6 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

I assume Caicedo has an equally grueling travel and fixture list. Means 2 of our midfield 3 are.not likely at their sharpest for Arsenal. That is a big problem.

They both play Tuesday the 17th, to which I would assume they would be on the first plane back to England. We play Arsenal that Saturday. 

Think they'll be alright baring no injuries. 

6 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

They both play Tuesday the 17th, to which I would assume they would be on the first plane back to England. We play Arsenal that Saturday. 

Think they'll be alright baring no injuries. 

Last time around I believe they also had Tuesday night games before pur weekend match, tuesday evening which becomes Wednesday morning UK time. 

I think Enzo was back Thursday night and took part in Friday's training, however Caicedos return was delayed and he arrived back Friday morning and had a late training session Friday night before our game.

Basically no way I expect after the temperature and altitude changes, time zone changes and flights that they are near 100% for Arsenal.

12 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Last time around I believe they also had Tuesday night games before pur weekend match, tuesday evening which becomes Wednesday morning UK time. 

I think Enzo was back Thursday night and took part in Friday's training, however Caicedos return was delayed and he arrived back Friday morning and had a late training session Friday night before our game.

Basically no way I expect after the temperature and altitude changes, time zone changes and flights that they are near 100% for Arsenal.

Enzo will play v Peru at altitude on Wednesday morning (UK time) 3 days before the Arsenal game. Last time he played v Bolivia at altitude 4 days before. As did MacAllister who Klopp had to sub at half time.

We should rest him then though who replaces him is something for Poch to ponder.

Of course being an international Arsenal might have injuries too.

4 hours ago, dermott said:

Enzo will play v Peru at altitude on Wednesday morning (UK time) 3 days before the Arsenal game. Last time he played v Bolivia at altitude 4 days before. As did MacAllister who Klopp had to sub at half time.

The fact that he’s at altitude should be an advantage as he’s bound to develop more blood red cells and more oxigenación capacity. Many athletes train at altitude for that reason. The flights in and out plus the time difference is a disadvantage.

14 minutes ago, RMH said:

The fact that he’s at altitude should be an advantage as he’s bound to develop more blood red cells and more oxigenación capacity. Many athletes train at altitude for that reason. The flights in and out plus the time difference is a disadvantage.

The quality of opposition, Arsenals work rate, makes for a hard task for them. Arsenals midfielders should be back much earlier with much shorter flights and no real timezone changes.

Maybe they sleep well on the flights back to the UK, arrive in good time and look fine in training. Maybe not. Pochettino will have to assess of they are ready for a side like Arsenal or not.

1 hour ago, RMH said:

The fact that he’s at altitude should be an advantage as he’s bound to develop more blood red cells and more oxigenación capacity. Many athletes train at altitude for that reason. The flights in and out plus the time difference is a disadvantage.

Athletes train for at least a month at altitude and are acclimatised. They play Paraguay at home, then Peru at 4,000+m five days later. Then he plays Arsenal three days later. Poch won't expect 90 minutes out of him.

37 minutes ago, dermott said:

Athletes train for at least a month at altitude and are acclimatised. They play Paraguay at home, then Peru at 4,000+m five days later. Then he plays Arsenal three days later. Poch won't expect 90 minutes out of him.

Might be best served to rest him with Lesely coming in. Will all depend how he is after the second game.

Very solid performances with his national squad against Paraguay and Peru

Edited October 18, 20232 yr by Upb78

On 09/10/2023 at 12:01, axman2526 said:

Might be best served to rest him with Lesely coming in. Will all depend how he is after the second game.

Given that both Caicedo and Enzo played yesterday and then had a long haul flight to get back to London, you might think it makes sense for them to start on the bench Saturday. But in a big game like this we really need both players. So I suspect they will start. At least they have no midweek game between Arsenal and Brentford

7 hours ago, forbzy said:

Given that both Caicedo and Enzo played yesterday and then had a long haul flight to get back to London, you might think it makes sense for them to start on the bench Saturday. But in a big game like this we really need both players. So I suspect they will start. At least they have no midweek game between Arsenal and Brentford

A 12-14 hour flight for Enzo after playing at 4,000m. I wonder whether first class mitigates against jet lag. I must find out. One day.

I wonder if we flew any of them back private - potentially organized with other clubs. Even if commercial, if they get 4-6 hours sleep they can adjust pretty quickly. 

1 hour ago, PhilH930 said:

I wonder if we flew any of them back private - potentially organized with other clubs. Even if commercial, if they get 4-6 hours sleep they can adjust pretty quickly. 

