I was thinking about the longevity of truly elite managers at a single club. Bar Fergie and Pep, I can’t think of many world class managers who stayed elite over a significant period of time at one club. 

Are we expecting too much from Potter?

4 minutes ago, JM7 said:

I was thinking about the longevity of truly elite managers at a single club. Bar Fergie and Pep, I can’t think of many world class managers who stayed elite over a significant period of time at one club. 

Are we expecting too much from Potter?

Carlo at Milan?

I may be wrong on this one but Sacchi at Juve?

Martin O'Neil at Celtic?

Also we may not like him but Wenger was an elite manager, just had a poor final few years.

1 minute ago, axman2526 said:

Carlo at Milan?

I may be wrong on this one but Sacchi at Juve?

Martin O'Neil at Celtic?

Also we may not like him but Wenger was an elite manager, just had a poor final few years.

Martin O' Neill an elite manager !!

1 minute ago, bluehaze said:

Martin O' Neill an elite manager !!

Well he did win a lot of trophies for them 🙂

5 hours ago, Kev56 said:

Just my opinion, but this topic has become very stale, way to many stats and comparisons, too many people who seem to have a self given right that we must be the best straight away. 

I think what is becoming more stale is people putting words in our mouths. Who is saying we expect the best straight away? I'm not asking for a title challenge, I'm not even asking for a top 4 finish, I think I wrote off that chance before Tuchel was sacked. All I am asking for is for Potter to stop having us look like the most boring team in the league and performing like a team fighting a relegation battle.

Maybe the stats are growing stale for some because they don't want to face facts. Like winning fewer games than the coach who was managing bottom of the table Southampton. Or maybe the stat that shows that without those early results under Tuchel, we would be fighting relegation. Maybe those bored of the stats just can't find any stat that show Potter in a positive light and want to bury their heads in the sand instead of facing the reality that up to this point, Potter has done a horrible job.

4 hours ago, forbzy said:

I doubt Roman would have appointed Potter as he would have gone for immediate results first. However the new owners clearly want to build something different and are apparently patient enough to accept less impressive results in the meantime.

I agree with you on the net xG. It was woeful for us a month or so ago, and has been much better the last few games. As long as that number continues to be on the right side of 2, I think the goals and the results will follow in time.

Roman was ruthless but he built a winning mentality for 20 years...failure was not an option...for anyone.   Clearlake and Boehly appears to have driven that winning mentality out of the main gates in a matter of months by appointing a mid-table manager, whose experience and stats just doesn't ooze anything but mediocrity. There is no pressure for him to deliver as long as he doesn't rock the boat and keep us out of the bottom three; that is alien to any of our fans over the last 20+ years  While it is likely that GP will remain for the rest of the season, it will be interesting to see what expectations will be laid at his door for next season, especially if Boehly spends another few hundred million in the summer. 

Boehly made it clear that this club is a commercial enterprise that has been under performing for many years and it is something that Clearlake intends to capitalize on by building a one of the best teams in world football.....guess what Todd you bought the best team in world football...we were World Club Champions.  The squad needed refreshing for sure....it didn't need blowing up and it certainly didn't need an inexperience manager like Mr Potter, when other more experienced managers were available after the decision was made to part company with TT.   I just wonder at what point Clearlake's investors say enough is enough, especially if it goes south tomorrow and looking at these stats.

 

 

Here's my two cents. Tuchel didn't want ronaldo or 443 so Todd hired Potter. When Todd says jump for 600m Potter says how high. He is a yes man who will do his best with what he is given. The problem is he has been given 600m and I'm afraid he won't get results. I'm even more afraid the board don't see this and keep him around. We will be languishing in midtable by Christmas if that is the case...

1 hour ago, Hashishi said:

Great chart. Can you show one. With just the one net xG as one line?The one you show  is very useful but I’d like the net one as well. And jus an observation that 7 games average smoothes it out but also has a lag of course. 
 

you can see the clear steep downtrend in xG at the end of tuchels reign that Potter was unable to change. XG against has shown no clear trend. We have only occasionally got to an xG of 2 a couple of times. We need a much better long term trend there. Really a great chart. 

Edited February 18, 20233 yr by ozboy

51 minutes ago, Hashishi said:

Here's my two cents. Tuchel didn't want ronaldo or 443 so Todd hired Potter. When Todd says jump for 600m Potter says how high. He is a yes man who will do his best with what he is given. The problem is he has been given 600m and I'm afraid he won't get results. I'm even more afraid the board don't see this and keep him around. We will be languishing in midtable by Christmas if that is the case...

I can't help but agree to a certain extent. Fact is I don't think anyone really thinks Enzo, Mudyrk, Felix, Badiashile, Nkunku etc, are Potter signings. They're all club signings from Boehly and his new infrastructure. 

My theory for a while now has been, while they publicly back him, deep down they know putting all their eggs in Potter's basket could see the club regress very quickly. By buying all these young talented players essentially Boehly ensures that we will always have an attractive squad for any coach in world football.

