It's still too early for any judgement, be it pros or cons. 

He went for experience tonight and it backfired. 

 

17 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I think it's worse, because if we drop that low again, I don't think we have the players to recover. No once in a generation player like Hazard this time, no striker like Costa, no midfielder like Fabregas. There aren't any players in the squad that are anywhere near the level of those players.

Not to mention no Antonio Conte, who completely revived Juventus and Inter in similar situations

As someone who has followed GP in his career for six years now, this was some of the most dire stuff I've ever seen any of his teams play.
There is a sh*t ton to do before this team is going to look even decent. This is what it should look like:
 

While it is only normal that the tactical understanding isn't there for your players yet, I have to say I'm very surprised by the inadequete technique shown by some of the supposedly world class players, and even more surprised by the physical level: players took 2-3 minutes to recover from sprints before their next bout of applying pressure or making runs. Unacceptable - if you want to compete in the CL and PL, you can have no more than 90 seconds to recover and return to normal breath/pulse.

In case your triggerhappy American give it time, it will all turn very well for you in the end. But this is going to take a long, long time before you see the results and the football GP and these players can perform.

If we were expecting all we had to do was play a faster tempo and the problem would be solved, then were going to be upset when we realise it wasn't the simple answer after all. Neither was TT the whole problem.

It's the players, were now paying the price for our constant managerial changes, a gaggle of players, a lot of knee jerk signings, amalgamated into a big turd ! 

4 minutes ago, SwedishEntity said:

As someone who has followed GP in his career for six years now, this was some of the most dire stuff I've ever seen any of his teams play.
There is a sh*t ton to do before this team is going to look even decent. This is what it should look like:
 

While it is only normal that the tactical understanding isn't there for your players yet, I have to say I'm very surprised by the inadequete technique shown by some of the supposedly world class players, and even more surprised by the physical level: players took 2-3 minutes to recover from sprints before their next bout of applying pressure or making runs. Unacceptable - if you want to compete in the CL and PL, you can have no more than 90 seconds to recover and return to normal breath/pulse.

In case your triggerhappy American give it time, it will all turn very well for you in the end. But this is going to take a long, long time before you see the results and the football GP and these players can perform.

Have you seen much of how Graham Potter's teams would play against a low block? The only club where he might have had to deal with it is Swansea, since they had recently been relegated from the Prem playing in the Championship. How did his Swansea team set up?

29 minutes ago, big blue said:

I feel like as long as we continue to play a possession based game with this squad, we will continue to struggle. Not enough of the players in the squad are elite passers for their position, especially in the middle of the pitch. 

Kovacic, Kante, RLC, all ball carriers. 

Gallagher, Mount, both better at pressing and arriving into the box. 

Jorginho is a decent playmaker, but his range is poor.

None of them would get a look in at city or bayern.

Then you add Azpi who is at best safe, and tbh lately really poor in possession, plus attackers seem to struggle with the basics, and it's no wonder struggle. 

We desperately need a director of football, so we can actually have squad of players suited to the philosophy of football the club wants to play. 

I wish we would ditch this football altogether. We won the Europa League and Champions League, but that doesn't take away from the fact that this has been by far most boring football I have ever experienced as a Chelsea fan. It's just not exciting watching us pass the ball around aimlessly without any shots on goal. Rarely a long range shot, rarely any quick balls forward, rarely a counter attack, rarely a bit of skill that gets fans off their seats, this isn't why we watch football. It's risk free, pass responsibility onto the next player type of football and it's sh*t.

I thought Tuchel would have moved away from it eventually, because I don't remember either Dortmund or PSG playing like this, but I just don't know if he could do it with the players we accumulated. The transition started under Sarri and our football has been awful ever since. I hate watching us most weeks, the fans clearly do as well when you look at how silent the Bridge is these days, and now we have no chance of that changing under Potter seeing as his brand of football isn't really all that different.

