1 hour ago, WhiteWall said:

I think it's also the reflection on de Zerbi. I think de Zerbi is an ambitious manager that is going places and part of his appeal, like Pochettino, is his intensity and man management skills. Having given assurances to Caceido and MacAllister if they stayed last season and made this public, he may well take a dim view to the damage this could cause to his reputation. 

I can quite easily see de Zerbi not lasting long ar Brighton and moving on to a much bigger club. Is it really worth them risking their whole programme unravelling for the sake of about 15m, as I do think we'll go to 85m

Two other things that occur to me as potential damage to their model is (1) if they get a reputation for making it difficult for players to move on to a bigger club that will impact on players wanting to go there in the first place and (2) if they look for too much short term profit then the clubs they source their unknowns from will start asking for more money up front or a large percentage of the sell on fee.

Big crossroads for Bloom I think. He needs to decide what sort of club he wants to be ... plus not sure he has enough money to fund the step to the next level ?

2 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Two other things that occur to me as potential damage to their model is (1) if they get a reputation for making it difficult for players to move on to a bigger club that will impact on players wanting to go there in the first place and (2) if they look for too much short term profit then the clubs they source their unknowns from will start asking for more money up front or a large percentage of the sell on fee.

Big crossroads for Bloom I think. He needs to decide what sort of club he wants to be ... plus not sure he has enough money to fund the step to the next level ?

10000% on the mark.

This is why Dortmund obtain so many wonderkids, do you think Haaland would've gone there if Dortmund had the reputation of trying to latch onto their players for every penny they can get? Absolutely not. Dortmund will always see young stars come and go because it's their reputation and business model. 

2 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Two other things that occur to me as potential damage to their model is (1) if they get a reputation for making it difficult for players to move on to a bigger club that will impact on players wanting to go there in the first place and (2) if they look for too much short term profit then the clubs they source their unknowns from will start asking for more money up front or a large percentage of the sell on fee.

Big crossroads for Bloom I think. He needs to decide what sort of club he wants to be ... plus not sure he has enough money to fund the step to the next level ?

Think point 1 is overstated, even if they do make it difficult, they're still giving players a huge platform to showcase their skills in the prem that they may not have had an opportunity to do otherwise. It may discourage one or two but nothing a release clause in the contract wouldn't solve which is probably the likely outcome going forward. 

Just now, Victor90 said:

10000% on the mark.

This is why Dortmund obtain so many wonderkids, do you think Haaland would've gone there if Dortmund had the reputation of trying to latch onto their players for every penny they can get? Absolutely not. Dortmund will always see young stars come and go because it's their reputation and business model. 

Well they had started doing that, Marco Reus springs to mind. Hence my point above and Haaland having a relatively low release clause of 50m which is why City got him on the cheap.

Edited July 21, 20232 yr by ssur

2 minutes ago, ssur said:

Think point 1 is overstated, even if they do make it difficult, they're still giving players a huge platform to showcase their skills in the prem that they may not have had an opportunity to do otherwise. It may discourage one or two but nothing a release clause in the contract wouldn't solve which is probably the likely outcome going forward. 

Well they had started doing that, Marco Reus springs to mind. Hence my point above and Haaland having a relatively low release clause of 50m which is why City got him on the cheap.

If Reus wasn't made of glass he would've been following Geotze a season after. 

2 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

If Reus wasn't made of glass he would've been following Geotze a season after. 

That may also be true but gotze had a release clause of 30m or so which Bayern activated. 

3 minutes ago, ssur said:

That may also be true but gotze had a release clause of 30m or so which Bayern activated. 

I don't see how this is negating the point I made. 

Dortmund has a good reputation of building youngsters then letting them go, which is why they get access to some of the best young players in the world. 

8 hours ago, ozboy said:

Who is this Pys? Seems well informed.

Just a twitter account that regurgitates Chelsea news from actual journos, always links the source so best to check who he's quoting on a lot of his posts. 

14 minutes ago, ssur said:

Think point 1 is overstated, even if they do make it difficult, they're still giving players a huge platform to showcase their skills in the prem that they may not have had an opportunity to do otherwise. It may discourage one or two but nothing a release clause in the contract wouldn't solve which is probably the likely outcome going forward. 

Well they had started doing that, Marco Reus springs to mind. Hence my point above and Haaland having a relatively low release clause of 50m which is why City got him on the cheap.

Aren't you agreeing with him though? They either agree to sell or insert fair release clauses in contracts, or try to become a big club and hopefully bankrupt Bloom. 

2 hours ago, ozboy said:

Normally I feel if a player signs a contract there is an obligation on the player to honour it. But if there was a handshake on being allowed to move it’s different. 

(1) Only if both sides treat the handshake as binding.  

