6 hours ago, andy said:

What would have you done ? - Genuinely not being provocative. 😊

So I think bringing Palmer on was good but it being for Mainoo was wrong. You could see during the period after we scored and sat deeper and deeper that Bellingham was knackered.  He wasn't shutting anybody down and was largely going through the motions. But with Mainoo off it kept Bellingham on and prevented a further attacking sub.

Also during the phase of our ascendancy, brief as it was, we didn't think about throwing Gordon's pace on in getting at a Carvajal that loves to dive in recklessly. 

• I probably would have done Palmer for Foden rather than Mainoo.
• Then I would probably have gone Gordon for Saka, pushing Palmer wider on the right.
• I would also have then gone for Eze for Bellingham. I just rate Eze and would want him to press high.
• If we had nicked a second goal I may have gone Gallagher for Bellingham instead to harass their players and break up their momentum
• I had no problem with Watkins for Kane.

So mine would have been a bit more sh*t or bust but it's a final and I don't do three dimensional chess, i rather go down swinging tbh.

Spain and Argentina winning was the default prior to the tournaments start.

Spain was last time just about ready to play the final with Gavi-Pedri duo, now even without them they showed to have the best midfield and no penalty shootout to stop them either.

England becomes the first nation to lose back-to-back Euro finals, maybe not a coincidence while Kane and Rice are the key players.

41 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Spain and Argentina winning was the default prior to the tournaments start.

Spain was last time just about ready to play the final with Gavi-Pedri duo, now even without them they showed to have the best midfield and no penalty shootout to stop them either.

England becomes the first nation to lose back-to-back Euro finals, maybe not a coincidence while Kane and Rice are the key players.

I generally agree although I think the last point is too much of a generalisation. I do certainly agree that Southgate favours senior pals over form players to a fault.

I think it may be fairer to say that the players most spoken of are Pickford's shot stopping, Walker's pace, Stones' and Guehi's partnership and the breakthrough of Mainoo. Effectively all defensive positions and an indication of our tournament. Most of the forward positions have not meshed well and Southgate has wantonly neglected the opportunity to allow certain players to blossom through the tournament. Wharton, Eze, Gordon and of course Palmer were all available to look at and see if relationships can gel.

Well deserved by Spain.

Not having all the Southgate praise whatsoever, to have a team with the quality that England do playing like they do is not an accomplishment. I think I read something that Southgates England have only beat two teams ranked in the top 10 over his tenure, that says a lot. It's all good throwing around he's got to finals, semis, etc. But England have had a lot of lucky draws in tournaments, look who the Spanish had to beat to get to the final. 

Happy for Cole though, did a lot with the scraps that he was fed and really showcased to the masses how good he really is. 

49 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Most of the forward positions have not meshed well and Southgate has wantonly neglected the opportunity to allow certain players to blossom through the tournament. Wharton, Eze, Gordon and of course Palmer were all available to look at and see if relationships can gel.

Southgate kept faith with his underperforming attacking quartet with predictable results.

In 7 games at the Euros that quartet (Kane, Saka, Foden, Bellingham) only had 15 shots on target between them (6 for Kane, 5 for Foden, 3 for Bellingham and 1 for Saka). 

 

34 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

Well deserved by Spain.

Not having all the Southgate praise whatsoever, to have a team with the quality that England do playing like they do is not an accomplishment. I think I read something that Southgates England have only beat two teams ranked in the top 10 over his tenure, that says a lot. It's all good throwing around he's got to finals, semis, etc. But England have had a lot of lucky draws in tournaments, look who the Spanish had to beat to get to the final. 

Happy for Cole though, did a lot with the scraps that he was fed and really showcased to the masses how good he really is. 

Spain has a better team but more importantly a better system, their coach already won Euro U19 and U21 prior to this one, it's impressive that even without Pedri, Gavi and even Rodri that was off in the second half they still had a more than decent option in Zubimendi.

Edited July 15, 20242 yr by Gol15

6 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Southgate kept faith with his underperforming attacking quartet with predictable results.

In 7 games at the Euros that quartet (Kane, Saka, Foden, Bellingham) only had 15 shots on target between them (6 for Kane, 5 for Foden, 3 for Bellingham and 1 for Saka). 

 

For finalists of a major international tournament that's poor by any measure, surely.

You would hope that people like Holland etc would get able to throw in balanced arguments like this as a counterpoint to any in tournament tunnel vision that may be developing.