Edited September 14, 20223 yr by Scott Harris

2 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I wish we would ditch this football altogether. We won the Europa League and Champions League, but that doesn't take away from the fact that this has been by far most boring football I have ever experienced as a Chelsea fan. It's just not exciting watching us pass the ball around aimlessly without any shots on goal. Rarely a long range shot, rarely any quick balls forward, rarely a counter attack, rarely a bit of skill that gets fans off their seats, this isn't why we watch football. It's risk free, pass responsibility onto the next player type of football and it's sh*t.

I thought Tuchel would have moved away from it eventually, because I don't remember either Dortmund or PSG playing like this, but I just don't know if he could do it with the players we accumulated. The transition started under Sarri and our football has been awful ever since. I hate watching us most weeks, the fans clearly do as well when you look at how silent the Bridge is these days, and now we have no chance of that changing under Potter seeing as his brand of football isn't really all that different.

What kind of football would you prefer? Most of the worlds top managers play a heavily possession orientated style these days, difference is teams like Man City actually have the players to execute it. In Guardiola's first season there when they didn't have the players they looked terrible

Just now, Scott Harris said:

I wish we would ditch this football altogether. We won the Europa League and Champions League, but that doesn't take away from the fact that this has been by far most boring football I have ever experienced as a Chelsea fan. It's just not exciting watching us pass the ball around aimlessly without any shots on goal. Rarely a long range shot, rarely any quick balls forward, rarely a counter attack, rarely a bit of skill that gets fans off their seats, this isn't why we watch football. It's risk free, pass responsibility onto the next player type of football and it's sh*t.

I thought Tuchel would have moved away from it eventually, because I don't remember either Dortmund or PSG playing like this, but I just don't know if we can with the players we accumulated. The transition started under Sarri and our football has been awful ever since. I hate watching us most weeks, the fans clearly do as well when you look at how silent the Bridge is these days, and now we have no chance of that changing under Potter seeing as his brand of football isn't really all that different.

I dont mind possession based football, when it's done well with technically gifted players. You have to commit fully to it though, from the keeper through the whole side, the 1st question needs to be how good is the player on the ball. 

We half heartedly tried to change with Sarri, then Lampard came, and we bought a real mish mash of players, but most of them suited counter attack. 

Now this summer we have spent loads of money again, but we havent got an 11 that can play that way, let alone a squad over the course of a season.

Our best results and performances under Tuchel came in games where we could counter, or when we could press high and create from quick turn overs, there hasn't been any sort of sustained success with us having 70% possession. 

I agree that with Potter we wont be changing anytime soon, so we need to make some harsh decisions on alot of players, it needs to be cut throat like it was with pep moving on title winners in Hart, Zabaleta, Toure, etc, and we desperately need someone able to identify the right players for decent prices so we dont keep spending massive amounts on every transfer. 

Anything less than 100% commitment to change will not be enough to change or create a philosophy.

Just now, Drogba1 said:

Have you seen much of how Graham Potter's teams would play against a low block? The only club where he might have had to deal with it is Swansea, since they had recently been relegated from the Prem playing in the Championship. How did his Swansea team set up?

Brighton hade the 4th most possession of any team in the PL last season. 53% at Stamford Bridge to give one example. So yes, there's been plenty of low block defending teams - and in Brighton he has struggled with it. Chances have been created, lots and lots, I suggest you watch this from the 2020/21 season:

In Swansea and Östersund, this was not a problem. In both of those clubs he had access to a strong player up front that would create spaces for midfielders and inside cutting wingers, often through moving towards the wings to pull out defenses and get into easy aerial battles with short full backs. Other than that, his teams create chances through superior movement and bravery. Patient play until there is a trigger - an opponent going into press or a combination of movement within his own team - and then try to make quick, slick combinations into chance creation.

It will come for you eventually, but it will take time, that much is clear from today and your starting lineup will look very different in a month or two - it is clear that some of your older players doesn't have the required physical capacity to play the way GP wants football to be played.

None of us agreed with Dave starting, many were not happy about Havertz starting. 

