1 hour ago, bisright1 said:

Name another game.

City 6 - 0 Chelsea was a real eye opener.

Sarri finished top 3 so in the end of the day he did a good job. I also think that Conte did a good job even if we failed to finish in top 4 because we won the FA Cup.

We don't need to try and put down another manager in order to support Lampard, this season is still very open and anything can happen.

We had a worse squad last season and we managed to finish where we wanted so there is still enough time to get some crucial wins, it's highly unlikely that we keep losing and that we spend the whole season without winning against a top 4 team, the chances are that we will get out of this slumber soon enough.

17 minutes ago, coco said:

City 6 - 0 Chelsea was a real eye opener.

and people cry about Conte being extreme defensive against city and lose 1-0 the year before

all those fans that go against Conte approach the year before all vanished after the 6-0 loss lol

 

1 hour ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

I don't want it to seem that im obsessed with Defending Frank, but if I feel its valid I will fight his corner.

Every manager that comes in is expected to work with whats on the table, Frank has his own Blueprint for how he wants his side to play.

Apart from Silva and Chilwell, all the other players in the defensive third of the pitch(in my opinion a vital catalyst for his Blueprint) were already at the club.

I appreciate that when he arrived and given that we were under the transfer ban, there were several areas that the club felt needed strengthening and accordingly splashed 200m.

I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but I don't feel that the 200m they spent has addressed all of the deficiancies, 90m on Havertz, 50m on Chilwell is a large chunk of that outlay, would it not be a sensible idea to perhaps further invest on the areas where we are particularly weak, CDM and CD before dispensing with his services and not fully knowing whether his blueprint would have worked.

Too late pal there is no corner anymore this is a massive mosh pit!

Jokes aside Lampard had a really good transfer window but we lost Pedro and Willian and got Ziyech, we could have bought another winger since it was known that Pulisic struggles a bit with injuries so that's one of the reasons why we had some difficulties at some point because both ZIyech and Pulisic were injured at the same time. Other than that we improved our backline and got Havertz, most reports said that Lampard wanted Declan Rice so he might go for him in the summer. 

8 minutes ago, cfcforeverfan said:

and people cry about Conte being extreme defensive against city and lose 1-0 the year before

all those fans that go against Conte approach the year before all vanished after the 6-0 loss lol

Not me, I don't care if it was only 1-0, that was the most humiliated I ever felt as a Chelsea fan and what causes me to turn against Conte.

1 hour ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

I don't want it to seem that im obsessed with Defending Frank, but if I feel its valid I will fight his corner.

Every manager that comes in is expected to work with whats on the table, Frank has his own Blueprint for how he wants his side to play.

Apart from Silva and Chilwell, all the other players in the defensive third of the pitch(in my opinion a vital catalyst for his Blueprint) were already at the club.

I appreciate that when he arrived and given that we were under the transfer ban, there were several areas that the club felt needed strengthening and accordingly splashed 200m.

I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but I don't feel that the 200m they spent has addressed all of the deficiancies, 90m on Havertz, 50m on Chilwell is a large chunk of that outlay, would it not be a sensible idea to perhaps further invest on the areas where we are particularly weak, CDM and CD before dispensing with his services and not fully knowing whether his blueprint would have worked.

I personally disagree, lamp has one year free pass to asses what is the need for this team and he kinda work with blank canvas. We have many players with different quality with no untouchable except maybe kante so he can shape the team to anything he want. 

