I understand the sentiment on strengthening the team to save the season or adjusting something we need but I don't think we are there yet as a squad or club.

We just replaced the entire team and this was the first season we have a core of sorts. Sadly we had to replace the coach as well which, as we all know, resets things.

It doesn't align with what the club did if we always buy an experienced player to plug a hole for short term. In a couple of years, if the core is improving as it is, we will be in a situation where we will plug a hole in January window if we are fighting for something important or a core player is injured. This is what Liverpool for example does right now.

The young players we are buying Left and Right for the future are probably not all projected to ever be part of the core or even the squad but we can use them as sellable assets. It makes a lot of sense if it works. IF the SD's are good their knowledge and work should be used to this as well on top of the first team squad.

We also can't buy like we did under Roman. World has changed since that.

If you are willing to remember we bought so much unnecessary players under Roman when we tried to plug these holes in the squad. Those days are gone. We need to be smart.

1 hour ago, Wearyourblue said:

I get some of the complaints... but where would we be if we had prime Hazard on this team? We'd be really entertaining and we'd be competing for at least 2nd IMHO. Sure Maresca hasn't been perfect, but we have one player that can create goals on his own (and he's in a slump). Despite all of that we're tied for third in goal differential.

Most fans wouldn't disagree we could use a striker upgrade, a left wing upgrade, a goal keeper upgrade and one center back, yet we're third in GD, he can't be that terrible.

Anyone saying Potter level? we were -9 GD that season, with a much more experienced attacking unit

If we had Prime Hazard in this side he’d of been benched 10 games back for taking his man on and shooting instead of ‘recycling possession’

20 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Given they have played Saints already I doubt Ipswich win another home match.

Imagine If they did the double over us...

Also just a matter of time before we drop out, and stay out of, the top 5.

Imo we finish below Newcastle and Villa. We cannot score goals.

If we actually get CL football, Enzo will just say we can't win it, we're not ready, we're too inexperienced, there's no pressure to get to the knockout phase, etc etc .

1 hour ago, evissy said:

If you are willing to remember we bought so much unnecessary players under Roman when we tried to plug these holes in the squad. Those days are gone. We need to be smart.

We also played football that was enjoyable to watch and only finished outside the top 4 a handful of times in his entire tenure.

2 hours ago, Wearyourblue said:

I get some of the complaints... but where would we be if we had prime Hazard on this team? We'd be really entertaining and we'd be competing for at least 2nd IMHO. Sure Maresca hasn't been perfect, but we have one player that can create goals on his own (and he's in a slump). Despite all of that we're tied for third in goal differential.

Most fans wouldn't disagree we could use a striker upgrade, a left wing upgrade, a goal keeper upgrade and one center back, yet we're third in GD, he can't be that terrible.

Anyone saying Potter level? we were -9 GD that season, with a much more experienced attacking unit

Would not put it past this fool to make even Eden look average. Would probably drop him for not passing sideways enough.

5 hours ago, evissy said:

Comments like this make me feel this place is full of elderly statesmen who can't have anything else than what they had while younger.

What was it about that message that upset you?

5 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Palmer is our Hazard - so saying "if we had prime Hazard ..." doesn't really wash either.

Cmon, you know you can’t be saying stuff like that.

6 hours ago, Wearyourblue said:

I get some of the complaints... but where would we be if we had prime Hazard on this team? We'd be really entertaining and we'd be competing for at least 2nd IMHO. Sure Maresca hasn't been perfect, but we have one player that can create goals on his own (and he's in a slump). Despite all of that we're tied for third in goal differential.

Most fans wouldn't disagree we could use a striker upgrade, a left wing upgrade, a goal keeper upgrade and one center back, yet we're third in GD, he can't be that terrible.

Anyone saying Potter level? we were -9 GD that season, with a much more experienced attacking unit

I don't think so. Hazard in his prime played under Sarri, and that was very similar in style to Maresca's football. That season was incredibly boring to watch, it was literally only Hazard that brought the entertainment. I hated the league games and looked forward to the Europa League more because we were a bit more expressive and we got to watch a young Hudson-Odoi and Loftus-Cheek.

