39 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

I hate VAR. 

But managers only complain about it after it affects them, it just comes across as sour grapes. Arteta said "mistakes happen" after the Liverpool Tottenham game, now he's ranting and raving about it because his team was on the receiving end of a controversial goal (which I believe was the correct decision anyway). 

I hope they take it out but it would be better if all managers banded together as a petition to get rid of it rather than just complaining about it after a bad game. 

I find it laughable that managers and players complain about refs after spending 90 minutes trying to con them as much as possible, pressure them unnecessarily. All while the ref makes less mistakes in general than all the players and managers do.

On 06/11/2023 at 16:37, Richard P said:

People have said soft, but two hands pushed into someone’s back is always a foul all over the pitch so I can see frustration from that. 
The issue with VAR is it assumes the ref saw the incident so won’t change it as a howler, but they could of sent him to the screen to check.

 

On 08/11/2023 at 12:22, dkw said:

I find it laughable that managers and players complain about refs after spending 90 minutes trying to con them as much as possible, pressure them unnecessarily. All while the ref makes less mistakes in general than all the players and managers do.

I've always said that the officials are the only ones who go onto the pitch without the intention to cheat , feign contact, and con at every opportunity. 

Yeah, they f**k up sometimes , so do players and managers , it's all part of football 

Screw Arteta and Arsenal, just trying blatantly trying to gain an advantage.  If that goal was choked off for the so called push in the back, it would be a pretty soft call too, and Eddie Howe has every reason to call out VAR too. Same goes to Ten Hag, didn't complain when his team scored an obvious offside goal in the derby last year, but called referee embarrassing for correctly awarding a red for a stamp. I'd like to see an honest manager calling out VAR when decision goes his way🤫 We all know what's coming this weekend, Anthony Taylor and VAR will likely to write the headline for the game, and let's see how Poch and Pep react

2 hours ago, The Rising Sun said:

I've always said that the officials are the only ones who go onto the pitch without the intention to cheat , feign contact, and con at every opportunity. 

Yeah, they f**k up sometimes , so do players and managers , it's all part of football 

Maybe so, in the case of refs going to a Bournemouth v Crystal Palace, but not so when Taylor and the VAR go to a Chelsea v Liverpool/Utd/Spurs….

21 minutes ago, RMH said:

Maybe so, in the case of refs going to a Bournemouth v Crystal Palace, but not so when Taylor and the VAR go to a Chelsea v Liverpool/Utd/Spurs….

Yes, I think 99% referees going to games without being biased, then there are obvious examples of Taylor,  Chris Foy etc  who just going to Chelsea game with a complete different mindset. It's one thing being human errors or even incompetent, but others took it to a different level for being hateful for one team

8 hours ago, dkw said:

 

So do they get demoted for making errors with the 2 none red cards or a top game for getting the goal call "right"?

1 hour ago, RMH said:

Maybe so, in the case of refs going to a Bournemouth v Crystal Palace, but not so when Taylor and the VAR go to a Chelsea v Liverpool/Utd/Spurs….

Liverpool and Utd both think Taylor is biased against them .

Arsenal think refs and VAR are biased against them.

And teams like Bournemouth etc think VAR and refs favour the " big teams "

You've only got to watch any club's fan TV site to know that everything is against their particular club.

8 hours ago, The Rising Sun said:

Liverpool and Utd both think Taylor is biased against them .

Arsenal think refs and VAR are biased against them.

And teams like Bournemouth etc think VAR and refs favour the " big teams "

You've only got to watch any club's fan TV site to know that everything is against their particular club.

They can think whatever they want but they are the media darlings. In our case, it's not a matter of us thinking refs have a bias against Chelsea, it's two refs openly saying they have deliberately taken biased choices against Chelsea (and in the case of Clattenburg that could have led to considerable injuries to our players). So let me disagree there with you. It's not referees making a human error, in our case it's referees being truly biased and openly saying it to the media.

5 hours ago, RMH said:

They can think whatever they want but they are the media darlings. In our case, it's not a matter of us thinking refs have a bias against Chelsea, it's two refs openly saying they have deliberately taken biased choices against Chelsea (and in the case of Clattenburg that could have led to considerable injuries to our players). So let me disagree there with you. It's not referees making a human error, in our case it's referees being truly biased and openly saying it to the media.