(2) It depends on the basis of the handshake. They will let him leave for (what they consider) a fair price? That strikes me as the most likely scenario in which case Brighton can justify their stance.

Plus, as has been said many times, Caicedo's agent is a first-class, 5 star f*cking idiot.

1 hour ago, Sexyfootball said:

Two other things that occur to me as potential damage to their model is (1) if they get a reputation for making it difficult for players to move on to a bigger club that will impact on players wanting to go there in the first place and (2) if they look for too much short term profit then the clubs they source their unknowns from will start asking for more money up front or a large percentage of the sell on fee.

Big crossroads for Bloom I think. He needs to decide what sort of club he wants to be ... plus not sure he has enough money to fund the step to the next level ?

This cross my mind whenever I see this story pop up if you are a young player in South America, European or Asia who wants to play for the big teams in Europe and Brighton come calling do you go their seeing how difficult they have been when that big team comes calling?

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Aren't you agreeing with him though? They either agree to sell or insert fair release clauses in contracts, or try to become a big club and hopefully bankrupt Bloom. 

No not really, he suggested this would stop them attracting players, I'm saying that it's not going to stop Brighton getting talent, will simply result in fair release clauses being inserted to avoid a repeat, which is the mistake Caicedo made when signing his new contract. Players aren't going to turn down the opportunity to play in the biggest televised league in the world, they'll just hopefully be a bit smarter. 

 

1 hour ago, Victor90 said:

I don't see how this is negating the point I made. 

Dortmund has a good reputation of building youngsters then letting them go, which is why they get access to some of the best young players in the world. 

Well it is negating as you claimed it would make it hard for them to get talent, my rebuttal is agents will simply demand release clauses so they will still attract talent if they agree to them. Dortmund didn't let them go, teams met their release clauses so had to sell contractually. I'm almost certain Dortmund weren't happy about only selling haaland for 50m when he was worth at least double that, if you genuinely believe they would have let him go for that value without the contractual obligation I'm not sure what to say!

Edited July 21, 20232 yr by ssur

49 minutes ago, ssur said:

No not really, he suggested this would stop them attracting players, I'm saying that it's not going to stop Brighton getting talent, will simply result in fair release clauses being inserted to avoid a repeat, which is the mistake Caicedo made when signing his new contract. Players aren't going to turn down the opportunity to play in the biggest televised league in the world, they'll just hopefully be a bit smarter. 

"Fair" being the operative word currently at issue with Caicedo and his team !

The natural behaviour of a club/owner is established fairly quickly ... and at the moment it is that Brighton don't do "fair" they do "heavily favouring Brighton", and in the internet/social media environment we live in just one deal could well be enough to put future players off, especially as more and more clubs now have money and are able to go scouting in places like South America and Africa, and so there are more options to potentially sign for.

Good deals are win/win. Brighton's deals are fast becoming "Brighton only win" as the model.

5 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Two other things that occur to me as potential damage to their model is (1) if they get a reputation for making it difficult for players to move on to a bigger club that will impact on players wanting to go there in the first place and (2) if they look for too much short term profit then the clubs they source their unknowns from will start asking for more money up front or a large percentage of the sell on fee.

Big crossroads for Bloom I think. He needs to decide what sort of club he wants to be ... plus not sure he has enough money to fund the step to the next level ?

It's a great point. Their young South Americana players will undoubtedly want a bigger move in the future and Bloom will make it difficult. With the fees these players are leaving for these clubs will be demanding some sort of sell on clause (similar with River and Enzo). 

I also mentioned a while back that Levi's best option was to stay at Chelsea as if he went to Brighton and Liverpool/City came knocking in 2-3 years Bloom will price him as the most expensive CB ever leaving no suitors. 

2 hours ago, ssur said:

No not really, he suggested this would stop them attracting players, I'm saying that it's not going to stop Brighton getting talent, will simply result in fair release clauses being inserted to avoid a repeat, which is the mistake Caicedo made when signing his new contract. Players aren't going to turn down the opportunity to play in the biggest televised league in the world, they'll just hopefully be a bit smarter. 

 

Well it is negating as you claimed it would make it hard for them to get talent, my rebuttal is agents will simply demand release clauses so they will still attract talent if they agree to them. Dortmund didn't let them go, teams met their release clauses so had to sell contractually. I'm almost certain Dortmund weren't happy about only selling haaland for 50m when he was worth at least double that, if you genuinely believe they would have let him go for that value without the contractual obligation I'm not sure what to say!

You're changing the goal posts though, if they don't insert release clauses players will refuse to join as he said. If they insert release clauses they'll stay as a stepping stone club. Or they have to spend a ridiculous amount on wages and challenge at the top for a decade to be seriously considered an attractive destination. 

