I know we bought Werner for his goals and to play Center Forward... but you can clearly see he is much more suited to play wide and off the striker. I think we'll definitely see him start to contribute more from those areas of the pitch. If you look at his stats from last season, he fetched in very similar to what Willian would contribute on a regular basis and we all loved him. Maybe a slightly unpopular opinion but I always thought he could be very wasteful... 

23 hours ago, franklintorch said:

I know we bought Werner for his goals and to play Center Forward... but you can clearly see he is much more suited to play wide and off the striker. I think we'll definitely see him start to contribute more from those areas of the pitch. If you look at his stats from last season, he fetched in very similar to what Willian would contribute on a regular basis and we all loved him. Maybe a slightly unpopular opinion but I always thought he could be very wasteful... 

Werner is like a hybrid of Pedro snd Willian he has the ability to win a game and provide athleticism yet,you would rely on either of those two players to win a championship championship you. He's part of an important puzzle that will bring home the gold. 

He'll win you games just not every match day, he needs at least 1-2 other top players to share the goalscoring burden with at a top top team at the highest level.

He's going to score a brace today, can feel it

1 hour ago, PhilH930 said:

He's going to score a brace today, can feel it

Your corns acting up again?

He's a very likable guy for a teammate. Bust his guts every game, you just wish he has better composure in front of goal.

Maybe he needs to watch Salah's videos or something. 

He is such a frustrating player. Gets into so many promising positions but can't shoot to save his life. He should have scored at least once today, but these days nobody expects him to score even if he's one on one with the keeper

Appalling footballer. No technical skills and ability at all. His complete misread of the pass from Kante in the second half and his stutterstep move proves for me he is not, and never will be, a natural born striker.

We need to got shot of him before we get lumbered with him long term.

5 hours ago, just said:

Appalling footballer. No technical skills and ability at all. His complete misread of the pass from Kante in the second half and his stutterstep move proves for me he is not, and never will be, a natural born striker.

We need to got shot of him before we get lumbered with him long term.

You must of been watching a different game, he was the only forward player that was doing anything yesterday. 

6 hours ago, Oli said:

You must of been watching a different game, he was the only forward player that was doing anything yesterday. 

Hes not wrong. Shocking footballer masked by his effort and hard work. Anticipation is zero, composure is zero and finishing is zero.

20 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Hes not wrong. Shocking footballer masked by his effort and hard work. Anticipation is zero, composure is zero and finishing is zero.

Find it hard to disagree with that at this point.

Works very hard yes, but there are hundreds of footballers who would work very hard if they got a chance to play for Chelsea.

In terms of actual quality he's been below mediocre for us. No clear indictation he's improving either. In the end he's another example of someone shining in the Bundesliga only to struggle big-time here in England. 

We are competing against Liverpool, City and United (especially if they sack their manager) and all of them have 4-6 attackers I would take over Werner any day. So our competitors reserves are better than Werner who's a starter for us.

I’m just glad that our stadium/away ends are full of people that back Timo every step of the way instead of slagging him off like people are in here.

I’m going to competently disagree with most of what’s been said. Shocking footballer? No chance. Like it or not Werner is one of our most important players, I know if I have a choice of playing Timo/Mount/Kai with Lukaku I’m choosing Timo nearly every time.

I’m not gonna disagree that he needs to start scoring goals but to say that he ‘only works hard’ is massively harsh on him, he’s an intelligent player that combines it with hard work, it’s not as if he’s just running around like a headless chicken

Appalling footballer some say....

....yet, in a team that pays to his strengths, he is still one of the most effective forwards on the planet.

Why we refuse to at least give it a try is beyond me. The same is true of Lukaku, instead of playing to his strengths, we are trying to turn him into Chris Wood of Burnley.

The instruction has to be "pass the ball forward quickly" - THAT is the way to get the best of Timo and Lukaku .... but no, instead we insist with the super slow, inch it forward to azpi, who checks inside, knocks it back to kante etc etc etc stagnant football we have seen for years.

For what its worth, I do agree that Werner is not a natural footballer. Touch and finish is severely lacking. BUT, he is still super effective if used in the right way. We just refuse to play that way. And for those pointing out that Kante tried 1 pass that wasnt read by Werner...well, for each 1 tried, there were another 10 when he refused to play the ball quicker. We shouldnt be talking about 1 attempt at a quick forward pass between the lines, there should be 10s of such balls every game.

