Just now, Nick05 said:

PS - that shot by Keita was a rocket. 

Half decent keepers don't let that in, it was almost straight at him. I've seen Mendy face similar shots and he just plucked them out of the sky with minimum fuss.

1 minute ago, Nick05 said:

Can somebody tell why we let Lamtpey go ? Maybe he was not big enough to be a fullback but couldve been a cracking winger with his pace.

Because he didnt think he was good enough to get in our team, so he left and went to a club where he will get in the team.

2 minutes ago, Nick05 said:

Can somebody tell why we let Lamtpey go ? Maybe he was not big enough to be a fullback but couldve been a cracking winger with his pace.

It wasnt the boards decision to sell him, the player refused to sign a new contract and we were forced to sell otherwise he would've left on a free.

I guess he realized that with Reece ahead of him it was unlikely he will ever be able to establish himself as the starter on the right. Even as a winger he must've thought CHO and Pulisic will have the winger slots secured for the foreseeable future. 

28 minutes ago, ducavis said:

You just can’t keep throwing money at a problem in case it works, in this case we are talking big money. Paying £60m+ for a DM is madness; for that amount you better be buying a world class DM, not potential. 
 

An interesting thing is DM is an area you can temporarily apply a band aid. An experienced manager will adapt a CB or even a full back. The transfer window is open, I am pretty certain he can loan a DM. We actually have 2 specialist DMs on our books on loan in Drinkwater & Bakayoko, Ampadu can play that role, and Azpi & Christensen have played as DMs before. Sorry but the board aren’t giving him a penny as things stand, and rightly so.

Please tell me that this is a joke. With the exemption of Ampadu. I challenge any coach in the world to get any of those players to play that position even competently. Say what you like I don't care who is manager, whether it be for Physicality or to move the ball quicker we definitely need reinforcements at CDM.

28 minutes ago, Argo said:

First game in the super cup we matched them all the way, drew the game but unfortunately lost the shootout.

First league game were the better side but our poor finishing cost us. 

Cup game (ironically almost two years to the day from that disgrace) we had even more injury's, were forced to give a teenager with only 3 prior appearances a start at DM (well i say forced Conte would have probably stuck Zouma there and used that to justify not leaving our own area) and beat them comfortably.

Second league game we were the better side but a Kepa disasterclass meant we weren't rewarded with a result.

So if the only way our 17/18 squad could have "achieved" a narrow defeat vs the runaway champions by setting up like San Marino how do you explain a weaker squad having a 1-1-2 record and a 'only' a -1 goal difference vs the runaway champions over 4 games two seasons later? Not to mention, that same squad went toe to toe at The Ethiad aswell and only lost by a 1 goal margin. 

I am saying I dont really care how the game is played, if we lose, then there isnt much to talk about for me, because a lost is a lost

However, I would always prefer playing the Conte way of playing because it is the more stable and conservative way to play a big team, as I dont really want to see an embarrassing result and getting smashed 5-0 6-0 or even 7-0, because this is not an elite team should do. 

And if you wanna go toe to toe instead of defensive, just prepare if things go south like how Sarri did, I would be the first one complaining and criticizing 

Just now, cfcforeverfan said:

I am saying I dont really care how the game is played, if we lose, then there isnt much to talk about for me, because a lost is a lost

However, I would always prefer playing the Conte way of playing because it is the more stable and conservative way to play a big team, as I dont really want to see an embarrassing result and getting smashed 5-0 6-0 or even 7-0, because this is not an elite team should do. 

And if you wanna go toe to toe instead of defensive, just prepare if things go south like how Sarri did, I would be the first one complaining and criticizing 

But with those metrics i can raise the fact we won the reverse fixture at The Bridge under Sarri and didn't that season under Conte, so the toe to toe methods actually yielded more points.  

14 minutes ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

Please tell me that this is a joke. With the exemption of Ampadu. I challenge any coach in the world to get any of those players to play that position even competently. Say what you like I don't care who is manager, whether it be for Physicality or to move the ball quicker we definitely need reinforcements at CDM.

My point is that is on Lamps though; if he felt a DM was key he could have kept Ampadu & developed him. As things stand he either has to adapt Azpi, Christensen or dare I say Emerson into a DM, find a youth DM, or loan a DM. A loan might even be tricky presently as we have a large squad, and due to the pandemic can’t get rid of them. 

Lamps just has to be creative and find a solution in-house. 

26 minutes ago, Nick05 said:

Can somebody tell why we let Lamtpey go ? Maybe he was not big enough to be a fullback but couldve been a cracking winger with his pace.

Behind Reece James, wanted to develop and we didn't stand in his way.

22 minutes ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

Please tell me that this is a joke. With the exemption of Ampadu. I challenge any coach in the world to get any of those players to play that position even competently. Say what you like I don't care who is manager, whether it be for Physicality or to move the ball quicker we definitely need reinforcements at CDM.

Gilmour can play DM as can Gallagher. If we're looking from within for options those two are the best ones.

