10 hours ago, The Brit said:

Never like seeing Liverpool win but it’s good to see Newcastle taken down a peg. Same goes for Brighton on Saturday. Fans of both clubs have been talking too much sh*te.

Haha, a good point and for us with multiple injuries interesting to see what happens to Van Dijk hopefully the authorities don't bottle it. 

15 minutes ago, strider6004 said:

Haha, a good point and for us with multiple injuries interesting to see what happens to Van Dijk hopefully the authorities don't bottle it. 

Well, seeing as how they keep bottling it whenever Klopp loses his sh!t with the officials...

2 hours ago, just said:

It's an interesting point though isn't it? From the start Pep has been extremely fortunate to either go in to manage an already great team, or to a club with huge money available. As a "newbie" manager could he have gone in to a small club with limited resources and achieve something like Mourinho did at Porto? 

I tend to agree with @Scott Harris. I'm not sure he would have.

But if he was someone who got lucky and his ability was above the job he got he would have got found out long before now, ala Ole and Frank. If you construct arguably the best team of all time on your first club job you'll have the pick of jobs until you show considerable decline.

With the possible exception of Liverpool, every club on the planet sack their manager if Pep says he wants their job.

2 hours ago, Argo said:

But if he was someone who got lucky and his ability was above the job he got he would have got found out long before now, ala Ole and Frank. If you construct arguably the best team of all time on your first club job you'll have the pick of jobs until you show considerable decline.

With the possible exception of Liverpool, every club on the planet sack their manager if Pep says he wants their job.

Like I said, I think Guardiola is a very good coach when he has the players. He will get them to the top and keep them at the top, he's probably the best around at that, but he needs those players first before he can manage it. You only have to look at his first season at City to see it. He refused to change tactics when he didn't have the right players available, especially in defence, he wouldn't be able to get away with that if he was starting where Eddie Howe started with Newcastle. Look how many defenders Guardiola has gone through to get things right, he would never get that kind of priviledge at a Newcastle or any other club in England. 

It's not to say that Guardiola isn't a great coach, there probably isn't anybody around that is better at getting the best out of the most gifted players in the world, I just feel that he would struggle to coach players that aren't at that level. If he had the likes of Botman, Burn, Lacselles and Almiron to rely on, I don't think he would get them anywhere near top 4. They wouldn't be good enough to play a style of football Guardiola is aiming for and he wouldn't change tactics to suit their strenghts.

17 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Like I said, I think Guardiola is a very good coach when he has the players. He will get them to the top and keep them at the top, he's probably the best around at that, but he needs those players first before he can manage it. You only have to look at his first season at City to see it. He refused to change tactics when he didn't have the right players available, especially in defence, he wouldn't be able to get away with that if he was starting where Eddie Howe started with Newcastle. Look how many defenders Guardiola has gone through to get things right, he would never get that kind of priviledge at a Newcastle or any other club in England. 

It's not to say that Guardiola isn't a great coach, there probably isn't anybody around that is better at getting the best out of the most gifted players in the world, I just feel that he would struggle to coach players that aren't at that level. If he had the likes of Botman, Burn, Lacselles and Almiron to rely on, I don't think he would get them anywhere near top 4. They wouldn't be good enough to play a style of football Guardiola is aiming for and he wouldn't change tactics to suit their strenghts.

Think you are judging Pep far too harshly in what was his very first season in the Premier League. 

So long as the club and manager see eye to eye on the footballing philosophy, I don't see how Pep wouldn't of been a success at a lower table club. You only have to look at other football purists like Sarri's Napoli or Bielsa's Bilbao and see how close they came to achieving greatness, when in reality those two are levels below Pep in terms of management.

These managers essentially have to make a decision, work with what you have for the short term gain, or build the team in your image and work to achieve sustainability. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

Like I said, I think Guardiola is a very good coach when he has the players. He will get them to the top and keep them at the top, he's probably the best around at that, but he needs those players first before he can manage it. You only have to look at his first season at City to see it. He refused to change tactics when he didn't have the right players available, especially in defence, he wouldn't be able to get away with that if he was starting where Eddie Howe started with Newcastle. Look how many defenders Guardiola has gone through to get things right, he would never get that kind of priviledge at a Newcastle or any other club in England. 