Three. 

Øvrebø.  

7 hours ago, RMH said:

They can think whatever they want but they are the media darlings. In our case, it's not a matter of us thinking refs have a bias against Chelsea, it's two refs openly saying they have deliberately taken biased choices against Chelsea (and in the case of Clattenburg that could have led to considerable injuries to our players). So let me disagree there with you. It's not referees making a human error, in our case it's referees being truly biased and openly saying it to the media.

 

7 hours ago, RMH said:

They can think whatever they want but they are the media darlings. In our case, it's not a matter of us thinking refs have a bias against Chelsea, it's two refs openly saying they have deliberately taken biased choices against Chelsea (and in the case of Clattenburg that could have led to considerable injuries to our players). So let me disagree there with you. It's not referees making a human error, in our case it's referees being truly biased and openly saying it to the media.

I've posted before about those 2 corrupt decisions. No excuse whatsoever. . The media darlings had an outrageous offside decision at Spurs this season.

Wolves have suffered terribly, I can think of others, but you know what I mean

When these refs retire and have a book to write we'll find out some more truths  and corruption no doubt 

 

On 09/11/2023 at 20:50, icecoolguy22 said:

Screw Arteta and Arsenal, just trying blatantly trying to gain an advantage.  If that goal was choked off for the so called push in the back, it would be a pretty soft call too, and Eddie Howe has every reason to call out VAR too. Same goes to Ten Hag, didn't complain when his team scored an obvious offside goal in the derby last year, but called referee embarrassing for correctly awarding a red for a stamp. I'd like to see an honest manager calling out VAR when decision goes his way🤫 We all know what's coming this weekend, Anthony Taylor and VAR will likely to write the headline for the game, and let's see how Poch and Pep react

People were praising Postecoglou for his comments after our game, but I thought it was more of the same. He was basically saying that refs on the pitch should have the say and not somebody looking at monitors miles away from the pitch. But he's only saying that because those decisions went against his team. Without VAR, Sterling's goal stands, Tottenham get the offside call for Caicedo and Romero gets away with his dangerous tackle on Enzo. Without those VAR decisions, Tottenham still have 11 men and are winning the game 1-0.

I'm not going to take any manager seriously until they start calling out the decisions that go their way too. Every time they get a decision in their favour, they make all of the excuses for the refs, but when it's against them, they are calling it a disgrace and in the case of Arsenal and Liverpool, put out statements demanding change. 

VAR was implemented because we don't want to see alexis handball goal vs chelsea in fa cup final ever again.

It was not implemented to decide whether a simple hand to the back is enough to chalk a goal off. 

One of the reasons I decided to give up my season ticket was VAR. The delays that are inevitable to enable reviews of say goals or the awarding of penalties suck the elation you used to get when the ball hit the back of the opponent’s net. There’s always a worry that someone stuck in a darkened room will say no goal, no penalty or that rage when a penalty is awarded later on 

A significant number of managers , players , pundits and yes supporters all advocated its introduction so many using the examples of tennis of cricket and yes even rugby as proof positive as to why it would be so good for football. So many were caught out by thinking that VAR would mean decisions would  reflect their view whereas the laws have always made clear that a significant number of infringements or otherwise were “ in the opinion of the referee” 

Goal line technology is instant but the problem with football is that there are so many moving parts for the officials to factor into their thought process 

In tennis it’s basically a question did the ball bounce wide of a line.

In cricket no offside to consider no fouls no flyinging elbows.

In rugby there are far more natural breaks but things like offside , awarding of penalties rarely get looked at from 10 camera angles and in slo mo

So for me there really isn’t any sport that has off field officials trying to watch what’s going on at the same time and at the pace football  is now played. Add to that the likes of tennis and cricket are effectively played on smaller areas meaning it’s far easier to see if a ball is actually in or out 

Add to all that most of the infringements in football are subjective.

For instance was a player in a offside position but not active ? Was the handball deliberate? In the sports I mention just how many subjective calls are made ? Even when say in cricket when they are trying to establish if a catch has carried or the fingers are underneath the replays sometimes aren’t conclusive but none of the pundits try to put their differing perspective on matters they just get on with it and that to be fair is much the same attitude of rugby players. 
 

