2 hours ago, Argo said:

...no positive attribute to fall back on, it was 10 men and some guy up front doing his own thing.

 

2 hours ago, Argo said:

...not only a horrifically sh*t footballer with no real strengths to speak off he took absolutely zero responsibility for his performances either.

 

24 minutes ago, wizardous said:

...was on the pitch, for most of the time, it felt like we were playing with 10 men.

Hence the Torres comparison. That could be explaining Timo.

The only chance for Werner to get minutes is the right hand side where he can rotate with Ziyech because in the middle Lukaku and Haverz will be keeping him on the bench and on the left side CHO and Pulisic.

He really wasted this chance to impress against Man United.

6 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

The only chance for Werner to get minutes is the right hand side where he can rotate with Ziyech because in the middle Lukaku and Haverz will be keeping him on the bench and on the left side CHO and Pulisic.

He really wasted this chance to impress against Man United.

He really is quite superb at wasting chances.

As I've just mentioned in another thread, his miss at 1-0 when he tried to bend it in with his right foot when he only had to hit the target with his left had me completely bewildered. Such a poor attempt and no matter how hard he works off the ball, his poor technique is hurting the side. Couple this with his poor movement within the box and we have a player who couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo literally!

I like him, his personally, his effort, he seems to be popular in the squad.

I wished more than any other player that things would turn for him and was sure it would this season.

However I think I’ve had it. Can’t take any more of these let downs. I think he will probably have to move on for his own sake. When the crowds came back they give him brilliant support but I can see that changing and I don’t want to witness that.

3 hours ago, charierre said:

As I've just mentioned in another thread, his miss at 1-0 when he tried to bend it in with his right foot when he only had to hit the target with his left had me completely bewildered. Such a poor attempt and no matter how hard he works off the ball, his poor technique is hurting the side. Couple this with his poor movement within the box and we have a player who couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo literally!

Poor movement within the box?

I fully agree with the rest of your post but his movement within the box is far from poor...

1 hour ago, wizardous said:

Poor movement within the box?

I fully agree with the rest of your post but his movement within the box is far from poor...

Did you watch Sunday?  Caught on his heels twice…something Shearer picked up on MOTD2. 
 

https://www.newsgroove.co.uk/we-were-screaming-alan-shearer-and-ian-wright-frustrated-by-chelseas-timo-werner-during-manchester-united-draw/

Edited November 30, 20214 yr by charierre

On 30/11/2021 at 03:38, axman2526 said:

JFH damning verdict of Werner:

https://metro.co.uk/2021/11/28/chelsea-hasselbaink-keane-blast-timo-werner-man-utd-draw-15679208/?fbclid=IwAR2mDALExIL-t7_Y_DJO3Fi7I0pxzD9j-bw-YmodXf3Q_JH1Hdz0YVYQe-M

 

I've said it all along, @just and JFH are actually the same person.

1 hour ago, SydneyChelsea said:

 

I've said it all along, @just and JFH are actually the same person.

Ah...

12 hours ago, charierre said:

Did you watch Sunday?  Caught on his heels twice…something Shearer picked up on MOTD2. 
 

https://www.newsgroove.co.uk/we-were-screaming-alan-shearer-and-ian-wright-frustrated-by-chelseas-timo-werner-during-manchester-united-draw/

It's not as simple as that in my opinion. On Sunday he showed a clear lack of match fitness, just as Tuchel pointed out. He shouldn't have started the game and to be fair that is Tuchel's mistake. Plus their defenders did a very good job and were quick enough to close him down.

My point is there wasn't much he could've done in these circumstances, except for that chance at 1-0. Still, he managed to create space for himself twice, and if CHO had been aware of that, it would've been two sitters for Werner...

29 minutes ago, wizardous said:

It's not as simple as that in my opinion. On Sunday he showed a clear lack of match fitness, just as Tuchel pointed out. He shouldn't have started the game and to be fair that is Tuchel's mistake. Plus their defenders did a very good job and were quick enough to close him down.

My point is there wasn't much he could've done in these circumstances, except for that chance at 1-0. Still, he managed to create space for himself twice, and if CHO had been aware of that, it would've been two sitters for Werner...

His movement outside the box  is good. Inside as Shearer pointed out he should be making runs into the 6 yd box as was the case with two Reece James crosses in the first half. He was static in both cases. I actually thought the analyses of him on MOTD2 was very fair and correct by someone knew how to create space for themselves successfully in the box. At some point or other we have to accept he isn't the free scoring forward we were hoping to gain, its easy to blame others for what is poor technique. 

So @Argo and @just I was wondering, wondering you think about more useless to us as our main forward. Werner or Lukaku?

17 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

So @Argo and @just I was wondering, wondering you think about more useless to us as our main forward. Werner or Lukaku?

To be fair we won the Ucl with Werner

17 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

So @Argo and @just I was wondering, wondering you think about more useless to us as our main forward. Werner or Lukaku?

To be fair we won the Ucl with Werner

13 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

So @Argo and @just I was wondering, wondering you think about more useless to us as our main forward. Werner or Lukaku?

