What's really sh*tty is that everyone got an apology from VAR but us.

Incompetence is one thing but they don't even hide their bias anymore. 

Ofc Potter won't even talk about it

20 minutes ago, Deino said:

What's really sh*tty is that everyone got an apology from VAR but us.

Incompetence is one thing but they don't even hide their bias anymore. 

Ofc Potter won't even talk about it

They let it be known, off the record, that they believe the ref and VAR made the right call not to award the penalty in the Hammers game, but they don't have the balls to come out publicly about it cause most people disagree with them.

3 hours ago, axman2526 said:

They let it be known, off the record, that they believe the ref and VAR made the right call not to award the penalty in the Hammers game, but they don't have the balls to come out publicly about it cause most people disagree with them.

Ok but then they also admit to not drawing lines that allows Brentford's goal to stand. 

So which is it? 

9 hours ago, Deino said:

Ok but then they also admit to not drawing lines that allows Brentford's goal to stand. 

So which is it? 

Offside either is or is not with the technology they have, handball still has Grey areas too it.

13 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Offside either is or is not with the technology they have, handball still has Grey areas too it.

It's not really grey is it? The bloke dropped to the ground with an outstretched arm perfectly there to remove any momentum of the ball.

This is from the same VAR that gave Reece James a handball in the game against Liverpool years ago. 

1 hour ago, Deino said:

It's not really grey is it? The bloke dropped to the ground with an outstretched arm perfectly there to remove any momentum of the ball.

This is from the same VAR that gave Reece James a handball in the game against Liverpool years ago. 

Indeed, the ref covering VAR at the time gave the pen against James, different ref made different choice for the West Ham player. Still allows personal bias or interpretation. Offside is like the Hawkeye goal line system, either offside or onside, over the line or not, black or white etc. No human interpretation. So they can hide behind it for the hand ball, they cannot for offside errors.

6 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Indeed, the ref covering VAR at the time gave the pen against James, different ref made different choice for the West Ham player. Still allows personal bias or interpretation. Offside is like the Hawkeye goal line system, either offside or onside, over the line or not, black or white etc. No human interpretation. So they can hide behind it for the hand ball, they cannot for offside errors.

The drawing of lines (position such as arm vs. foot, and general interpretation) coupled with the timing of when to pause leaves much to be desired.  Perhaps these flaws still exist, but I would advocate for two things:

1. Implement the system Fifa used in the world cup
2. Configure the Fifa system for offside to be daylight by a goalscoring part of the body - favor attackers more.  I really dislike the marginal calls of an inch or so

VAR can be refined, but it can never be perfected. As i've said for a decade now, decision review systems are impossible to perfect because of the statistical problem of the familywise error rate. 

VAR offside is a travesty. FIFA's system showed improvement but there were still major offside controversies in a short tournament, so I hesitate to see how that would be any different in a longer league campaign.

Technology is great where there is a discrete answer. This is goal-line technology, or Hawk-eye in tennis, where the answer is unambiguously yes or no. The moment some margin of error, discretion or interpretation is introduced, the statistical problem above rears its head. Other examples include video refereeing in rugby league and DRS in cricket, both of which have had the same high-profile failures as VAR.

I think that offside should be removed from VAR and left entirely to the referee's opinion. There is no utilty to punishing people for minute differences in timing, where they do not gain any significant advantage. There will be controversy, and people will just get over it.

42 minutes ago, SydneyChelsea said:

VAR can be refined, but it can never be perfected. As i've said for a decade now, decision review systems are impossible to perfect because of the statistical problem of the familywise error rate. 

VAR offside is a travesty. FIFA's system showed improvement but there were still major offside controversies in a short tournament, so I hesitate to see how that would be any different in a longer league campaign.

Technology is great where there is a discrete answer. This is goal-line technology, or Hawk-eye in tennis, where the answer is unambiguously yes or no. The moment some margin of error, discretion or interpretation is introduced, the statistical problem above rears its head. Other examples include video refereeing in rugby league and DRS in cricket, both of which have had the same high-profile failures as VAR.

I think that offside should be removed from VAR and left entirely to the referee's opinion. There is no utilty to punishing people for minute differences in timing, where they do not gain any significant advantage. There will be controversy, and people will just get over it.