I have to be fair to Oliver and his team on Monday not one of their calls could I really say was wrong . I would have be happier if the two players who were sent off had walked earlier but that’s through my blue coloured lenses. Seek reassurance that just about every call made in that game on field was supported by VAR the only dissenting one was the penalty and that I would suspect was missed by just about every one watching live be it at the ground or on TV

Of course mistakes happen but those that are advocating  more technology be careful what you wish for. I personally would stick with goal line technology and abandon everything else but alas that ship has sailed FIFA won’t allow it but the only think that re assures me is that VAR is as bad everywhere as evidenced by some strange calls in the Utd and Liverpool games but those calls were subjective so we are back to why footballs version of VAR is so prone to be ate

 

1 hour ago, Bob stark said:

VAR was implemented because we don't want to see alexis handball goal vs chelsea in fa cup final ever again.

It was not implemented to decide whether a simple hand to the back is enough to chalk a goal off. 

With VAR as it ( if missed on field which it was ) would be allowed.

I don't care about what arse fans say. If you ask city fans they think Borja penalty wasn't a penalty. 

But there is even Chelsea fans who is not happy with this decision. This is a very good use of VAR. 

Edited November 15, 20232 yr by Bob stark

Full audio of the Caicedo offside goal and penalty/ red card incident at Spuds last Monday.

Ultimately they made the correct call with the penalty and red card, but the line-drawing to 'prove' Jackson was offside has to be seen to be believed. Note also that the freeze-frame is done a frame too late as the ball has clearly left Caicedo's foot, but the VAR officials don't appear to notice. (Not really a shock since a few minutes earlier they didn't ask Oliver to review the two-footed studs-up tackle from behind on Sterling). Their first go at drawing lines shows Jackson to be level with the last defender, so they have another go and move the line a few inches behind Jackson's back. They then disallow the goal.

 

 

Edited November 15, 20232 yr by Backbiter

It's basic confirmation bias. If you design a process so that people go looking for errors they will inevitably be biased towards finding them in ambiguous situations.

Seeing them moving the line to make sure they get the right decision is farcical.

1 hour ago, dkw said:

Seeing them moving the line to make sure they get the right decision is farcical.

No, that's no good, he's onside there. Let's draw a different line..."“Bit to the right mate..."

That's better. It's way behind Jackson, but anyway, let's look at something else...

12 hours ago, dkw said:

Seeing them moving the line to make sure they get the right decision is farcical.

 Yes, it's nuts, it felt like they already made up their mind, just play the line to make it real for the rest of us. If only they moved the line properly, we'd have a couple of more domestic trophies under Tuchel, and half a dozen more goals for Werner

Apologies, I am posting this here rather than the women's section intentionally, in case anybody didn't see the game last night or subsequent comments.

If anyone is in any doubt that the introduction of VAR could do some good, and what it was originally intended for watch the crminally inept level of officiating here that robbed Niamh Charles of the crowning of an excellent performance last night.

Enjoy Niamh's performance all the way through but from 2.05 onwards beggars belief.

 

Unfortunately our ladies are far too level headed. This needed a Didier level of response. Shocking imo

Edited November 16, 20232 yr by WhiteWall

52 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Apologies, I am posting this here rather than the women's section intentionally, in case anybody didn't see the game last night or subsequent comments.

If anyone is in any doubt that the introduction of VAR could do some good, and what it was originally intended for watch the crminally inept level of officiating here that robbed Niamh Charles of the crowning of an excellent performance last night.

Enjoy Niamh's performance all the way through but from 2.05 onwards beggars belief.

 

Unfortunately our ladies are far too level headed. This needed a Didier level of response. Shocking imo

They got done on a penalty given for a foul outside the box as well.

Both as obvious as you'll ever see ... beggars belief that the referee AND the lino could both get it so wrong ... 

 

So yes, you are absolutely right that the game needs video replays. We just need competent people actually looking at them :-) 

Refs have made a fortune from Gambling companies for so long and VAR threatens their ability to do that. That’s why they actively are making a farce of it. Make VAR independent and mic up both sides and watch how the ‘mistakes’ start to disappear.

7 hours ago, Frawdulant said:

Refs have made a fortune from Gambling companies for so long and VAR threatens their ability to do that. That’s why they actively are making a farce of it. Make VAR independent and mic up both sides and watch how the ‘mistakes’ start to disappear.

Refs and gambling companies ?