3 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

Since when is asking Potter to get us performing better than a team sitting 15th or lower an extremely high level?

If you’re going to reference it like that, the 15th best team in the country is high level out of the 1000s there are in the UK.

To how it’s being discussed. The expectation that Potter should have a completely new team winning matches easily, straight away is completely unrealistic. People are genuinely angry we didn’t easily beat Liverpool and dortmund away. Those are hard games for any team. 

The team (the one with the new players and better players back from injury) is 4 games in - which is nothing. 

Let’s actually give the thing some time to work 

 

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

That's insane...

Well, if we take out the 4th,3th and 2nd leagues from Sweden, where Potter was absolutely a rockstar, and calculate the stats in the English leagues, Sean Dyche is actually a bit better.

18 hours ago, axman2526 said:

You know a lot on here seem to either use TT and what he achieved with us as a stick to beat Potter with, or look to dimish what he achieved to make our position seem better than it is. Why do you who do need to do that?

For those looking to take away what TT achieved, come on. He came in when we were struggling, he made Rudiger reach his full potential as a player and leader, and pulled this disorganized group together in to an amazing functional side that won us our second Champions League. He did an incredible job in a short space of time and we should remember and respect that.

For those using TT saying "oh Potter should be doing this" Potter has not come in to anything like TT did. TT came in with the trusted hand of Roman on the wheel,  no new January signings, a Dave that still had legs and a fairly healthy squad. 

Potter came in to a cluster of a transfer window, a side that lost a key leader in Rudiger, a new ownership who had nobody at boardroom level but themselves to help out while looking to establish themselves as the new large and in charges and then a January where he has had to get many more new players to try and fit in to the club ethos, which is still changing, while dealing with this massive change at all levels in the men's side.

Am not saying Potter is a sure thing, but comparing what he has been asked to do to what TT was asked to do in 2021 is two very different tasks. 

Why dont we compare Potter with ETH rather than TT. Both new managers to struggling Top 4 teams

21 minutes ago, Blueboys said:

If you’re going to reference it like that, the 15th best team in the country is high level out of the 1000s there are in the UK.

To how it’s being discussed. The expectation that Potter should have a completely new team winning matches easily, straight away is completely unrealistic. People are genuinely angry we didn’t easily beat Liverpool and dortmund away. Those are hard games for any team. 

The team (the one with the new players and better players back from injury) is 4 games in - which is nothing. 

Let’s actually give the thing some time to work 

 

"Completely new team" has in reality been 3 or 4 faces in most games Potter has managed to date. Kepa, James, Azpi, Silva, Chalobah, Chilwell, RLC, (Jorginho), Kovacic, Mount, Ziyech, Pulisic, Havertz are all "continuity" from last season, to which we added two PL loan performers (Gallagher and Broja), and a sh*t ton of expensive signings across two windows. 

I get your point, but surely he's got be doing better than dropping 7 points out of 9 against the promoted sides, Fulham and Nottingham Forest, for example  ?

How low should the bar be set ?

Potter is very fortunate he has such an understanding boss. He had zero pressure (publicly anyway) to win anything, or achieve a minimum league position, though that might be a big part of the problem to be honest ... having a target of "player improvement" is all pretty subjective without any focus on tangible team results.

Still, I guess we can all clap loudly that Potter is doing better than 1000s of teams in the UK, Portsmouth Under-8s etc etc 

Edited February 17, 20233 yr by Sexyfootball

4 hours ago, Argo said:

Within four games of his return here Jose was raving about our performance in a defeat at Goodison Park.

He was also constantly talking up draws in his first season at United because they "dominated".

He made those quotes to have a dig at Lampard, there's not a manager in world football who doesn't analyse games below the top line to take both positives and negatives out of games regardless of result.

Yet Jose has won 26 trophies, a born winner and despite all his faults knows what he is talking about! Its sad to see Chelsea fans now accepting mediocracy and yes we played well despite losing, a bit like Spurs who have never won any major trophies.

2 hours ago, JM7 said:

I really hope that at the time when the club realise they need to sack Potter - when that is - that they have the courage to do it. At the minute, they are talking years with potter and it worries me that they will dig their heels in and persist with him. 

Until we are in the relegation zone! and this could happen this season. with 2 wins in 13 games.

 

Zidane hinting that he may be back on the touchline soon. Sadly I don't think (imo) he's interested in any jobs aside from France and Madrid.