The problem with VAR looking at offsides is that it is clinical at the end product but subjective at the moment the ball leaves the boot. The law needs to be upgraded to suit the technology…maybe two have to be offside or clear daylight or like you suggested return it to the domain of the linesman who in the main got decisions correct. The truth is the whole rule became a mess the moment they started ruling as to who was interfering with play. As Cloughy said if he isn’t interfering with play what’s he doing on the pitch?

It's not a technology problem, but people watching the video and keep the online referee updated in real time. The handball incident on the weekend, the least the video referee should have done is tell the on field referee to have a look, if he sticks with his decision, that's another story. The offside is just a fuss depends, you got the United incident a few weeks ago, clear offside but somehow VAR managed to make it legal. The Havertz offside on the weekend, even in real time it looked close, never got checked properly.

Not going to be a popular opinion, but if we are going to rely on technology, may just cut the middle man ( those referees watching the replay) out. Soon AI will be smart enough to check offside, handball, just beep the on field referee to have a look. At least with that, it's either technology not sufficient, or the on field referee making a call based on replay, and we just have to live with that.

 

Coming here to say that football can be so much more enjoyable and straight forward when VAR is not involved. There were two possible penalties not called by the ref on Wednesday (one for each team), but the teams and supporters played on, celebrations were spontaneous and no waiting for those pricks in the VAR room to approve or deny the goal. The ref, in my opinion, had a relatively good and easy game too, which helps. VAR was introduced to correct clear mistakes made by the ref and stop the controversies,  but it has increased the controversy and everyone now talks about the VAR decisions for a week. Get rid of it or get rid of the idiots running the refereeing.

On 03/11/2023 at 02:46, RMH said:

Coming here to say that football can be so much more enjoyable and straight forward when VAR is not involved. There were two possible penalties not called by the ref on Wednesday (one for each team), but the teams and supporters played on, celebrations were spontaneous and no waiting for those pricks in the VAR room to approve or deny the goal. The ref, in my opinion, had a relatively good and easy game too, which helps. VAR was introduced to correct clear mistakes made by the ref and stop the controversies,  but it has increased the controversy and everyone now talks about the VAR decisions for a week. Get rid of it or get rid of the idiots running the refereeing.

Not sure if there were other calls in other games but, as much as I enjoyed what resulted from the ref errors, I got why Arteta and O'Neil were so upset.

Looks to me like the ball went out, and certainly Joelinton found Gabriel.

Baldock also was going down to win the pen before Silva made the slightest contact with him.

3 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Not sure if there were other calls in other games but, as much as I enjoyed what resulted from the ref errors, I got why Arteta and O'Neil were so upset.

Looks to me like the ball went out, and certainly Joelinton found Gabriel.

Baldock also was going down to win the pen before Silva made the slightest contact with him.

There was no way of telling if it went out, so going with on field decision was correct.

No way on earth was that a foul on Gabriel, he threw himself at the ball. Funny how Arteta didn't mention that Havertz should have been sent of, twice.

The wolves one though was a disgrace, never a penalty, the Sheffield players did t even try and claim it, just got up and played on, no one on that stadium thought it was a penalty other than the ref and VAR, farcical. 

It probably sounds harsh but I genuinely can't see a case for any football fan enjoying VAR in its current form and the whole "it's the people using it that are the problem, not the technology" doesn't hold water either because VAR takes away the ability to celebrate a goal properly. Changes to the game should be made to make it more enjoyable to the fan and I guarantee most fans will say it's made it worse. Until they have the ability to make every decision instant it has no business being in football.

4 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Not sure if there were other calls in other games but, as much as I enjoyed what resulted from the ref errors, I got why Arteta and O'Neil were so upset.

Looks to me like the ball went out, and certainly Joelinton found Gabriel.

Baldock also was going down to win the pen before Silva made the slightest contact with him.

I don’t think that Newcastle’s goal should have been disallowed. If the ball hasn’t gone out completely, it is not a goal kick, and as much as it looked out, the curvature of the ball can make it be on. And I don’t think there was a foul on Gabriel. I think the ref and the var got it right this time.

I didn’t see the wolves decision so can’t comment on that.

5 hours ago, RMH said:

I don’t think that Newcastle’s goal should have been disallowed. If the ball hasn’t gone out completely, it is not a goal kick, and as much as it looked out, the curvature of the ball can make it be on. And I don’t think there was a foul on Gabriel. I think the ref and the var got it right this time.

I didn’t see the wolves decision so can’t comment on that.

 

7 hours ago, dkw said:

There was no way of telling if it went out, so going with on field decision was correct.