6 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Spain has a better team but more importantly a better system, their coach already won Euro U19 and U21 prior to this one, it's impressive that even without Pedro, Gavi and even Rodri that was off in the second half they still had a more than decent option in Zubimendi.

Great point. All the commentators and pundits were oooh-ing and aaah-ing over Rodri coming out and what a great chance for us. Change made, seamless transition and they got stronger and stronger.

Poor old Gareth is still lamenting never being able to replace Kalvin Phillips

2 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

For finalists of a major international tournament that's poor by any measure, surely.

You would hope that people like Holland etc would get able to throw in balanced arguments like this as a counterpoint to any in tournament tunnel vision that may be developing.

You'd have to be extremely lucky to win a tournament in which you've only scored 8 goals in 7 games, 2 of which went to extra time !

8 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

Foden shouldn't have started every game. He is clearly struggling with playing in a defensive system. In all honesty, if we do get a progressive coach and Foden is still not performing, then I would drop him for Gordon. I've had a feeling for a while that Foden can only work in one system, and if that is the case, then he will be useless under any coach that doesn't play similar football to Guardiola.

I predict Foden will never, ever be the same player in an England shirt that he has been under Pep for City. He was terrible yesterday and has been for most of the tournament.

5 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Anyone else just don’t like Bellingham? Seems like an arrogant prick half the time. Just walked off the pitch at full time without congratulating a single Spanish player. Not even his Real Madrid colleagues. Seems like a sore loser when ever he isn’t winning and “big brothering” other players. 

I agree, but he's only 20/21 and has had so much smoke blown up his arse at such a young age that it's almost a given that he'd be like that ... 

Edited July 15, 20242 yr by Sexyfootball

8 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

I agree, but he's only 20/21 and has had so much smoke blown up his arse at such a young age that it's almost a given that he'd be like that ... 

First half vs Serbia he looked like Zidane, but suddenly the Southgate coaching kicked in the second half and England never changed from that till the end of the tournament, it really felt like when the team played more naturally that they could do much better so in my mind there is no excuse for Gareth he looks like he's putting shackles on world class talents.

Two consecutive Euro finals despite Southgate, not thanks to Southgate. We had the players to win this, as we did playing at home 3 years back. All this nonsense about him unifying the squad and being a great man manager, way to defensive and negative to get the best out of the talent at his disposal. Good teams don’t defend one goal leads, or level pegging hoping to go to penalties, they defend two goal leads. Been cynical about our lack of success despite different forms of management- cuddly Sven as opposed to disciplinarian Cappello- common theme however slow tempo football- however think Gareth had more strength in depth than the above and bottled it

1 hour ago, just said:

I predict Foden will never, ever be the same player in an England shirt that he has been under Pep for City. He was terrible yesterday and has been for most of the tournament.

Despite not having a marking job and being able to run free he looked lost. Total wet fart

4 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

So I think bringing Palmer on was good but it being for Mainoo was wrong. You could see during the period after we scored and sat deeper and deeper that Bellingham was knackered.  He wasn't shutting anybody down and was largely going through the motions. But with Mainoo off it kept Bellingham on and prevented a further attacking sub.

Also during the phase of our ascendancy, brief as it was, we didn't think about throwing Gordon's pace on in getting at a Carvajal that loves to dive in recklessly. 

• I probably would have done Palmer for Foden rather than Mainoo.
• Then I would probably have gone Gordon for Saka, pushing Palmer wider on the right.
• I would also have then gone for Eze for Bellingham. I just rate Eze and would want him to press high.
• If we had nicked a second goal I may have gone Gallagher for Bellingham instead to harass their players and break up their momentum
• I had no problem with Watkins for Kane.

So mine would have been a bit more sh*t or bust but it's a final and I don't do three dimensional chess, i rather go down swinging tbh.

Disagree. I was calling for Palmer for Mainoo too to be honest. It was a good sub. The problem is you can't take off both Kane and Jude as one of them will almost always come up with something to win you a game. Kane was the obvious choice to take off considering how bad he was. 

In regards to us sitting deeper and deeper, I believe this is why Connor was getting ready to come on (most likely to replace Foden) so we can at least get some sort of high press going. 

13 hours ago, Valerie said:

I read that as Two great nuns. But I still don't need reading glasses.

You were right the first time. Cancel the Specsavers appointment.

 

9 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

This has to be the most impressive Euro win in our lifetime surely? 
 

Croatia

Italy

Germany

France 

England 

Yep and if Guehi does not switch off perhaps it goes to penalties.