5 minutes ago, cfcforeverfan said:

and people cry about Conte being extreme defensive against city and lose 1-0 the year before

all those fans that go against Conte approach the year before all vanished after the 6-0 loss lol

 

And all the fans against Jose II vanished when Watford spanked Conte 4-1. What can we learn ? grass always looks greener....bla bla

2 minutes ago, Argo said:

Not me, I don't care if it was only 1-0, that was the most humiliated I ever felt as a Chelsea fan and what causes me to turn against Conte.

that game makes me appreciate him even more lol, he understand we cant win it and just play as conservative as possible and avoid humiliation 

going gung-ho and get smashed 6-0 only proved the naivety of the manager

2 minutes ago, coco said:

And all the fans against Jose II vanished when Watford spanked Conte 4-1. What can we learn ? grass always looks greener....bla bla

that season's City is unstoppable anyway, losing 1-0 isnt anything embarrassing and preserved our GD (although it doesnt help at the end, but in a league that count GD before Head to head, preserving a good GD is essential) 

I broke my laptop after watching the 4th goal goes in at the 6-0 game, the gameplan is just so naïve and so stupid i thought we were having a sunday league manager coaching

32 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Okay. But can you explain how frank repeatedly, and I mean almost every game, said the reason we werent winning more games is because we weren't clinical enough in the final 3rd. 

Frank wanted these players.

Sorry are you referring to last season or this season? Last season our issues were clearly defensively, Scoring didn't seem to be too much of an issue, although I agree we could have been more clinical.

This season we started well enough but since the West Ham game where we were truly awful but won 3-0 we just seem devoid of any confidence. Last season Kovacic was far more effective, even Giorginho weighed in with some contribution, and we had Barkley. This season none of those are contributing in a vital area hence we are creating less, and what we are creating we're struggling with players low on confidence converting.

Im Surprised that Frank hasn't highlighted this area(defensive Midfield) as a problem, or does he not regard the slow and ponderous build up that most of us see as a problem, as a real issue and that our deficiancies in his opinion lie elsewhere?

What do I know bisright1, I coach the girls school team.

17 minutes ago, Argo said:

Not me, I don't care if it was only 1-0, that was the most humiliated I ever felt as a Chelsea fan and what causes me to turn against Conte.

I find it ironic that so many complained about Conte's "30% possession" football but then came Sarri and they complained about the "60% possession" football.

Conte had a similar gameplan against Barcelona where we played 1:1 only due to a blunder from Christensen and that was largely seen as a brilliant tactical game and he kept saying that his squad can't play a more open game and in the end of the season he proved that his view about our squad was correct since with his style we won the FA Cup.

Sarri tried to play his own style and got punished hard but then played with a false 9 with Hazard and we won against City as well, I think that fans are not consistent with their view at all because Sarri is very much disliked even if he proved that his tactics can get us to where we want to be.

There was a huge problem with our squad so the difference from being super tight, and just keeping the ball with 0 risk passes and almost no crosses is just about how to deal with the big issues because both Conte and Sarri understood that we have a huge problem defensively, they just addressed it in a different way. Lampard didn't particularly try to set up the tactics for us to be better defensively last season and we conceded a whole lot of goals, part from playing with the 3 at the back obviously.

Edited January 22, 20215 yr by Gol15

The idea of pondering wheter Havertz, Werner, Mendy, Silva or Chilwell were Frank's choices is ludicrous. I don't even have to elaborate I think. 

When a manager takes the job he ties himself into some rules. The club asks him are you okay with these signings. If you say yes you take the responsibility, if you say no the club says we'll keep on looking or we need a new manager. 

5 minutes ago, cfcforeverfan said:

that game makes me appreciate him even more lol, he understand we cant win it and just play as conservative as possible and avoid humiliation 

going gung-ho and get smashed 6-0 only proved the naivety of the manager

Then how do you explain two season's later with a weaker squad Lampard going toe to toe with the runaway champions four times and us putting on a good account of ourselves on every single occasion?

1 minute ago, evissy said:

The idea of pondering wheter Havertz, Werner, Mendy, Silva or Chilwell were Frank's choices is ludicrous. I don't even have to elaborate I think. 

When a manager takes the job he ties himself into some rules. The club asks him are you okay with these signings. If you say yes you take the responsibility, if you say no the club says we'll keep on looking or we need a new manager. 

well i dont think it is that simple.