He'd been rumoured a month or so ago to be interested in a third stint. I hope he doesn't go back to Madrid, for me it's uninspiring. He's already left his mark there, surely you go for a fresh challenge. Perhaps to face the best coaches in the league domestically at least twice a season.

If he truly fancies himself a top coach I think he has to try in another top 5 league even if not the Prem then surely Serie A.

Bringing it back to Potter, I think the most upsetting aspect of this whole situation is of all the coaches who have been sacked and deserved more time he's the one who is getting the backing. Not Ancelotti not Mourinho, not Tuchel and not Conte to name a handful. 

The more time passes by the more I regret not feeling too fussed that we chose GP over Poch. At the time I was a little bit surprised by the appointment, but could see the owners were trying something new. Sometimes where football is concerned it's better to stick to the tried and trusted of appointing elite management.

1 minute ago, Edjmendy said:

Yet Jose has won 26 trophies, a born winner and despite all his faults knows what he is talking about! Its sad to see Chelsea fans now accepting mediocracy and yes we played well despite losing, a bit like Spurs who have never won any major trophies.

Yes and he still praises good performances when his team draw and lose, which according to many people here is unacceptable and something the top managers would never do.

22 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

But improvement doesn't necessarily mean much when you've set the bar at 5 cm to begin with. Its like patting yourself on the back because you raise it by 5 inches each time and go over it for a while. We don't need improvement right now, we need a complete revolution in both results and the way we play over time.

I admit we looked better against Dortmund than we have a lot of times recently. But it was still a pretty even game, at least until Dortmund scored and they decided to sit back and soak up pressure in the hope of preserving their lead. So yes, it was improvement relative to the extremely low bar that's been set.

But was it improvement compared to our last high-stakes CL knockout tie? Against a much, much better side that eventually became European Champions again. And with Alonso and RLC at wingback and the likes of Havertz, Werner and Mount up front?

I know what I think.

 

I'm glad you brought that tie up actually because it's another good case study in the context of what I'm saying, we were all delighted with the performance despite not winning something that we were apparently never doing before Potter supposedly came in and brainwashed us all.

And I bet if we go out in a similar way vs BVB and Potter says something like this he'd get crucified.

"These are the kind of defeats we can digest and swallow as we left nothing to regret out there," said Tuchel.

"It was not meant to be. We were simply unlucky."

"We showed the quality and character this team has and deserved to go through. There is nothing to regret."

Just to clarify I'm not atall saying Potter is anywhere near Tuchel in terms of impact for us or that I am majorly happy with him but as I said this narrative that we only started searching for positives in defeat since he's arrived is beyond boring and utterly false.

5 minutes ago, Argo said:

Yes and he still praises good performances when his team draw and lose, which according to many people here is unacceptable and something the top managers would never do.

I'm glad you brought that tie up actually because it's another good case study in the context of what I'm saying, we were all delighted with the performance despite not winning something that we were apparently never doing before Potter supposedly came in and brainwashed us all.

And I bet if we go out in a similar way vs BVB and Potter says something like this he'd get crucified.

"These are the kind of defeats we can digest and swallow as we left nothing to regret out there," said Tuchel.

"It was not meant to be. We were simply unlucky."

"We showed the quality and character this team has and deserved to go through. There is nothing to regret."

Just to clarify I'm not atall saying Potter is anywhere near Tuchel in terms of impact for us or that I am majorly happy with him but as I said this narrative that we only started searching for positives in defeat since he's arrived is beyond boring and utterly false.

I've seen people on here slam Tuchel for those Real Madrid games. Often the same people who now defends Potter with "performances" who's not remotely near those against Madrid last year. Real Madrid we actually battered but were done by individual mistakes from Mendy and Kante over the two legs.

Dortmund wasn't anywhere near as good against a much, much worse side.

Edited February 17, 20233 yr by OriginalS

12 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

 

Zidane hinting that he may be back on the touchline soon. Sadly I don't think (imo) he's interested in any jobs aside from France and Madrid.

He'd been rumoured a month or so ago to be interested in a third stint. I hope he doesn't go back to Madrid, for me it's uninspiring. He's already left his mark there, surely you go for a fresh challenge. Perhaps to face the best coaches in the league domestically at least twice a season.

If he truly fancies himself a top coach I think he has to try in another top 5 league even if not the Prem then surely Serie A.