Why are people like Jamie Carragher, Geoff Hurst saying Southgate must stay..GET RID OF

He carried on picking his favourites, Bellingham, Foden, Kane, Saka and even Rice, was saved time and again by subs, he got lucky and it run out in the final.

i think Potter is next in line, has turned down job offers , waiting for the England job?

5 minutes ago, POCH OUT said:

Why are people like Jamie Carragher, Geoff Hurst saying Southgate must stay..GET RID OF

He carried on picking his favourites, Bellingham, Foden, Kane, Saka and even Rice, was saved time and again by subs, he got lucky and it run out in the final.

i think Potter is next in line, has turned down job offers , waiting for the England job?

I sincerely hope not - don't like to say it but we need a foreigner who, like Spain, Germany or France, will choose a system and pick a balanced team to fit that system.

We all know what England's strengths are it just takes a capable manager will big enough balls to take the tough decisions, and Potter is definitely not that, to sit down plan it out and get the fk on with it before we lose another crop of talent through age.

Where is the special one these days ?

😁

46 minutes ago, POCH OUT said:

Why are people like Jamie Carragher, Geoff Hurst saying Southgate must stay..GET RID OF

He carried on picking his favourites, Bellingham, Foden, Kane, Saka and even Rice, was saved time and again by subs, he got lucky and it run out in the final.

i think Potter is next in line, has turned down job offers , waiting for the England job?

They just splurt out nonsense for sake of it. Merson the same. All saying Kane must start this game, that game. They said he must start game against Holland. Did f**k all, then said he must start the final... did f**k all. Makes me laugh when there is this "Kane has to start". Based on what?.... LOL

Southgate is out of his depth. England, with their talent should not be needing ET to beat Slovakia. Penalties to beat Switzerland. The awful performances we see in the group stage. He is out his depth. We should be seeing England doing to teams, what Spain have been doing. As good as Spain have been, not much of that outfield team apart from Rodri get into that England team. The performances have been awful. Picking the same players in the team who keep underperforming. How in the hell do the FA believe he is the man to carry this talented squad forward??

I wouldn’t go as far to say England should build the team around Cole Palmer, but he simply has to be a permanent starter. Back half of the domestic season he was the best midfielder in the Premiership by a country mile. Would anyone want to swap him with Foden at CFC?  As touched on by others, Southgate’s major flaw, was continually picking his teachers pets. Awful manager full stop

 

Spain beat Croatia, Italy, France and Germany and then they beat England. Easily the best team in the tournament.

England. Great squad of individual players. Not much in terms of tactics and strategy. Not really a plan or overall style. Like many others I have never been convinced by Southgate - clearly a nice bloke, especially in the early “waistcoat” days, but he totally lacks the coaching skills and ability needed at this level. IF he goes, fine, if he stays that is also fine, as the replacements being talked about are not convincing either; Potter and Poch in the frame. Sweet baby Jebus. Frying pan meet the fire.

 

The way that Southgate managed the squad and players during the entire tournament was fundamentally wrong. It was all over the place. The fact that he didn’t have a proper idea about who to play and in what formation to play them tells you all you need to know. In terms of substitutions Southgate merely reacted as best he could and relied on the individual brilliance of key players. Southgates tactically inept approach was obvious From the outset his brilliant idea was Trent as a centre midfield player.

“Runners-up they might have been, but England seldom looked like the second best team in this competition. They were eighth by goals scored, 13th when you removed penalties from the equation. On shots taken, they were 19th. On “expected goals”, the metric that establishes a team’s likelihood of scoring, they were 21st of the 24 teams here.”

‘England have good players but they were boring as batsh** to a neutral. 

12 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Anyone else just don’t like Bellingham? Seems like an arrogant prick half the time. Just walked off the pitch at full time without congratulating a single Spanish player. Not even his Real Madrid colleagues. Seems like a sore loser when ever he isn’t winning and “big brothering” other players. 

I liked him until my friend pointed this out not in this match but in general that he’s seems arrogant. Then since that I can’t not see him as arrogant. I have no problem with arrogance that’s confidence but he seems like he thinks he’s the bees knees.

Well if you are show it then, drag your nation to a trophy like R7, like messi….

3 hours ago, Bebe1980 said:

I sincerely hope not - don't like to say it but we need a foreigner who, like Spain, Germany or France, will choose a system and pick a balanced team to fit that system.

We all know what England's strengths are it just takes a capable manager will big enough balls to take the tough decisions, and Potter is definitely not that, to sit down plan it out and get the fk on with it before we lose another crop of talent through age.

Where is the special one these days ?

😁

He's just left the Bayern job and is primed, ready to go.