On 27/05/2023 at 17:42, Scott Harris said:

Agree with the above replies. We need some power and somebody with a bit of aggression. Ugarte looks to be more of the same.

From what I've seen, Ugarte is actually very tenacious and gritty.

6ft and quite stocky, looks like the perfect partner for Enzo and will give us some much needed bite in the middle of the park 

8 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Aye his rash challenges are my biggest concern. 

For that reason I'd rather we go in hard for Joao Palinha, I think he's a fantastic player. Incredible tackler and adds height in defence, but at 27 he's a massive FFP liability if it goes tits up.

Caicedo is still a name being mentioned by Romano. 

I wonder if the club do intend on getting both Ugarte and Caicedo. 

57 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Caicedo is still a name being mentioned by Romano. 

I wonder if the club do intend on getting both Ugarte and Caicedo. 

Depends how many players we can clear out and how much we get for them.

Those 2 midfielders are.probably 140moll or so combined, maybe more. How much does a new keeper cost us? Who is the striker? Are we really looking at 120mill to Napoli for Big Vic now their coach has resigned?

3 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Caicedo is still a name being mentioned by Romano. 

I wonder if the club do intend on getting both Ugarte and Caicedo. 

 

2 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Depends how many players we can clear out and how much we get for them.

Those 2 midfielders are.probably 140moll or so combined, maybe more. How much does a new keeper cost us? Who is the striker? Are we really looking at 120mill to Napoli for Big Vic now their coach has resigned?

Yeah. Pretty much this. I think if we go for Ugarte, then we may go for another CM, but not Caicedo as will be too expensive. Caicedo will go for no less than £80m unless there a gentleman's agreement and he goes for slightly less. Also if we go for both, it is likely that one of them is on the bench, most likely Uguarte so I reckon we maybe buy another cheaper CM as a back up option. I hope Caicedo and Rice do not go Arsenal sa I have heard they may possibly target both also.

Just now, STATS said:

 

Yeah. Pretty much this. I think if we go for Ugarte, then we may go for another CM, but not Caicedo as will be too expensive. Caicedo will go for no less than £80m unless there a gentleman's agreement and he goes for slightly less. Also if we go for both, it is likely that one of them is on the bench, most likely Uguarte so I reckon we maybe buy another cheaper CM as a back up option. I hope Caicedo and Rice do not go Arsenal sa I have heard they may possibly target both also.

Agree on your price point, not on one of them being a bench player.

I imagine if we can afford to get both then Ugarte and Caicedo play a bit deeper and give Enzo license to go forward more.

5 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Agree on your price point, not on one of them being a bench player.

I imagine if we can afford to get both then Ugarte and Caicedo play a bit deeper and give Enzo license to go forward more.

For me, we can do that against the so called 'bigger' teams but against the smaller teams, if the amount of attackers we have, we really should be going 4-2-3-1 or 3-4-3 imo. That is why I don't include all three. For instance if we get a CF and we play 4-3-3, we then have Nkunku, Sterling, Madueke, Mudryk, possibly Felix all competing for the winger spots. That is why for me, I would be surprised for 4-3-3 to be our default formation.

How many times have we seen smaller teams completely run through our midfield though. More clubs are adopting a pressing game and we have seen just how much we struggle from building out against it. 

 

Just now, Sconnie Blue said:

How many times have we seen smaller teams completely run through our midfield though. More clubs are adopting a pressing game and we have seen just how much we struggle from building out against it. 

 

That's because of the size of players we have in our CM. Not enough muscle. Arsenal and United have two man midfield but have stronger, physical players. Most the players we have played in that position are either on the smaller side or don't have the legs.

2 hours ago, STATS said:

That's because of the size of players we have in our CM. Not enough muscle. Arsenal and United have two man midfield but have stronger, physical players. Most the players we have played in that position are either on the smaller side or don't have the legs.

Think the biggest criticism under Lampard was that he never implemented a basic principle in defending compact. We are all over the place. 

Enzo and Ugarte complement each other well but both have a lot to learn. Add Nkunku at CAM, I worry just how defensively strong this midfield can be as opposed to a midfield three of Ugarte, Enzo, and Caicedo where Nkunku could be the RF/LF. 

 

3 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Think the biggest criticism under Lampard was that he never implemented a basic principle in defending compact. We are all over the place. 