No way on earth was that a foul on Gabriel, he threw himself at the ball. Funny how Arteta didn't mention that Havertz should have been sent of, twice.

The wolves one though was a disgrace, never a penalty, the Sheffield players did t even try and claim it, just got up and played on, no one on that stadium thought it was a penalty other than the ref and VAR, farcical. 

Fair enough lads, I just see the two hands in the back of Gabriel as he is about to attempt to clear the ball and think it is a foul. 

Will be interesting to see what Mr. So sorry Webb has to say on it.

8 hours ago, timetowaste said:

It probably sounds harsh but I genuinely can't see a case for any football fan enjoying VAR in its current form and the whole "it's the people using it that are the problem, not the technology" doesn't hold water either because VAR takes away the ability to celebrate a goal properly. Changes to the game should be made to make it more enjoyable to the fan and I guarantee most fans will say it's made it worse. Until they have the ability to make every decision instant it has no business being in football.

Before VAR TV pundits used to drive me mad when they used to stop the video to pointout  where refs and linesmen had missed things without acknowledging that they have to make decisions on the spot without the luxury of various camera angles etc.

The latest nonsense about refs not having " played the game" makes me laugh when I listen to the sh*t those ex players come out with every week

2 hours ago, axman2526 said:

 

Fair enough lads, I just see the two hands in the back of Gabriel as he is about to attempt to clear the ball and think it is a foul. 

Will be interesting to see what Mr. So sorry Webb has to say on it.

All of us are bound to say that there was nothing wrong with the goal.

I don't think ANY  of us would agree it was a goal if it was against us though !

11 minutes ago, The Rising Sun said:

All of us are bound to say that there was nothing wrong with the goal.

I don't think ANY  of us would agree it was a goal if it was against us though !

Indeed. That is the platform I am coming from. Imaging it is against Chelsea.

If it was then both the ball being out and especially that foul were wrong calls imo 

2 hours ago, axman2526 said:

 

Fair enough lads, I just see the two hands in the back of Gabriel as he is about to attempt to clear the ball and think it is a foul. 

Will be interesting to see what Mr. So sorry Webb has to say on it.

I see what you mean, but I don’t think there was enough force to call it a push, Gabriel was falling before there was any contact. For once, I think var made the correct call by allowing the ref’s call to stand.

Likely the wrong call for the goal, not sure if the video referees even looked at the ball crossing the by-line. The thing with goal checking is how far do you go back, I still recall we once denied a goal for fouling in the midfield 20-30 seconds before the goal. The push on the back was not the real issue, ball has already gone past the defender and it was more of a body collision, hands are usually in front of the body. Of course nobody wanted to concede a goal like that, but couldn't have happened to a better manager than Arteta, who's been hitting out on referees on the smallest thing. Havertz was a red and that was a disgraceful call, Gusto got a red for a lot less.

58 minutes ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Likely the wrong call for the goal, not sure if the video referees even looked at the ball crossing the by-line. The thing with goal checking is how far do you go back, I still recall we once denied a goal for fouling in the midfield 20-30 seconds before the goal. The push on the back was not the real issue, ball has already gone past the defender and it was more of a body collision, hands are usually in front of the body. Of course nobody wanted to concede a goal like that, but couldn't have happened to a better manager than Arteta, who's been hitting out on referees on the smallest thing. Havertz was a red and that was a disgraceful call, Gusto got a red for a lot less.

Indeed. Had that been a goal line call I believe Hawkeye would have shown conclusively the ball was just over.

But yes it is great fun it happened to Arteta and Arsenal, especially with their whiny statement coming out after.

On 05/11/2023 at 13:49, axman2526 said:

Not sure if there were other calls in other games but, as much as I enjoyed what resulted from the ref errors, I got why Arteta and O'Neil were so upset.

Looks to me like the ball went out, and certainly Joelinton found Gabriel.

Baldock also was going down to win the pen before Silva made the slightest contact with him.

Are you arse fans? 

yeah was 50/50 on the goal . but the reaction of a club statement is unprecedented and now puts immense pressure on the next ref. If FA had any balls they would ban the coach for a match atleast.. heck Havertz got away with it too - they wont talk about it.. Arsenal are crybabies and then some.. 

I always say the technology is as good as the information it gets. One if the first things I learnt in technology is GIGO(Garbage In Garbage Out).

VAR is a great addition to the game when operated by, and this is very IMPORTANT competent officials.