 

3 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Appalling footballer some say....

....yet, in a team that pays to his strengths, he is still one of the most effective forwards on the planet.

Why we refuse to at least give it a try is beyond me. The same is true of Lukaku, instead of playing to his strengths, we are trying to turn him into Chris Wood of Burnley.

The instruction has to be "pass the ball forward quickly" - THAT is the way to get the best of Timo and Lukaku .... but no, instead we insist with the super slow, inch it forward to azpi, who checks inside, knocks it back to kante etc etc etc stagnant football we have seen for years.

For what its worth, I do agree that Werner is not a natural footballer. Touch and finish is severely lacking. BUT, he is still super effective if used in the right way. We just refuse to play that way. And for those pointing out that Kante tried 1 pass that wasnt read by Werner...well, for each 1 tried, there were another 10 when he refused to play the ball quicker. We shouldnt be talking about 1 attempt at a quick forward pass between the lines, there should be 10s of such balls every game.

 

I enjoyed that post Jim. There are so many contradictions in there it has to be some kind of record.

I especially liked; "he is still one of the most effective forwards on the planet" but then you acknowledge "touch and finish is severely lacking"

On an associated point regarding the supposed slow build-up and passing from the midfield should we assume you would not have Jorginho anywhere near our starting lineup given his penchant for short balls and lack of creative, incisive forwards passing?

The reason myself and others have picked up on Timo fluffing the Kante pass is because it was such a peach of a ball into him. It literally said "hello blondie, make the run, put your big size 10 through me and nestle me in the back of that onion bag there". Put that ball into Salah, Mane, Son, Ronaldo and they would have been on it in a flash. Not Werner he started, stopped and did something that looked suspiciously like a 1970's disco move. His anticipation and movement was so poor he made it easy for the defender to snuff out the danger. And we have seen it time and time again from him in similar situations. He just isn't a natural striker.

Edited October 18, 20214 yr by just

On 17/10/2021 at 13:42, just said:

Appalling footballer. No technical skills and ability at all. His complete misread of the pass from Kante in the second half and his stutterstep move proves for me he is not, and never will be, a natural born striker.

We need to got shot of him before we get lumbered with him long term.

If you take out the Natural born striker part Just all thar could be applied to Lukaku too.

14 hours ago, axman2526 said:

If you take out the Natural born striker part Just all thar could be applied to Lukaku too.

JFH, axman. Didn't have great touch. Couldn't dribble. Aerial ability on par with Jody Morris. Bit poo at passing. Often lazy. Liked a good old moan and some arm waving.

BUT give him a ball anywhere in and around the oppo's box and he usually hit the target. Verdict. Not a great technical footballer but a natural born striker. Werner, sadly, is neither.

Edited October 19, 20214 yr by just

50 minutes ago, just said:

JFH, axman. Didn't have great touch. Couldn't dribble. Aerial ability on par with Jody Morris. Bit poo at passing. Often lazy. Liked a good old moan and some arm waving.

BUT give him a ball anywhere in and around the oppo's box and he usually hit the target. Verdict. Not a great technical footballer but a natural born striker. Werner, sadly, is neither.

Yeah the JFH comparison is the worry for me. Much as we love him, we won nothing till he left.

21 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Yeah the JFH comparison is the worry for me. Much as we love him, we won nothing till he left.

In fact @Just will argue that it was Jimmy's 24 goals in 34 appearances that got Atletico relagated.

On 18/10/2021 at 23:10, just said:

I enjoyed that post Jim. There are so many contradictions in there it has to be some kind of record.

I especially liked; "he is still one of the most effective forwards on the planet" but then you acknowledge "touch and finish is severely lacking"

On an associated point regarding the supposed slow build-up and passing from the midfield should we assume you would not have Jorginho anywhere near our starting lineup given his penchant for short balls and lack of creative, incisive forwards passing?

The reason myself and others have picked up on Timo fluffing the Kante pass is because it was such a peach of a ball into him. It literally said "hello blondie, make the run, put your big size 10 through me and nestle me in the back of that onion bag there". Put that ball into Salah, Mane, Son, Ronaldo and they would have been on it in a flash. Not Werner he started, stopped and did something that looked suspiciously like a 1970's disco move. His anticipation and movement was so poor he made it easy for the defender to snuff out the danger. And we have seen it time and time again from him in similar situations. He just isn't a natural striker.