Enzo and Ugarte complement each other well but both have a lot to learn. Add Nkunku at CAM, I worry just how defensively strong this midfield can be as opposed to a midfield three of Ugarte, Enzo, and Caicedo where Nkunku could be the RF/LF. 

 

The options would be nice, varying in game and based on opposition or home/away.  

Agree with your sentiment though.  Caicedo would be a huge signing for me, and give the midfield an engine it has lacked since Kante's injury woes (and something we have always had back to Maka, Essien, Ramires, Kante, etc).

Manuel Ugarte prefers Chelsea and is particularly pleased with Chelsea’s project, he has the chance to play in the Premier League, a competitive level higher than Ligue 1. Mauricio Pochettino told Chelsea’s board he plans to count on Ugarte next season. (@Record_Portugal) #CFC
 

Chelsea’s offer : £52m clause + £4.3m in achievable add ons. Ugarte has meetings with elements from Chelsea soon to understand if they will formalise this offer. (@Record_Portugal) #CFC

Not being in Europe shouldn't matter.  He's 22 and has his whole career to play in Europe. What's best for him is which club will present the best role for him moving forward. 

- Play in the Premier League

- Work under Pochettino

- Play at a big club

- Play at a club where they are further along their project vs PSG. 

- Be an integral part of a young and promising team. 

 

 

 

On 29/05/2023 at 07:57, Sconnie Blue said:

Caicedo is still a name being mentioned by Romano. 

I wonder if the club do intend on getting both Ugarte and Caicedo. 

Seems like this could be the plan, let’s hope it happens

Would prefer caicedo if it’s one or the other. Less risk

Fabrizio Romano -

“I think there will be a very big revolution in midfield this summer for Chelsea”

Wouldn't be surprised if we are targeting both Ugarte and Caicedo tbf

Romano has spoken on numerous occasions of our interest in Caicedo

 

Ugarte will fit in perfectly with his goal scoring record.

Todd Boehly was present in the meeting yesterday, he met with Manuel Ugarte, Jorge Mendes and Jorge Chijane. He was presented with €2m annual salary, through a long term deal, in order to soften the investment, spreading it over several years and reducing the impact of spending on UEFA fair play. (@Record_Portugal)
 

Ugarte saw Chelsea as almost a done deal but is now reticent over his future after seeing the disparity in wages. (@Record_Portugal) #CFC
 

with a new round of negotiations set to take place between clubs and player. PSG also offered sporting to pay in 2 installments of 30 million, whilst Chelsea offered it over 5 installments.

Although Manuel Ugarte prefers the #Chelsea project, PSG have offered him a salary of €5M-a-year compared to the Blues’ €2M-a-year. Mauricio Pochettino wants Ugarte and has called him to try to convince him. 

[via @Record_Portugal]
 

Note: Both salary offers made to Manuel Ugarte from PSG [€5M] and #Chelsea [€2M] are tax free.

[via @Record_Portugal]

Seen a bit about changing the offer again but I reckon the difference is the “champions league” wage vs the “not champions league” wage and the £2m includes the non CL deduction 

Presumably our offer will rise depending on bonuses etc if we qualify for Champions League. Otherwise it looks pretty low compared to what PSG are offering. 

Now if Todd has indeed taken a step back why is he the one at this meeting and not either Stewart, Winstanley or both?

Also is anyone surprised PSG is offering way more money than us? Only clubs in Saudi or other oil states offer more ridiculous money than they do.

Good test though, go for the big pay day and kill your career there like Veratti did staying there or have a chance to develop in a top league. 

Don't mind that. If we get priced out than so be it. Can't have our wage bill killing any sustainability moving forward. Incentivized contracts healthier for the long term. 

PSG's offer has fewer installments but our offer includes D. Fofana on loan which has peaked a lot of interest from Sporting. 

53 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Don't mind that. If we get priced out than so be it. Can't have our wage bill killing any sustainability moving forward. Incentivized contracts healthier for the long term. 

PSG's offer has fewer installments but our offer includes D. Fofana on loan which has peaked a lot of interest from Sporting. 

It may well happen more this window if we chase targets other big clubs want. We have to be fair in this and if Enzo and co lost 30%of their wages for no CL qualifications then any new signing has to start 30% down with the option for it to go up if we return to the CL.