Edited January 22, 20215 yr by Argo

6 minutes ago, ducavis said:

My point is that is on Lamps though; if he felt a DM was key he could have kept Ampadu & developed him. As things stand he either has to adapt Azpi, Christensen or dare I say Emerson into a DM, find a youth DM, or loan a DM. A loan might even be tricky presently as we have a large squad, and due to the pandemic can’t get rid of them. 

Lamps just has to be creative and find a solution in-house. 

Yes, but to be fair to Lamps he let Barkley, Ampedu, RLT all go out on loan on the back of Kovacic's form last season. How was he to know that Kovacic would be a shadow of that player this term. With regards to the other players you mention, He's a Coach not a magician.

Miss the days when Frank first came in and people pretended we played amazing sexy football while drawing with mighty Sheffield at home. 

8 minutes ago, Argo said:

Gilmour can play DM as can Gallagher. If we're looking from within for options those two are the best ones.

Im all for Gilmour Argo, and id pitch him in next to mount at the base of our midfield with Havertz in front, whether its because of a lack of height and Presence I don't know, but its one of the few permatations that have yet to be tried.

2 hours ago, coco said:

City 6 - 0 Chelsea was a real eye opener.

I know. But that was one of two games, back to back, where things went wrong. 

Outside of that, there really isn't any eye opening results. But people parrot those two games as if that was happening every week. There were bad and turgid performances and I know I'm in a minority where I didn't mind too much, I was enjoying the style, but I shouldn't be in a minority who thinks those performances were a means to an end.

I accept Sarri bashing for how he engaged with the fans, how he never really wanted to be here after the (win!) In cardiff. But he gets bashed for those two results like it happened every week. He gets bashed for Hazard having his best season with us. He gets bashed for CHO and RLC being the first academy players to regularly feature for the first team since Terry because it took a couple of months longer than we'd have liked. 

All of the things some people bash him for, Lampard has been much worse at or just as bad at. Is Billy playing ahead of Jorginho yet? What academy players got a chance against Morecombe? Did anyone actually feel worse after 6-0 city or 3-0 city? 

Anyway. I'm so fed up of defending Sarri. I should really stop doing it, he didn't even want to he here. 

 

1 hour ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

Sorry are you referring to last season or this season? Last season our issues were clearly defensively, Scoring didn't seem to be too much of an issue, although I agree we could have been more clinical.

This season we started well enough but since the West Ham game where we were truly awful but won 3-0 we just seem devoid of any confidence. Last season Kovacic was far more effective, even Giorginho weighed in with some contribution, and we had Barkley. This season none of those are contributing in a vital area hence we are creating less, and what we are creating we're struggling with players low on confidence converting.

Im Surprised that Frank hasn't highlighted this area(defensive Midfield) as a problem, or does he not regard the slow and ponderous build up that most of us see as a problem, as a real issue and that our deficiancies in his opinion lie elsewhere?

What do I know bisright1, I coach the girls school team.

I agree. The problems were defensive! 

However Frank didnt. Frank thought the problems were that we weren't clinical enough. He said that in almost every bloody press conference last season. 

So when we go out and buy attacking players who score goals, you have to think that Frank did get what he wants!

I'm literally just pointing out that you can't say Frank wanted the defence fixed and the board didn't deliver. The whole club decided which players to sign and Frank was very much a part of that. 

1 hour ago, Bob stark said:

I personally disagree, lamp has one year free pass to asses what is the need for this team and he kinda work with blank canvas. We have many players with different quality with no untouchable except maybe kante so he can shape the team to anything he want. 

That's a great offer, to be fair, but I feel we should stick to football here and move all adult entertainment material to the non-football section of the forum.

2 hours ago, bisright1 said:

I asked for one more match than man city and bournemouth. 

You showed me a quote about us losing to Bournemouth (lol) as well as arsenal away and the first leg of a carabao cup semi final that we then went on to win!! It's hardly end of days 

And do I really give a sh*t about substitutions? No. I really don't know why people care so much about who is subbed. 

We had 2 bad losses. Outside of that our performances were as they should be for a team transitioning to a new style and our results were fantastic. 2 cup finals, barely dropped any points against the bottom half of table, competitive in every game against the top 6 bar the one Man City game. He brought RLC and CHO in to the first team. 

If Sarri hadn't been such a weirdo prick then we'd all have his name tattooed on our chest.

Ok, Everton away, utter garbage and beaten 2-0 which could have been 5. 

Southampton at home 0-0 scrap where we barely created any chances and looked completely lost.

Arsenal away, beaten 2-0 with 70 odd % possession but 1 shot on goal, just passing the ball around for the hell of it. centre back to Jorginho, back to centre back, back to jorginho, to full back, to centre back, to jorginho.....and carry on for 90 minutes.

Wolves at home, drew 1-1 with a last minute goal from Hazard, again loads of nonsense possession leading to barely a shot on goal worthy of the name (theres a pattern emerging here)

 

Hazard dragged us to wins throughout the entire season, he won us a minimum of 15 games with individual brilliance that owed nothing to Sarri`s system. It was sh*t to watch, it was sh*t to play in, it....was....sh*t.

Just now, dkw said:

Ok, Everton away, utter garbage and beaten 2-0 which could have been 5. 

Southampton at home 0-0 scrap where we barely created any chances and looked completely lost.