Bringing it back to Potter, I think the most upsetting aspect of this whole situation is of all the coaches who have been sacked and deserved more time he's the one who is getting the backing. Not Ancelotti not Mourinho, not Tuchel and not Conte to name a handful. 

The more time passes by the more I regret not feeling too fussed that we chose GP over Poch. At the time I was a little bit surprised by the appointment, but could see the owners were trying something new. Sometimes where football is concerned it's better to stick to the tried and trusted of appointing elite management.

If Zidane wants to go back to Madrid, I'd take Carlo back in a heart beat !

The legend John Obi Mikel quoted recently as saying Ancelotti was the best manager he played under here 🙂 

7 minutes ago, Argo said:

Yes and he still praises good performances when his team draw and lose, which according to many people here is unacceptable and something the top managers would never do.

I'm glad you brought that tie up actually because it's another good case study in the context of what I'm saying, we were all delighted with the performance despite not winning something that we were apparently never doing before Potter supposedly came in and brainwashed us all.

And I bet if we go out in a similar way vs BVB and Potter says something like this he'd get crucified.

"These are the kind of defeats we can digest and swallow as we left nothing to regret out there," said Tuchel.

"It was not meant to be. We were simply unlucky."

"We showed the quality and character this team has and deserved to go through. There is nothing to regret."

Just to clarify I'm not atall saying Potter is anywhere near Tuchel in terms of impact for us or that I am majorly happy with him but as I said this narrative that we only started searching for positives in defeat since he's arrived is beyond boring and utterly false.

I don't think you can compare that to Potter, Jose will defend his team when necessary, and he'll celebrate a draw when he played for that draw. 

Potter would still be smiling after a 5-0 loss. And quite honestly, I don't particularly care about that as much as the other people who want him out do, however, I definitely don't appreciate him not pointing out obvious referee faults. 

25 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

I've seen people on here slam Tuchel for those Real Madrid games. Often the same people who now defends Potter with "performances" who's not remotely near those against Madrid last year. Real Madrid we actually battered but were done by individual mistakes from Mendy and Kante over the two legs.

Dortmund wasn't anywhere near as good against a much, much worse side.

Because Tuchel came after Lampard(which is a no-no), and Potter after Tuchel.

41 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

"Completely new team" has in reality been 3 or 4 faces in most games Potter has managed to date. Kepa, James, Azpi, Silva, Chalobah, Chilwell, RLC, (Jorginho), Kovacic, Mount, Ziyech, Pulisic, Havertz are all "continuity" from last season, to which we added two PL loan performers (Gallagher and Broja), and a sh*t ton of expensive signings across two windows. 

I get your point, but surely he's got be doing better than dropping 7 points out of 9 against the promoted sides, Fulham and Nottingham Forest, for example  ?

How low should the bar be set ?

Potter is very fortunate he has such an understanding boss. He had zero pressure (publicly anyway) to win anything, or achieve a minimum league position, though that might be a big part of the problem to be honest ... having a target of "player improvement" is all pretty subjective without any focus on tangible team results.

Still, I guess we can all clap loudly that Potter is doing better than 1000s of teams in the UK, Portsmouth Under-8s etc etc 

Well Enzo, Mudryk, Badiashile, Madueke & Felix are the new faces, so 5. 

James and Chilwell are returning from injury and haven’t really featured under potter before, there’s 7 out of the 11 straight away.

You can play the X points from these games all day. Arsenal have 1 in 9 from Everton city and Brentford. City have 1 point from 9 v Everton, spurs and Brentford.  I could continue. 

 

Just my opinion, but this topic has become very stale, way to many stats and comparisons, too many people who seem to have a self given right that we must be the best straight away. Give the bloke a f**king chance as well as the new owners. 

Awaiting the obligatory responce.

A football club is an evolving thing, the only constant is the fans of that club and in recent years our 'fans' in my opinion seem too entitled.

Just my opinion.

1 hour ago, LongtimerLurker said:

 

Zidane hinting that he may be back on the touchline soon. Sadly I don't think (imo) he's interested in any jobs aside from France and Madrid.

He'd been rumoured a month or so ago to be interested in a third stint. I hope he doesn't go back to Madrid, for me it's uninspiring. He's already left his mark there, surely you go for a fresh challenge. Perhaps to face the best coaches in the league domestically at least twice a season.

If he truly fancies himself a top coach I think he has to try in another top 5 league even if not the Prem then surely Serie A.