For all Werner's faults he's still a tactical use in this system with his pressing, pace and movement. Up until CHO's recent burst all our good/great and average/poor performances seemed to correlate with whether Werner started. Around the end of last season I actually listed the matches on here and the difference was astronomical, I can't be arsed to search for it but if you want too it's there.

Lukaku isn't a completely sh*t player (yet, I'm worried he will turn into one as I pointed out in my post earlier) but he just does not fit this system and the most frustrating thing is it was so obvious he wouldn't before he signed. I didn't want him then either but in 2017 I got the logic as to why we would have wanted him, getting him in this team however was criminal. We literally sold Tammy because he didn't suit the system only to replace him with a player of similar flaws.

1 minute ago, The Don Antonio said:

To be fair we won the Ucl with Werner

Yes we did, and manage to score the goals to do so despite him missing sitters nearly every game.

2 minutes ago, Argo said:

For all Werner's faults he's still a tactical use in this system with his pressing, pace and movement. Up until CHO's recent burst all our good/great and average/poor performances seemed to correlate with whether Werner started. Around the end of last season I actually listed the matches on here and the difference was astronomical, I can't be arsed to search for it but if you want too it's there.

Lukaku isn't a completely sh*t player (yet, I'm worried he will turn into one as I pointed out in my post earlier) but he just does not fit this system and the most frustrating thing is it was so obvious he wouldn't before he signed. I didn't want him then either but in 2017 I got the logic as to why we would have wanted him, getting him in this team however was criminal. We literally sold Tammy because he didn't suit the system only to replace him with a player of similar flaws.

Very good analysis mate. 

Curious as to how @just sees it as arguably Werners biggest critic on here.

2 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Yes we did, and manage to score the goals to do so despite him missing sitters nearly every game.

At least he was there to miss the chances and also create chances for others. We cant forget his assists also. 

1 minute ago, The Don Antonio said:

At least he was there to miss the chances and also create chances for others. We cant forget his assists also. 

He was indeed and he likely would have been a better choice when leading against West Ham to come on than Lukaku.

Point I am more making as a comparison between the 2 as lead strikers.

For me werner offers more on the left side of the attack, where Pulisic and CHO prefer to play. As the main forward I feel he is a fair bit less effective.

Just now, axman2526 said:

He was indeed and he likely would have been a better choice when leading against West Ham to come on than Lukaku.

Point I am more making as a comparison between the 2 as lead strikers.

For me werner offers more on the left side of the attack, where Pulisic and CHO prefer to play. As the main forward I feel he is a fair bit less effective.

I actually think he can do a job down the middle like he did in the Westham fixture last season. He just sucks against a low block but that can be negated with faster transitions instead of our bullsh*t hold possesion until the team has everyone behind the ball

1 minute ago, The Don Antonio said:

I actually think he can do a job down the middle like he did in the Westham fixture last season. He just sucks against a low block but that can be negated with faster transitions instead of our bullsh*t hold possesion until the team has everyone behind the ball

Funny thing is the 2 of them would probably be ideal for Conte in his counter attacking 3 5 2. Just send out long balls for them to chase.

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

He was indeed and he likely would have been a better choice when leading against West Ham to come on than Lukaku.

Point I am more making as a comparison between the 2 as lead strikers.

For me werner offers more on the left side of the attack, where Pulisic and CHO prefer to play. As the main forward I feel he is a fair bit less effective.

I have been contemplating this a lot too -- I'd be interested in Tuchel telling those 3, ok, I am rotating you throughout the next few games in the same position  (left forward or winger behind the 9).

In particular, Werner or CHO would start and press hard for the first 60 - 65' knowing that they are going to be subbed at that mark -- run the other guys ragged. Then Puli runs at tired legs for the last 30' with his best skill-set, direct to goal with fast dribbling.

I think those roles could bring out the best in all 3 guys.

Edited December 4, 20214 yr by PetrCechYourself

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

Very good analysis mate. 

Curious as to how @just sees it as arguably Werners biggest critic on here.

Well Werner has pace. Lukaku has the physical presence.

Unfortunately, if you want a player that scores goals it's not Timo Werner. And if you want a player that works hard it's not Romelu Lukaku.

Youse pay your money, (quite a lot of money as it turns out), and youse take your choice. Personally I'd probably see what Drogba and Kerry Dixon are doing at the moment. Failing that Jorginho is deadly from the penalty spot, perhaps give him a go up there?

What do you think?

 

24 minutes ago, just said:

Well Werner has pace. Lukaku has the physical presence.

Unfortunately, if you want a player that scores goals it's not Timo Werner. And if you want a player that works hard it's not Romelu Lukaku.

Youse pay your money, (quite a lot of money as it turns out), and youse take your choice. Personally I'd probably see what Drogba and Kerry Dixon are doing at the moment. Failing that Jorginho is deadly from the penalty spot, perhaps give him a go up there?

What do you think?

 

Definitely Drogba for me. Don't see an increase work rate on Lukaku with Jorgi so no to that idea.

Basically we are damned if we do or damned if we don't.

Apparently Rangnick is hiring some backroom staff who is in some way linked to Werner and could want to sign him. Could be a chance to flog him and recoup the fee and reroll the dice on someone else?