You give examples for why we're not terrible, but all of that was because of the start of the season we had, riding on the wave of positivity that came from the end of the previous season. In the first half of the season, we were mixing it up. We beat Brighton and Newcastle with counter attacking football, then Maresca forced his own style of football onto the team around Christmas time and we fell off.

When I say things are now as bad as it was under Potter, I don't mean the season as whole, I mean since Christams, since Maresca stopped mixing things up. We went from the 2nd best side in the league from game 1-17, to the 13th best side between games 18-31. We've gone from a +18 goal difference between game 1-17 to a -1 goal difference between game 18-31. We're worse than Wolves, Brentford and Everton. We've slumped down to United's level. That's a 14 game slump with only one comfortable win, and that came against Southampton at home. We're struggling against everyone apart from one of the worst Premier League sides ever. Even the last 16 tie of the Conference League was difficult for us.

9 hours ago, evissy said:

I understand the sentiment on strengthening the team to save the season or adjusting something we need but I don't think we are there yet as a squad or club.

We just replaced the entire team and this was the first season we have a core of sorts. Sadly we had to replace the coach as well which, as we all know, resets things.

It doesn't align with what the club did if we always buy an experienced player to plug a hole for short term. In a couple of years, if the core is improving as it is, we will be in a situation where we will plug a hole in January window if we are fighting for something important or a core player is injured. This is what Liverpool for example does right now.

The young players we are buying Left and Right for the future are probably not all projected to ever be part of the core or even the squad but we can use them as sellable assets. It makes a lot of sense if it works. IF the SD's are good their knowledge and work should be used to this as well on top of the first team squad.

We also can't buy like we did under Roman. World has changed since that.

If you are willing to remember we bought so much unnecessary players under Roman when we tried to plug these holes in the squad. Those days are gone. We need to be smart.

I have been a vocal supporter of "the project" since the new owners came in. Was supportive of potter and poch, and only recently turned on maresca. I accept that we can swallow a period of not winning or even being competitive - but with the caveat that we need to see progress on the pitch (in the style and system - not the results) to justify the process.

We are not seeing this progress. We are regressing.

Maresca has failed to improve the style of play. We play so slowly. We are so unadventurous. We are not progressive. We are predictable.

Maresca continues to play to a philosophy that doesn't suit the players at his disposal. When he should be playing a system that gets the best out of the considerable talent he has. Playing it around at the back between the defenders and goalie when those players can't be trusted to do it. Getting it up to the 18 yrd box, only to knock it back to the defenders. the same nonsense over and over again.

Maresca has alienated players - driving them out of the club (in chalobahs case only to then need them back). He has divided the squad. He has failed to get any tune out of Nkunku, madueke, neto, sancho, chukky. He has failed to give any significant game time to Guiu, Josh, george. And when he does make changes, it tends to be a feast or famine, a or b team - which further divides the squad.

I am convinced this isn't a player thing. We have good players. James, caicedo and palmer are all genuine class. Collwill, cucu, enzo, and nkunku are all good. There is a serviceable supporting cast of gusto, chalobah, madueke, neto etc. But no matter who he picks, in whatever formation - the stagnant and stale football remains. That is on him.

He needs to take of the handbrake, let these players develop and learn, and slowly drill in a philosophy that works for the team and the players we have.

1 hour ago, nonotnowjim said:

I have been a vocal supporter of "the project" since the new owners came in. Was supportive of potter and poch, and only recently turned on maresca. I accept that we can swallow a period of not winning or even being competitive - but with the caveat that we need to see progress on the pitch (in the style and system - not the results) to justify the process.

We are not seeing this progress. We are regressing.

Maresca has failed to improve the style of play. We play so slowly. We are so unadventurous. We are not progressive. We are predictable.

Maresca continues to play to a philosophy that doesn't suit the players at his disposal. When he should be playing a system that gets the best out of the considerable talent he has. Playing it around at the back between the defenders and goalie when those players can't be trusted to do it. Getting it up to the 18 yrd box, only to knock it back to the defenders. the same nonsense over and over again.