Bringing it back to Potter, I think the most upsetting aspect of this whole situation is of all the coaches who have been sacked and deserved more time he's the one who is getting the backing. Not Ancelotti not Mourinho, not Tuchel and not Conte to name a handful. 

The more time passes by the more I regret not feeling too fussed that we chose GP over Poch. At the time I was a little bit surprised by the appointment, but could see the owners were trying something new. Sometimes where football is concerned it's better to stick to the tried and trusted of appointing elite management.

The biggest thing is that Zidane is actually trying to speak English more there while he's involved with that racing team. He would be my number 1 pick after such a big investment and more to follow in the summer.

 what jumps out at me from this stuff is that the stats history particularly points per game didn’t justify his appointment. Yet also he never gets sacked and keeps moving to bigger teams. Weird isn’t it? 
there’s an article on ESPN that shows ManU have the points they have because this season they have won so many games 1.0. I wish. 
 

the stat I will be watching is our net xG.  I want it to be over 2, as it was against Dortmund. You still have to convert the xG but it’s a fair indicator of performance. 

24 minutes ago, Kev56 said:

Just my opinion, but this topic has become very stale, way to many stats and comparisons, too many people who seem to have a self given right that we must be the best straight away. Give the bloke a f**king chance as well as the new owners. 

Awaiting the obligatory responce.

A football club is an evolving thing, the only constant is the fans of that club and in recent years our 'fans' in my opinion seem too entitled.

Just my opinion.

Before "giving the bloke a f**king chance" let me make another comparison.

When Sarri took over after Conte left, everyone knew that he will change the way the team plays radically and it was even reported that Roman always wanted us to be a more flashy team and not a "counter-attacking-parking-the-bus" team that has been one of the labels put upon us. Sarri even openly talked about how we're starting from the drawing board and how the team needs to learn some of the basics of a possession-based game, he even openly talked about how the gap between us and Man City is too big and that it will take time to diminish that gap.

Did the fans give him a chance? No. He was disliked. And yes even back then we were "rebuilding". Even back then we were buying "talent" and even back then we were trying to give some younger players a chance.

Not much different from today isn't it? Oh wait it is actually very much different since Sarri actually won us some silverware and finished top 3 and was still disliked regardless! And back then there were fans that also pointed out that Sarri actually didn't win any big title. Why would you say now that the fans are entitled suddenly and not back then?

Potter has his chance he won the lottery by getting this job, it's up to him to take it now, starting by winning some matches maybe, this is a result driven game after all.

Edited February 17, 20233 yr by Gol15

1 hour ago, OriginalS said:

I've seen people on here slam Tuchel for those Real Madrid games. Often the same people who now defends Potter with "performances" who's not remotely near those against Madrid last year. Real Madrid we actually battered but were done by individual mistakes from Mendy and Kante over the two legs.

Dortmund wasn't anywhere near as good against a much, much worse side.

Yup, crazy how much standards have dropped in just 5 months since Potter came in

13 minutes ago, ozboy said:

 what jumps out at me from this stuff is that the stats history particularly points per game didn’t justify his appointment. Yet also he never gets sacked and keeps moving to bigger teams. Weird isn’t it? 
there’s an article on ESPN that shows ManU have the points they have because this season they have won so many games 1.0. I wish. 
 

the stat I will be watching is our net xG.  I want it to be over 2, as it was against Dortmund. You still have to convert the xG but it’s a fair indicator of performance. 

He's a media favourite. Did a poor job with Swansea yet gets a Premier League job. Then has 2 mediocre and 1 good season with Brighton and gets the Chelsea job. Even if he gets sacked he'll probably end up at a top 10 team.

46 minutes ago, Blueboys said:

Well Enzo, Mudryk, Badiashile, Madueke & Felix are the new faces, so 5. 

James and Chilwell are returning from injury and haven’t really featured under potter before, there’s 7 out of the 11 straight away.

You can play the X points from these games all day. Arsenal have 1 in 9 from Everton city and Brentford. City have 1 point from 9 v Everton, spurs and Brentford.  I could continue. 

 

He's managed 24 games, starting back in September. Those 5 new faces you mention have only been here for 3 or 4 of them, since they were only signed in the January window !

25 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Before "giving the bloke a f**king chance" let me make another comparison.