Truth is we spent over 250mill and, aside from Sterling, our attacking options are absolutely dreadful. 

Broja may or may not be good for us, time will tell. The rest are hopeless.

31 minutes ago, coco said:

If we were expecting all we had to do was play a faster tempo and the problem would be solved, then were going to be upset when we realise it wasn't the simple answer after all. Neither was TT the whole problem.

It's the players, were now paying the price for our constant managerial changes, a gaggle of players, a lot of knee jerk signings, amalgamated into a big turd ! 

This is what crossed my mind watching the game we are paying the price of constant managerial changes and lack of DoF with these players. 
I got so frustrated with players losing the ball and can’t make simple two yard passes I can’t be the only one who say simple missed passes.

1 minute ago, Drogba1 said:

What kind of football would you prefer? Most of the worlds top managers play a heavily possession orientated style these days, difference is teams like Man City actually have the players to execute it. In Guardiola's first season there when they didn't have the players they looked terrible

The type of football that gets the ball into attacking positions quickly. The type of football where we are constantly putting pressure on the oppositions box with powerful runs, crosses, long shots, clever bits of skill and passing, pulling defenders out of position and keeping them guessing, pressing teams as soon as we lose the ball, making the opposition experience a nightmare. We don't do that, we are predictable. We slowly pass around organised defences hopelessly looking for that tiny gap to play through. The problem is that none of them are Iniesta, Xavi or Messi, they can't score the perfect goal every single game, they can't cross the ball with the accuracy and confidence of De Bruyne or score for fun like Haaland.

We score a goal and lose control of the game, the players don't have the football intelligence to adapt to a sudden change of tactics from the opposition manager. Teams press us, bully us, wait for the inevitable mistake and punish us.

When the full time whistle blows, I rarely ever feel that the opposition has been made to work that hard for their points. Getting something from a game against us is easy. Teams just need to do the basics of defending, press us, and avoid mistakes. Do those things and you will come away with something. 

1 minute ago, Scott Harris said:

The type of football that gets the ball into attacking positions quickly. The type of football where we are constantly putting pressure on the oppositions box with powerful runs, crosses, long shots, clever bits of skill and passing, pulling defenders out of position and keeping them guessing, pressing teams as soon as we lose the ball, making the opposition experience a nightmare. We don't do that, we are predictable. We slowly pass around organised defences hopelessly looking for that tiny gap to play through. The problem is that none of them are Iniesta, Xavi or Messi, they can't score the perfect goal every single game, they can't cross the ball with the accuracy and confidence of De Bruyne or score for fun like Haaland.

We score a goal and lose control of the game, the players don't have the football intelligence to adapt to a sudden change of tactics from the opposition manager. Teams press us, bully us, wait for the inevitable mistake and punish us.

When the full time whistle blows, I rarely ever feel that the opposition has been made to work that hard for their points. Getting something from a game against us is easy. Teams just need to do the basics of defending, press us, and avoid mistakes. Do those things and you will come away with something. 

So it could just be a that we need better midfielders and attackers then? Or a counter attacking style like Conte's

3 managers on and we still rely on the same midfield and 3 man defence of 2 old CBs and an out of position player.

I see no difference with Potter

4 minutes ago, Deino said:

3 managers on and we still rely on the same midfield and 3 man defence of 2 old CBs and an out of position player.

I see no difference with Potter

It will take more than a week.

Not expecting instant firework from him and the team, As said in other threads, if Boehly was serious about Potter and the long term plan, should have hired him at the start of the season and supported him all the way. Now he's in this awkward situation of trying to get results, playing the style of football been promised, and deal with the same dressing room Tuchel (allegedly) couldn't manage. This is not Brighton, a result like tonight it's a disaster, now we need to win the next 4 ( 2 against Milan) or get 10 points to qualify.