I am not saying Werner Havertz Chilwell arent Frank signings, he is definitely involved a lot in all those 3 signings and he should take the blame for 2 of them (140m+ signings) are performing terribly 

but simply saying the manager can just say no and the board will find another one or sign someone else is just too simplified, I am sure Conte wont really say yes to Zappacosta and Drinkwater nor Mourinho would say yes to Baba Rahmen, Michael Hector and papy djilobodji, there is just no way they are happy with these signings when an average fan would scratch their head asking what is happening

2 minutes ago, Argo said:

Then how do you explain two season's later with a weaker squad Lampard going toe to toe with the runaway champions four times and us putting on a good account of ourselves on every single occasion?

Did we win against the Liverpool last season? I remember we lost both of them

going toe to toe or not really doesnt matter to me, as I said before I dont mind 10 players standing in front of our goal and having 5% possession for the game. I only care about result. Losing 1-0 and 6-0 has a big difference in GD, simple as

4 hours ago, cfcforeverfan said:

show that given full power of the club, great managers can do a long term job in the same club

the problem is people and owners who arent football expertise love to get involved in football business and dont want to give the power to great managers these days

You know Diego Simone is the highest paid manager on the planet, on €42m/yr. Bar Messi doubt anyone in football earns close to him. He has also been at Atletico for 10yrs, and earned the right to get paid that amount, Atletico are also broke and been kept afloat by selling Griezmann, Rodri & Hernandez for big bucks.

Pls let’s put things in context, paying a manager €42m is madness. That is more than what Klopp & Pep earn combined. He might bankrupt the club if he ever gets fired.

Just now, cfcforeverfan said:

Did we win against the Liverpool last season? I remember we lost both of them

going toe to toe or not really doesnt matter to me, as I said before I dont mind 10 players standing in front of our goal and having 5% possession for the game. I only care about result. Losing 1-0 and 6-0 has a big difference in GD, simple as

First game in the super cup we matched them all the way, drew the game but unfortunately lost the shootout.

First league game were the better side but our poor finishing cost us. 

Cup game (ironically almost two years to the day from that disgrace) we had even more injury's, were forced to give a teenager with only 3 prior appearances a start at DM (well i say forced Conte would have probably stuck Zouma there and used that to justify not leaving our own area) and beat them comfortably.

Second league game we were the better side but a Kepa disasterclass meant we weren't rewarded with a result.

So if the only way our 17/18 squad could have "achieved" a narrow defeat vs the runaway champions by setting up like San Marino how do you explain a weaker squad having a 1-1-2 record and a 'only' a -1 goal difference vs the runaway champions over 4 games two seasons later? Not to mention, that same squad went toe to toe at The Ethiad aswell and only lost by a 1 goal margin. 

1 hour ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

I don't want it to seem that im obsessed with Defending Frank, but if I feel its valid I will fight his corner.

Every manager that comes in is expected to work with whats on the table, Frank has his own Blueprint for how he wants his side to play.

Apart from Silva and Chilwell, all the other players in the defensive third of the pitch(in my opinion a vital catalyst for his Blueprint) were already at the club.

I appreciate that when he arrived and given that we were under the transfer ban, there were several areas that the club felt needed strengthening and accordingly splashed 200m.

I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but I don't feel that the 200m they spent has addressed all of the deficiancies, 90m on Havertz, 50m on Chilwell is a large chunk of that outlay, would it not be a sensible idea to perhaps further invest on the areas where we are particularly weak, CDM and CD before dispensing with his services and not fully knowing whether his blueprint would have worked.

You just can’t keep throwing money at a problem in case it works, in this case we are talking big money. Paying £60m+ for a DM is madness; for that amount you better be buying a world class DM, not potential. 
 

An interesting thing is DM is an area you can temporarily apply a band aid. An experienced manager will adapt a CB or even a full back. The transfer window is open, I am pretty certain he can loan a DM. We actually have 2 specialist DMs on our books on loan in Drinkwater & Bakayoko, Ampadu can play that role, and Azpi & Christensen have played as DMs before. Sorry but the board aren’t giving him a penny as things stand, and rightly so.