When Sarri took over after Conte left, everyone knew that he will change the way the team plays radically and it was even reported that Roman always wanted us to be a more flashy team and not a "counter-attacking-parking-the-bus" team that has been one of the labels put upon us. Sarri even openly talked about how we're starting from the drawing board and how the team needs to learn some of the basics of a possession-based game, he even openly talked about how the gap between us and Man City is too big and that it will take time to diminish that gap.

Did the fans give him a chance? No. He was disliked. And yes even back then we were "rebuilding". Even back then we were buying "talent" and even back then we were trying to give some younger players a chance.

Not much different from today isn't it? Oh wait it is actually very much different since Sarri actually won us some silverware and finished top 3 and was still disliked regardless! And back then there were fans that also pointed out that Sarri actually didn't win any big title. Why would you say now that the fans are entitled suddenly and not back then?

Potter has his chance he won the lottery by getting this job, it's up to him to take it now, starting by winning some matches maybe, this is a result driven game after all.

Sarri chose to leave though. He wasn't fired. Yes he got a tough rap on here from many posters, but last time I checked none of the forum members make decisions for the club (probably a good thing for the most part ;)).

Regardless though it is pointless speculating about how Potter might get handled compared with these previous managers. They all reported to a totally different board and owner. Tuchel is the only other manager we have had under Clearlake, and supposedly he was not shown the door over the performance of the team. Rather it was related to a combination of disagreements with the board, and some unacceptable behavior off the field. Based on the summer transfer activity it looks like Clearlake fully intended to back Tuchel until the relationship went sour very quickly.

34 minutes ago, ozboy said:

 what jumps out at me from this stuff is that the stats history particularly points per game didn’t justify his appointment. Yet also he never gets sacked and keeps moving to bigger teams. Weird isn’t it? 
there’s an article on ESPN that shows ManU have the points they have because this season they have won so many games 1.0. I wish. 
 

the stat I will be watching is our net xG.  I want it to be over 2, as it was against Dortmund. You still have to convert the xG but it’s a fair indicator of performance. 

I doubt Roman would have appointed Potter as he would have gone for immediate results first. However the new owners clearly want to build something different and are apparently patient enough to accept less impressive results in the meantime.

I agree with you on the net xG. It was woeful for us a month or so ago, and has been much better the last few games. As long as that number continues to be on the right side of 2, I think the goals and the results will follow in time.

1 hour ago, OriginalS said:

I've seen people on here slam Tuchel for those Real Madrid games. Often the same people who now defends Potter with "performances" who's not remotely near those against Madrid last year. Real Madrid we actually battered but were done by individual mistakes from Mendy and Kante over the two legs.

Dortmund wasn't anywhere near as good against a much, much worse side.

The away match against Madrid was an excellent performance where we were unfortunate to fall just short against the eventual winners. However, I don't remember too many on here being impressed with our performance in the first leg.

1 hour ago, Drogba1 said:

He's a media favourite. Did a poor job with Swansea yet gets a Premier League job. Then has 2 mediocre and 1 good season with Brighton and gets the Chelsea job. Even if he gets sacked he'll probably end up at a top 10 team.

Can't blame the media for our club appointing him as manager and for us poaching Brighton's back room staff as well.

Anyway the media have been banging on about whether his job is safe and our inability to score goals , his team selection, his lack of anger was even raised on motd just last week.

If we f**k up Saturday, it wouldn't surprise me the way things are going 😁😁😁

3 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

"Completely new team" has in reality been 3 or 4 faces in most games Potter has managed to date. Kepa, James, Azpi, Silva, Chalobah, Chilwell, RLC, (Jorginho), Kovacic, Mount, Ziyech, Pulisic, Havertz are all "continuity" from last season, to which we added two PL loan performers (Gallagher and Broja), and a sh*t ton of expensive signings across two windows. 

I get your point, but surely he's got be doing better than dropping 7 points out of 9 against the promoted sides, Fulham and Nottingham Forest, for example  ?

How low should the bar be set ?

Potter is very fortunate he has such an understanding boss. He had zero pressure (publicly anyway) to win anything, or achieve a minimum league position, though that might be a big part of the problem to be honest ... having a target of "player improvement" is all pretty subjective without any focus on tangible team results.

Still, I guess we can all clap loudly that Potter is doing better than 1000s of teams in the UK, Portsmouth Under-8s etc etc 

This sh*te Saints team beat us  2-1 after being a goal behind when Tuchel was manager. 

At least we scored I suppose , something I would love to see us do again before the season end.

😆😆😆