What contradictions? For what its worth, I stand by my comments.

Timo's touch is lacking and his finishing is, well, we all know how bad that has been....

...But few other forwards scare defenders quite as much, pull them out of comfortable positions, have the pace to worry and make them think, have the work rate to chase players down, contribute to the number of assists etc. All things that Timo is undoubtedly effective at.  Just take a look at our champions league final winning goal, Timos makes the run, pulling the defender out of position, which made the space allowing the ball to be played to Kai. That is really effective forward play in my opinion (hence the effective forward comment). Of course, had he been in the havertz position for that goal, he would probably have fluffed his lines (hence the touch and finish comment).

So we have a player who has certain strengths and a number of weaknesses. His strengths being pace and movement to be played in behind. His weaknesses being his touch and general play when crowded by defenders. 

The managers job is to decide if we play to those strengths or weaknesses.

When we play to his strengths, he is very effective. Some examples that spring to mind:

- His goals against Southampton last season, particularly the second one... quick ball forward, playing Timo in behind. Goal.

-Or his goal away to Burnley -  ball forward for him to run onto. Goal.

- Or his goal at home to Sheffield Utd - ball in behind for him to run onto. Goal.

- Or the foul that led to the penalty away to Sheffield Utd. Ball played forward early for him to run onto. GK brings Timo down. Pen. Goal.

- Or his wrongly disallowed goal against Liverpool - quick ball forward for him to run onto. Goal

But instead of playing to these strengths, which have proven to be effective,  we instead insist on playing in a way that further highlights his weaknesses. Slow, stagnant build up play is NEVER going to get the best of Timo (or Rom) in my opinion. If we continue to play that way, then it is going to severely blunt their effectiveness.

 

 

6 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

What contradictions? For what its worth, I stand by my comments.

Timo's touch is lacking and his finishing is, well, we all know how bad that has been....

...But few other forwards scare defenders quite as much, pull them out of comfortable positions, have the pace to worry and make them think, have the work rate to chase players down, contribute to the number of assists etc. All things that Timo is undoubtedly effective at.  Just take a look at our champions league final winning goal, Timos makes the run, pulling the defender out of position, which made the space allowing the ball to be played to Kai. That is really effective forward play in my opinion (hence the effective forward comment). Of course, had he been in the havertz position for that goal, he would probably have fluffed his lines (hence the touch and finish comment).

So we have a player who has certain strengths and a number of weaknesses. His strengths being pace and movement to be played in behind. His weaknesses being his touch and general play when crowded by defenders. 

The managers job is to decide if we play to those strengths or weaknesses.

When we play to his strengths, he is very effective. Some examples that spring to mind:

- His goals against Southampton last season, particularly the second one... quick ball forward, playing Timo in behind. Goal.

-Or his goal away to Burnley -  ball forward for him to run onto. Goal.

- Or his goal at home to Sheffield Utd - ball in behind for him to run onto. Goal.

- Or the foul that led to the penalty away to Sheffield Utd. Ball played forward early for him to run onto. GK brings Timo down. Pen. Goal.

- Or his wrongly disallowed goal against Liverpool - quick ball forward for him to run onto. Goal

But instead of playing to these strengths, which have proven to be effective,  we instead insist on playing in a way that further highlights his weaknesses. Slow, stagnant build up play is NEVER going to get the best of Timo (or Rom) in my opinion. If we continue to play that way, then it is going to severely blunt their effectiveness.

 

 

Yep. Our players has the speed to exploit spaces which we don't use enough.

First time I saw him live last night. Me and my cousin were laughing to ourselves when he messed that shot early on and said "we've witnessed the horror show in real life". This is Werner ladies and gentleman. He won't suddenly change. Just have to accept it now.

18 hours ago, KonaKai Blue said:

First time I saw him live last night. Me and my cousin were laughing to ourselves when he messed that shot early on and said "we've witnessed the horror show in real life". This is Werner ladies and gentleman. He won't suddenly change. Just have to accept it now.

I dunno, this injury maybe will straighten his foot out and he will actually hit the target now...we can hope.

Werner wasn't impressed by the orange gum

Good to see him at the game - hopefully won't be out long.   

On 23/10/2021 at 14:56, Gol15 said:

Werner wasn't impressed by the orange gum

He's a fussy lad, how does his song go ?.. 'could've been a scouser but said get f**ked.