Arsenal away, beaten 2-0 with 70 odd % possession but 1 shot on goal, just passing the ball around for the hell of it. centre back to Jorginho, back to centre back, back to jorginho, to full back, to centre back, to jorginho.....and carry on for 90 minutes.

Wolves at home, drew 1-1 with a last minute goal from Hazard, again loads of nonsense possession leading to barely a shot on goal worthy of the name (theres a pattern emerging here)

 

Hazard dragged us to wins throughout the entire season, he won us a minimum of 15 games with individual brilliance that owed nothing to Sarri`s system. It was sh*t to watch, it was sh*t to play in, it....was....sh*t.

Those games happen. They happened last season. They will happen next season. They happen every year a team doesn't win the league and even then, they still happen. 

It was turgid to watch, but I actually liked it. It made sense to me. It was actively watching a team change its style completely and learn, and occasionally something exciting would happen. I was excited to see how it would develop the next year. I was excited to see how Sarri would adapt without hazard, would we be lifted the same way he lifted Napoli when their best player left. But it didn't happen. He left. Oh well. 

I don't get that same feeling with our team now. I don't feel like they are improving, that the team is learning. I don't think we will be better next year. 

24 minutes ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

Yes, but to be fair to Lamps he let Barkley, Ampedu, RLT all go out on loan on the back of Kovacic's form last season. How was he to know that Kovacic would be a shadow of that player this term. With regards to the other players you mention, He's a Coach not a magician.

Exactly this, but people seem happy to use hindsight to create more arguments against our manager. Its getting ridiculous in this thread now.

I think the only way out of this now is for Lampard to switch to 3 at the back. Or at the least utilize alot more.

If you look at the wins we got against better sides last season, alot of them was with a back 3. 

Wolves home and away

Spurs home and away

United fa cup

City at home, 

The only games we lost playing with a back 3 was liverpool away, and the cup final. 

He needs to change something drastically, I dont see the slight variation of switching from 433 to 4231 as enough of shift. 

Id even go with Havertz though the middle, it would give him less defensive reponsibilty, he has played it before, and if we sit a little deeper, and stop trying to have 80% possession, there will be space in behind. 

I think it would get the best out Werner aswell, he played in a 343 alot last season coming in from the left, and it would also give him tbe freedom to move all across the front as he did with Leipzig. 

Centre midfield, Mount is showing he can play in there, Kante would be in his most natural position, and even Jorginho and Kovacic had good games in that system against united. 

James and Chilwell wing backs, no issues, might even see Alonso get some action.

Centre backs, Thiago Silva in the middle,  dictating, and using his passing range to start attacks, similar to David Luiz under Conte. Azpi, Rudiger, Zouma and Christiensen have all played well in there before. 

I think its a last roll of the dice for Lampard, even if we pick up form and narrowly miss out on top 4, which at this stage looks a task to be honest, it wont be enough to keep his job i feel now. I think the only way he keeps his job, is if he gets the new signings back into form, and we somehow get top 4. 

Just now, bisright1 said:

Those games happen. They happened last season. They will happen next season. They happen every year a team doesn't win the league and even then, they still happen.

Quote

I asked for one more match than man city and bournemouth. 

Christ I give up.

3 minutes ago, dkw said:

Christ I give up.

Lol fair. I did think that. 

I meant to say give me one more game that was utterly embarrassing. Those games weren't embarrassing to me. A draw against southampton and wolves doesn't make me want to sack a manager. 

Our performances now are more painful than they were under Sarri. Because it feels like it's getting worse, not better. Sarri to me felt like it was getting better. It felt like the pain was for a reason. 

Edited January 22, 20215 yr by bisright1

Some like to blame Lampard for everything it seems.

Werner can't hit a cows arse with a banjo? Gotta be on Lampard that.
Havertz can't control a football, dribble or pass? Gotta look at the manager again really, he could have tought him to do so!!

 

 

In hindsight maybe keeping willian would have been a good idea when ever we have sh*t moments he seems to shine and his work rate is never in question he loves Chelsea and run his socks off for the badge, also maybe having Pedro around these young players would have been a good idea.

It seems we underestimated these guys influence on and off the pitch

With Sarri, as boring and turgid as some of those games were, (I think Southampton was probably the worse for me, barring the 3 horror shows), I always felt that he just needed time and the right personnel to have us playing how Napoli did, and lets be honest, his Napoli side were a good watch. 

Now with Lampard, he has nearly a whole 11 of players he either bought, or put enough faith in to bring through, and because he has no previous teams to compare to, its very difficult to see where he wants this team to go, and what he can do to get them playing how he wants. 

How can the club give him time and money, when there is nothing tangible he can put forward to argue he is right man to build and coach a world class team. 

They have already shown a massive leap of faith by hiring him, and backing him significantly in the market. Some of the most decorated managers in world football were never given this amount of support. 

I cant see the club rolling the dice again for another season, when there are proven coaches that jump at the chance of managing this group of players. 

Based on the way people tend to turn on managers on this forum I think it would be fair to say that many on here would be calling for Klopp out now if we were to swap Chelsea and Liverpool's results the last 2 seasons.