Add to the support Boehly and Co have been giving Potter while he's under pressure, most coaches would see that and expect they too would get time. Finally add in the spending and most coaches would expect to get a fair bit of pocket change to play with.

This is not to say they plan to sack him anytime soon, I just suspect in terms of squad building at least they know what they're doing. Managerial appointment wise they're sorely lacking, now the infrastructure is in place one of these highly sought after board members needs to stop being a yes man and call a spade a spade. Stand up to Boehly and tell him how it is, sure we can give Potter time. But, how can you tell me not one member of their board especially the real football minds aren't slightly worried.

Super club only in name now unfortunately, standards have fallen so far that even half the fan base have been brain washed in under 6 months to believe the buzzwords: long-term, project and time. Sure these are important aspects of any appointment. However, if you have made the absolutely wrong appointment in the first place, realistically no amount of time will bridge the gap in ability and quality.

Edited February 18, 20233 yr by LongtimerLurker

1 hour ago, ozboy said:

Great chart. Can you show one. With just the one net xG as one line?The one you show  is very useful but I’d like the net one as well. And jus an observation that 7 games average smoothes it out but also has a lag of course. 
 

you can see the clear steep downtrend in xG at the end of tuchels reign that Potter was unable to change. XG against has shown no clear trend. We have only occasionally got to an xG of 2 a couple of times. We need a much better long term trend there. Really a great chart. 

Agreed. Very interesting chart, and illustrates the decline that started towards the last part of last season. The 2 peaks for Tuchel occurred when he had at least 2 of the 3 of Kante/Chilwell/James fit. If there is any hope the last part of the chart suggests there has been an improvement in the last few weeks. Lets hope we continue on that uptrend in the weeks ahead.

I don't think a lot of people here realize it is not just us that need convincing, Potter also need to convince the player that his method works. 

 

Some people are a bit dramatic on here. Lets see how the next few games pan out and then decide slowly what should be best. Many just recently just came back from injury so i want to give Potter more time but maybe i am just "Brainswashed"...

7 minutes ago, Nevamind said:

Some people are a bit dramatic on here. Lets see how the next few games pan out and then decide slowly what should be best. Many just recently just came back from injury so i want to give Potter more time but maybe i am just "Brainswashed"...

No you're not brainwashed, just level headed. It's remarkable how many people are claiming a sh*t season is gonna see us regress as a club when not too long ago we finished 10th and won the league the next season. I've long given up trying to argue with these people, I don't know whether they're enjoying convincing themselves that we're in a real crisis or if they're just short sighted but it's all laughable.

10 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Carlo at Milan?

I may be wrong on this one but Sacchi at Juve?

Martin O'Neil at Celtic?

Also we may not like him but Wenger was an elite manager, just had a poor final few years.

Klopp + Simeone. If you want to go further back add shankley and busby. 

Long term doesn't mean 10+ it means 6 or 7+ to me. 

Most managers in history have a shelf life at the top of 10 years. Very very few last longer than that. 

I think it's pretty clear that Boehly and Co. want to replicate the LA Dodgers model where they hired Dave Roberts in 2016 and stuck with him until he won them the world series in 2020.

That being said, I have no idea if that's going to work here in football.

15 hours ago, JM7 said:

I was thinking about the longevity of truly elite managers at a single club. Bar Fergie and Pep, I can’t think of many world class managers who stayed elite over a significant period of time at one club. 

Are we expecting too much from Potter?

Klopp at Liverpool arguably (until this year), 90+ points 3 times which usually wins 3 titles, 3 Champions League finals winning one, when he goes I'm pretty sure Liverpool will go back to being a Europa League team.

Clueless.

Going through a process I can understand. But conceding half the pitch and majority possession to Southampton at home is criminal. 

This might be the game the fanbase completely give up...

Get him outta here... He's boring, no charisma, hasn't won anything of note and inspires no confidence in the fans or players.
 

Depressing watching us lose every f*cking week (assuming we will lose as we can't actually score). We're Chelsea, we have some great players, it shouldn't be like this.

Edited February 18, 20233 yr by AlwaysRight

20 hours ago, Kev56 said:

Just my opinion, but this topic has become very stale, way to many stats and comparisons, too many people who seem to have a self given right that we must be the best straight away. Give the bloke a f**king chance as well as the new owners. 

Awaiting the obligatory responce.

A football club is an evolving thing, the only constant is the fans of that club and in recent years our 'fans' in my opinion seem too entitled.

Just my opinion.

Come on. Defend this first half, I dare you.

Being outplayed by the absolute fecking bottom of the league at home and losing against a team that has no manager. 

"Give the bloke a chance"? For this? Feck off

I feel sorry for saying it because I think Graham is a really good guy but IMO he has to be sacked after this if we can't turn it around. We got bossed by f**king Southampton, bottom of the league.

If this fella was called Gavi Potterino instead of Graham Potter he would have about 2 fans around the world. 

People say foreign managers get more hype, the only reason this bloke has got hype he has is because he's English and that's it.