It's not to say that Guardiola isn't a great coach, there probably isn't anybody around that is better at getting the best out of the most gifted players in the world, I just feel that he would struggle to coach players that aren't at that level. If he had the likes of Botman, Burn, Lacselles and Almiron to rely on, I don't think he would get them anywhere near top 4. They wouldn't be good enough to play a style of football Guardiola is aiming for and he wouldn't change tactics to suit their strenghts.

They were still good in the first season. Bravo letting in almost every shot he faced (partly his fault for buying him I know) was all that stopped them challenging if not beating us to the league. Even back then the underlying metrics pointed to Pep dominating this league and unfortunately that has happened.

Regarding the Newcastle example modern players are more adaptable these days, Spurs' squad played under Jose, Nuno and Conte for the best part of four years and have quickly adapted to Ange. I just don't see s world where Pep would flop if he had a 'lesser' job. I guess it depends on what you regard as flopping, if you expect him to win the league with anyone or everyone then ofcourse he will 'fail' but could he succeed scaled for club size and budget the way the likes of Bielsa, De Zerbi and Sarri (pre Napoli) did? Yes, I think he would have done simarly well as those examples at an absolute minimum.

22 hours ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

Honestly feel 10 men doesn't make that much of a difference from 11 in the league these days especially since several formations essentially have players playing two positions these days

10 men , a goal down , away from home ?

Might be a disadvantage there.

Only luck Pep got was he had Messi when he started at Barca, but he did take Messi to the next level, and we have seen lesser Barca managers screw things up with Messi in the team. Apart from the first year learning curve, his record is nothing short of amazing. His true greatness will show after he retires from City job, and we see the next manager stumbles along the way

2 hours ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Only luck Pep got was he had Messi when he started at Barca, but he did take Messi to the next level, and we have seen lesser Barca managers screw things up with Messi in the team. Apart from the first year learning curve, his record is nothing short of amazing. His true greatness will show after he retires from City job, and we see the next manager stumbles along the way

He had Iniesta and Xavi too, two midfielders that will be remembered as the best of their generation. Iniesta was especially gifted. If it wasn't for Messi, he would have been the one labelled as the best in the world. Having the best two players in the world in your squard who had perfect chemistry is a hell of a bonus. You can't fail. Messi was always going to be one of the best ever, I'm not sure anybody can say for sure that Guardiola took him to the next level. You only had to look at his first game for Barcelona to see that he was going to be one of the best ever. It would have happened no matter who coached him.

Pep did make some eyebrow raising decisions at the time though.

- Selling Ronaldinho and Deco. 

- Moving Toure to CB. 

- Bringing back Pique who was out of favor at United. 

- Promoting Busquets and Pedro. 

- Moving Eto'o on the wings and Messi at ST

 

Pep did turn Messi into a ruthless finisher in the final third though. Had him play with far more freedom. Concomitantly, I do agree that Aragones was probably the most responsible in elevating Iniesta and Xavi at the time. 

 

 

Van Dijk has been charged by the FA for his tantrum at the weekend.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66650729

Edited August 29, 20232 yr by Boyne

7 minutes ago, Boyne said:

Van Dijk has been charged by the FA for his tantrum at the weekend.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66650729

I look forward to his punishment of a "right good telling off"....

2 minutes ago, dkw said:

I look forward to his punishment of a "right good telling off"....

Yes, that's all it will be and possibly a petty fine of about £5,000.

Yes !

Come on Fulham, Knock those f**kers out !