Insightful reading some of the hypocrisy regarding wanting Sarri out and backing Frank no matter what. I too was Sarri out as the football became painful to watch and the football we are playing now seems the same and very similar to Sarri ball.

We invested heavily this summer and because we can't make excuses for lack of investment or large injury list people are now alluding to the fact that these weren't Franks targets. Absolutely incredible. Lets not forget Werner, Kai and Chilwell all said Frank was a big part of their decision after he called them, so Frank did have a large input in the transfers. Ridiculous the amount of excuses that are being made up right now. 

5 minutes ago, Argo said:

First game in the super cup we matched them all the way, drew the game but unfortunately lost the shootout.

First league game were the better side but our poor finishing cost us. 

Cup game (ironically almost two years to the day from that disgrace) we had even more injury's, were forced to give a teenager with only 3 prior appearances a start at DM (well i say forced Conte would have probably stuck Zouma there and used that to justify not leaving our own area) and beat them comfortably.

Second league game we were the better side but a Kepa disasterclass meant we weren't rewarded with a result.

So if the only way our 17/18 squad could have "achieved" a narrow defeat vs the runaway champions by setting up like San Marino how do you explain a weaker squad having a 1-1-2 record and a 'only' a -1 goal difference vs the runaway champions over 4 games two seasons later? Not to mention, that same squad went toe to toe at The Ethiad aswell and only lost by a 1 goal margin. 

Sorry but we were definitely not the better side in that 3-5 loss. We played well for about 15-20 minutes in the second half when Pulisic came on but by that time the game was well out of reach. Liverpool were clinical and I was relieved that they decided to coast after establishing a cushion. Otherwise it could've been 7 or 8.

1 minute ago, Nick05 said:

Sorry but we were definitely not the better side in that 3-5 loss. We played well for about 15-20 minutes in the second half when Pulisic came on but by that time the game was well out of reach. Liverpool were clinical and I was relieved that they decided to coast after establishing a cushion. Otherwise it could've been 7 or 8.

Pretty sure we started the better side then let in three quickfire goals none of which would have happened with Mendy in nets.

Conte and Sarri are very professional managers, conte whines a lot when he doesn’t get what he wants but he changed us to 3 at the back and converted Moses to wing back and made it work when we’d been 4 3 3 for many years   

and despite the criticism at the time conte axing costa was absolutely the right thing for Chelsea  as for Sarri the poor bastard had to work with Morata and higuain and still did well  

klopps having a bad patch but his track record is fantastic  he will always be a legend at Liverpool and I guess Dortmund  

anyway  I wonder if Tomori could be right back as an alternative to Dave and if James is injured? The full backs 

I think Werner should probably go back to no 9 and be left there  He was bought as a striker.  Werner was -laying great when he arrived, now he languishing on the bench, and being played out of position in a system where wingers and full backs get in each other’s way. 

if Havertz is no 10  then we need two defensive midfielders  so for me that would meant Mount playing deeper or not playing   If Havertz isn’t no 10 then maybe it should be ziyech because mount is not a no 10  equally if we -Kay attacking midfielders all over the place the the full backs have to sit deeper  

Lampard is supposed to be a bright boy  he has about a month to get things back on track  that’s the reality  

 

Hi guys, here’s a little piece (my first piece of writing) on our current situation and why I think it’s unfair to contemplate sacking Frank at this stage! Hope you enjoy 🤞https://thecfcway.blogspot.com/2021/01/time-to-back-frank.html?m=1

2 minutes ago, Argo said:

Pretty sure we started the better side then let in three quickfire goals none of which would have happened with Mendy in nets.

Kepa was not good but on a whole our defense and midfield were generally very porous all through last season. Teams could cut right through with a just a few passes. If Kepa had even been average then the spotlight would've been on the lack of defensive structure and coaching by Frank. But Kepa was so poor that he hogged all that negative spotlight. Kepa was bad but he was always exposed by that defence.

PS - that shot by Keita was a rocket. 

Can somebody tell why we let Lamtpey go ? Maybe he was not big enough to be a fullback but couldve been a cracking winger with his pace.