11 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

You're changing the goal posts though, if they don't insert release clauses players will refuse to join as he said. If they insert release clauses they'll stay as a stepping stone club. Or they have to spend a ridiculous amount on wages and challenge at the top for a decade to be seriously considered an attractive destination. 

That is the evolution of this point though, it's not as simple as saying players won't join, they will with some added protection on their end, and even then there will undoubtedly be cases where players will still join especially if brighton are the only club in for them as the chance to play in the premier league is too big an opportunity to turn down. 

1 hour ago, Sexyfootball said:

"Fair" being the operative word currently at issue with Caicedo and his team !

The natural behaviour of a club/owner is established fairly quickly ... and at the moment it is that Brighton don't do "fair" they do "heavily favouring Brighton", and in the internet/social media environment we live in just one deal could well be enough to put future players off, especially as more and more clubs now have money and are able to go scouting in places like South America and Africa, and so there are more options to potentially sign for.

Good deals are win/win. Brighton's deals are fast becoming "Brighton only win" as the model.

Indeed, fair is ultimately up to the player agent and team to determine. Though we've seen how bad agents have been clearly for Caicedo in this regard! Why his new team ever agreed to a deal in January without a release clause is baffling. 

I doubt any young player outside of England would choose not to sign for Brighton because Bloom is difficult to deal with when selling on.

Their primary concern would be to play in the EPL. And I’d imagine the higher the fee that Bloom gets, the higher amount would go to the player and his agent.

Everyone is a winner apart from the buying club.

 

1 hour ago, 19seventyone said:

I doubt any young player outside of England would choose not to sign for Brighton because Bloom is difficult to deal with when selling on.

Their primary concern would be to play in the EPL. And I’d imagine the higher the fee that Bloom gets, the higher amount would go to the player and his agent.

Everyone is a winner apart from the buying club.

 

It's not the players he needs to worry about, it's the agents who have a lot of power in the game. If he pisses them off then he will definitely make it difficult for his club to sign players in the future.

The club is standing firm on their valuation of Caceido, and also appears they want to see what some of the youth can do. If you’re good enough, you’re old enough, and I think that might be the case with Santos. 

We do need quality and depth though, but can see this one going thru August. Best make sure the fax machine is on, has toner and paper, and someone knows how to use it! 

1 hour ago, PhilH930 said:

The club is standing firm on their valuation of Caceido, and also appears they want to see what some of the youth can do. If you’re good enough, you’re old enough, and I think that might be the case with Santos. 

We do need quality and depth though, but can see this one going thru August. Best make sure the fax machine is on, has toner and paper, and someone knows how to use it! 

Unless Brighton decide to agree to our valuation, then I suspect we will look at alternatives. Brighton may ultimately decide to take what is already a very decent offer, rather than risk having an unhappy player on their roster. But we shall see.

Feeling if it doesn't happen next week then he's staying. 

As many have alluded to, this will jeopardize some players joining Brighton or forcing them to include a release clause. 

12 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Feeling if it doesn't happen next week then he's staying. 

As many have alluded to, this will jeopardize some players joining Brighton or forcing them to include a release clause. 

There is no change in this despite weeks of talks.

 

Brighton want the same fee at least as Rice OR Colwill plus 70mill (as they think he should be valued at 30mill)

We value Caicedo at between 70-80mill and WILL NOT sell or loan them Colwill.

 

Deals dead in the water, just both sides expect the other caves so official it is not done yet.

1 hour ago, PhilH930 said:

The club is standing firm on their valuation of Caceido, and also appears they want to see what some of the youth can do. If you’re good enough, you’re old enough, and I think that might be the case with Santos. 

We do need quality and depth though, but can see this one going thru August. Best make sure the fax machine is on, has toner and paper, and someone knows how to use it! 

This is fine providing we continue to progress other targets and don't hold back whilst waiting for this to be concluded. We may still require a CB now and possibly a further striker and/or attacking midfielder for depth.

Pochettino's clearly getting rather impatient by comments in the two pressers he's had. It's on the club now to support the manager and there needs to be an urgency to it.

For me Caicedo just needs to get done no matter the cost at this point.

Edited July 21, 20232 yr by OriginalS

23 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

Pochettino's clearly getting rather impatient by comments in the two pressers he's had. It's on the club now to support the manager and there needs to be an urgency to it.

For me Caicedo just needs to get done no matter the cost at this point.

Kind of agree with this particularly if we are looking to add defensive cover for Fofana and possibly a further striker. Too much fannying around over Caceido and the Lukaku soap opera. We need to get our business done as early as possible so these players get the utmost amount of time working with Pochettino and his team before the season gets under way.

So sick of hearing this guy's name. You'd think he's the only CM in the world who could improve us.