17 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

He had Iniesta and Xavi too, two midfielders that will be remembered as the best of their generation. Iniesta was especially gifted. If it wasn't for Messi, he would have been the one labelled as the best in the world. Having the best two players in the world in your squard who had perfect chemistry is a hell of a bonus. You can't fail. Messi was always going to be one of the best ever, I'm not sure anybody can say for sure that Guardiola took him to the next level. You only had to look at his first game for Barcelona to see that he was going to be one of the best ever. It would have happened no matter who coached him.

I reckon it was the Barcelona youth system that take a lot of credit for Iniesta, Xavi and Messi , all at the club from the ages of between 11 and 13. And Pep I suppose.

They weren't bought with expensive transfers from elsewhere, and even though many hated the way Barca played,  I loved it, although thankfully it was their undoing in the Torres semi final win for us. 

Ramires won it really , fantastic goal 

 

 

1 hour ago, Boyne said:

Yes, that's all it will be and possibly a petty fine of about £5,000.

Reckon he'll get another 1 match ban on top.

 

19 minutes ago, The Rising Sun said:

Reckon he'll get another 1 match ban on top.

 

Hope you're right. If the FA is determined to clamp down on dissent they'll have to ban him for at least one game. If only to set an example.

spuds are out

On 28/08/2023 at 21:56, Scott Harris said:

Like I said, I think Guardiola is a very good coach when he has the players. He will get them to the top and keep them at the top, he's probably the best around at that, but he needs those players first before he can manage it. You only have to look at his first season at City to see it. He refused to change tactics when he didn't have the right players available, especially in defence, he wouldn't be able to get away with that if he was starting where Eddie Howe started with Newcastle. Look how many defenders Guardiola has gone through to get things right, he would never get that kind of priviledge at a Newcastle or any other club in England. 

It's not to say that Guardiola isn't a great coach, there probably isn't anybody around that is better at getting the best out of the most gifted players in the world, I just feel that he would struggle to coach players that aren't at that level. If he had the likes of Botman, Burn, Lacselles and Almiron to rely on, I don't think he would get them anywhere near top 4. They wouldn't be good enough to play a style of football Guardiola is aiming for and he wouldn't change tactics to suit their strenghts.

The question will be if you are city's fan do you want pep to adapt his system to hide his aging fb? 

Or you just say f that, we have unlimited money, we will just get new fb next season. It is more important to get the best out of kdb n silva. 

 

Pep tweaking his system again. From having creative/ball striking CMs in Gundogan and KDB, he is opting for ball carriers in Kovacic and Nunes. 

29 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Pep tweaking his system again. From having creative/ball striking CMs in Gundogan and KDB, he is opting for ball carriers in Kovacic and Nunes. 

Wonder if its a reflection on the increasing quality of mid/bottom table teams, that are more confident in pressing and pushing higher up the pitch. Rather than needing an array of creative players that counter a low block, he's bringing in transitional players that can dribble out of a press. 

14 hours ago, Niall1905 said:

Wonder if its a reflection on the increasing quality of mid/bottom table teams, that are more confident in pressing and pushing higher up the pitch. Rather than needing an array of creative players that counter a low block, he's bringing in transitional players that can dribble out of a press. 

Probably more of adapting to available player and give his team more variety because it is very difficult to say I want another Gundo. They tried to get Bellingham but he pick Madrid. 

 

Edited August 31, 20232 yr by Bob stark

£150M for Salah rejected.  Wonder if another bid will come in and potentially unhappy player on their hands.  While thats a lot of money, hard to replace those goals and assists.  Gonna grab my popcorn for this one...

My stepdad is a scouser and doesn't seem too phased by the potential departure, although seems to think they would be better off keeping until January. I really think they'd be in big trouble if they become reliant on Jota, Nunez, Diaz and co without someone like Salah in there providing consistency. 

2 hours ago, PhilH930 said:

£150M for Salah rejected.  Wonder if another bid will come in and potentially unhappy player on their hands.  While thats a lot of money, hard to replace those goals and assists.  Gonna grab my popcorn for this one...

and he's being offered tax-free wages of £1.5m per week! it's crazy stuff - head turning stuff why wouldn't Salah want to go