe if we went to an orthodox 4 3 3 where the wingers cross for the centre forward and have midfielders breaking into the box giving the opposition something to think about.  Also if the move breaks down you still have a back four to do what they need to do.

Yeah I agree with you @Richard P. I am sick of seeing Chilwell and James playing like they’re wingers, which leaves Silva and Zouma/Rudiger badly exposed.

That’s got to be the tactics though, rather than the players themselves. The way Lampard wants to play I think it’d be far more successful if we played Conte formation, that way we’d have more protection at the back.

We’ll see what Frank does on Sunday.

3 hours ago, Strider6003 said:

We never got that defensive midfielder, Rice was quoted at £80m yet nothing happened. So we entered the season without a proper defensive midfielder.

If we really wanted a cdm, we would've signed one even if it wasn't the first choice option.  At the same time, we have a couple players that are suited to that role so not getting one wasn't the be all end all. We drastically improved on other key areas from the bottom up.