They travelled last night. 

3 hours ago, dermott said:

A 12-14 hour flight for Enzo after playing at 4,000m. I wonder whether first class mitigates against jet lag. I must find out. One day.

It's something i don't understand enough, these lads are flying in the most comfort available, most likely sleep the majority of the way, treat like Kings etc. I'm not sure how much impact travel like this has on them.

43 minutes ago, dkw said:

It's something i don't understand enough, these lads are flying in the most comfort available, most likely sleep the majority of the way, treat like Kings etc. I'm not sure how much impact travel like this has on them.

It's the match at altitude I worry about more than the distance.

I know it's a totally different level but when I played a game at high altitude in Central America years back I honestly felt how i usually felt after an hour within 5 minutes.

Edited October 19, 20232 yr by Argo

Trained today. 
 

 

2 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Trained today. 
 

 

Unfortunately I didn't see caicedo in any of the pics neither did I see reece james

15 minutes ago, The Don Antonio said:

Unfortunately I didn't see caicedo in any of the pics neither did I see reece james

If no Caicedo, no points for us on Saturday imo.

4 hours ago, Argo said:

It's the match at altitude I worry about more than the distance.

I know it's a totally different level but when I played a game at high altitude in Central America years back I honestly felt how i usually felt after an hour within 5 minutes.

Yeah that's a good point, I expect that will definitely have an impact. 

4 hours ago, axman2526 said:

If no Caicedo, no points for us on Saturday imo.

Totally agree. He is so crucial in protecting our back 4 while  also allowing Enzo and Gallagher to push up.  

2 hours ago, The Don Antonio said:

Totally agree. He is so crucial in protecting our back 4 while  also allowing Enzo and Gallagher to push up.  

Exactly. I trust in Conor and Enzo to do that, to give Rice a hard time and support our attackers, but we need Caicedo to stop Odegaard and do what Kante used do for us as well.

If we can stop Odegaard getting the time to create, we cut off a big outlet to Saka.

15 hours ago, dkw said:

It's something i don't understand enough, these lads are flying in the most comfort available, most likely sleep the majority of the way, treat like Kings etc. I'm not sure how much impact travel like this has on them.

Jet-lag (ie. impact on circadian rhythm) can be an issue if there is insufficient time between travel and a game. People are adaptable, but they need a few days to adapt. Interestingly, some Australian research back in 2014 tracked one of our A-League teams during the 2012-13 regular season and found negligible travel effects (we have 3 timezones) but a 2017 study by the same author , tracking the Australian team travelling to the 2014 World Cup, found issues with sleep and recovery - suggesting it's possibly direction of travel (ie jet lag risk) and recovery time allowed for players post-trip, rather than the travel per se.

Flying east, you lose time and that can upset your circadian rhythm and sleep. Those of us who live in Australia or NZ and try to go back to work the day after a Euro trip know this all to well!
 

14 hours ago, Argo said:

It's the match at altitude I worry about more than the distance.

I know it's a totally different level but when I played a game at high altitude in Central America years back I honestly felt how i usually felt after an hour within 5 minutes.

Heh, nice pun

Playing in altitude is a lot harder than returning from altitude, though.

1 hour ago, SydneyChelsea said:

Jet-lag (ie. impact on circadian rhythm) can be an issue if there is insufficient time between travel and a game. People are adaptable, but they need a few days to adapt. Interestingly, some Australian research back in 2014 tracked one of our A-League teams during the 2012-13 regular season and found negligible travel effects (we have 3 timezones) but a 2017 study by the same author , tracking the Australian team travelling to the 2014 World Cup, found issues with sleep and recovery - suggesting it's possibly direction of travel (ie jet lag risk) and recovery time allowed for players post-trip, rather than the travel per se.

Flying east, you lose time and that can upset your circadian rhythm and sleep. Those of us who live in Australia or NZ and try to go back to work the day after a Euro trip know this all to well!
 

Heh, nice pun

Playing in altitude is a lot harder than returning from altitude, though.

When we went to New York I had no problems with the flight to America, but when we got home to the UK it smashed me, I slept for about 2 days straight, so that fits in with the theory of eastward travel.

Props for telling Sterling to f**k off so that Palmer can take the penalty kick in peace.

Thought both he and Caicedo did well despite both of them looking knackered in the 2nd half. 

I think moving forward, this mid block tactical shift against top sides is going to work really well given the space they will leave. Need more bodies or better attacking impetus further forward however to capitalize on the lack of players we will have in the transition. 

Gallagher did very well, but I think Nkunku would've crucified Arsenal last night.