1 minute ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Not expecting instant firework from him and the team, As said in other threads, if Boehly was serious about Potter and the long term plan, should have hired him at the start of the season and supported him all the way. Now he's in this awkward situation of trying to get results, playing the style of football been promised, and deal with the same dressing room Tuchel (allegedly) couldn't manage. This is not Brighton, a result like tonight it's a disaster, now we need to win the next 4 ( 2 against Milan) or get 10 points to qualify.

Our best chance in the group is RBS and Zagreb play out 2 draws. Even with that though I think 3rd is our best possible finish.

Just now, Drogba1 said:

So it could just be a that we need better midfielders and attackers then? Or a counter attacking style like Conte's

For as long as I have been on this forum, I have said that I don't enjoy possession based football. I hated watching Barcelona and Spain and hate watching City now. It's the 90th minute and you are begging the team to get it forward quickly and they are still playing it across midfield, looking for that one moment of genius that hasn't worked for 10 games straight. It's infuriating to watch.

I watched Real Madrid in the Champions League final against Liverpool and I thought their midfield put in a masterclass performance and their attack was ruthless. We used to be like that once and I loved it. Calm on the ball, assured, passed through the lines, knew when to attack, knew when to defend and when that chance came to create something, they increased the tempo, had the defenders panicking and scored a goal.

There's a reason why a lot of fans say that 2009-10 season under Ancelotti was best football we have ever played, we were exciting to watch and could be devastating in attack. That was exciting football.

50 minutes ago, SwedishEntity said:

 

 

This is the best iteration of Potter's football? He won't survive the season

15 minutes ago, SwedishEntity said:

It will take more than a week.

Overall he had better players at Brighton that he does here at the mo.

13 minutes ago, SwedishEntity said:

It will take more than a week.

You don't get it, that type of football clashes with the way these players play football. Tuchel's best football with these players is the best iteration of Potter's football.

If Tuchel can't motivate these players with almost the same brand of football despite winning the actual CL with them, I really don't see how Potter can get a tune out of them. I would be very surprised if the musical theater therapy works

Give the manager time a few days in charge won’t change bad behaviour in players who have been doing the exact same thing for years.

if Azpi didn’t let his man run across him I believe we win that 1:0 but losing the first match really put us on the back foot and I don’t expect us to get out of this group now.

I can see us losing against Milan in both matches just because they are ahead of us with a stable setup. 
Until we get that stability we will be like this for a while to come.

2 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Overall he had better players at Brighton that he does here at the mo.

I don't think so, I do think he had players willing to do whatever he tells them to do at Brighton tho.

Really doubt he can ask the same out of our players

1 minute ago, Deino said:

You don't get it, that type of football clashes with the way these players play football. Tuchel's best football with these players is the best iteration of Potter's football.

If Tuchel can't motivate these players with almost the same brand of football despite winning the actual CL with them, I really don't see how Potter can get a tune out of them. I would be very surprised if the musical theater therapy works

Players are not good enough at the top level. We had that perfect storm of Mendy being superb, Silva marshaling a magnificent defence, Kante dominating midfield and even Pulisic contributing to our CL success.

However time has gone on, Kantes injuries happen more often, Mendys Malouda year is done, our other defenders cannot make up the difference at the back and our forwards are even worse. 

5 minutes ago, Deino said:

You don't get it, that type of football clashes with the way these players play football. Tuchel's best football with these players is the best iteration of Potter's football.

If Tuchel can't motivate these players with almost the same brand of football despite winning the actual CL with them, I really don't see how Potter can get a tune out of them. I would be very surprised if the musical theater therapy works

This is my main concern.

Potter isn't some drastically different coach that sees football completely differently and will change the basic structure of the team.

He's a low budget (despite us paying him more for some ludicrous reason) less successful, less experienced and less commanding Tuchel who's far more easily malleable and puppeteered by Boehly.

Tuchel -> Potter is far less likely to improve results than it is to allow Todd and the suits to shape us into their beloved 4-4-3 or get their marketing all-stars into the team.

Edited September 14, 20223 yr by HazardousChoice