Maresca has alienated players - driving them out of the club (in chalobahs case only to then need them back). He has divided the squad. He has failed to get any tune out of Nkunku, madueke, neto, sancho, chukky. He has failed to give any significant game time to Guiu, Josh, george. And when he does make changes, it tends to be a feast or famine, a or b team - which further divides the squad.

I am convinced this isn't a player thing. We have good players. James, caicedo and palmer are all genuine class. Collwill, cucu, enzo, and nkunku are all good. There is a serviceable supporting cast of gusto, chalobah, madueke, neto etc. But no matter who he picks, in whatever formation - the stagnant and stale football remains. That is on him.

He needs to take of the handbrake, let these players develop and learn, and slowly drill in a philosophy that works for the team and the players we have.

I agree with this, despite being a supporter of Maresca when he came in. There is no evidence of progress and we are starting to see regression.

He says he is implementing a 'possession approach' to "control" games. We are neither controlling possession nor games, because what we do with the ball is meaningless and lacks any intention. It is slow, predictable and easy for other teams to negate and respond to. This, despite having some of the fastest, most technically-gifted players in the entire league at his disposal.

Maresca was openly critical of Pochettino and previous managers for what he percieved as indisciplined pressing. Fair play to him, he saw an issue. His solution, however, has been to create defenders who are hesitant and incapable of taking initiative. To burden young, inexperienced players with that has made them criminally indecisive. It's the equivalent of a kindergarten teacher teaching algebra and blaming the students for failing, the responsiblity is with the teacher for not addressing the fundamentals.

Look, I am still of the view that Maresca can change things. He absolutely could admit mistakes and in the time we have left, steer the ship in the right direction. However, experience tells us that just isn't going to happen with most modern "systems" managers, especially those from the School of Pep. He has already doubled-down and will likely continue to do so out of ignorance and arrogance. Anyone who seriously believes that football is comparable to chess, in that it is a game that throws up problems with distinct solutions, is never going to be a top class manager and in Maresca's case it's clear he has taken the wrong things away from his time at City. Football is like poker or blackjack, all you can ever do is make a few tweaks and hope to beat the odds.

8 hours ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

What was it about that message that upset you?

Didn't upset me. Just the same sh*te with the same sentiment which this forum is full of. Basically: if it isn't like it was under Roman it is sh*te.

Times have changed, the owner has changed, the plan has changed.

41 minutes ago, evissy said:

Didn't upset me. Just the same sh*te with the same sentiment which this forum is full of. Basically: if it isn't like it was under Roman it is sh*te.

Times have changed, the owner has changed, the plan has changed.

The owners aren’t really the issue here (There’s a whole other thread for that) it’s the manager they’ve appointed and his tedious approach to football.

The whole approach from the Ownership/SD’s seems to be to buy young potential and either groom it into a Winning Core or sell on for FFP purposes (One of footballs worst ever ideas/implementations, but again that’s another topic)

Now that’s all well and good if the Manager you have can get a tune out of these young players and develop them to their full potential. Have you watched the football we play? There is 0 attacking output. We started the season so well due to the effects of Poch, the longer Maresca has spent with this group of players the worse they’ve become individually and the worse we’ve got as a team.

We’re going to go into next season with the likes of Palmer, Estevao & Paez (Unless he’s loaned to Strasbourg) who are some of the worlds most exciting young attackers, I have 0 faith at all that Maresca will look at them and play to their strengths. The system comes above all and unfortunately for us the system is absolutely dire.

The football Rosenior is playing at Strasbourg, McKenna is still persevering with at Ipswich (despite that squads limitations), Raiola (It’s too soon a move for him) at Bournemouth. That is what this squad should be playing like week in week out. Instead we’re rolling out a brand of football that nullifies any of the strengths this squad has for the sake of ‘control’

47 minutes ago, The Boehly Babes said:

The owners aren’t really the issue here (There’s a whole other thread for that) it’s the manager they’ve appointed and his tedious approach to football.

The whole approach from the Ownership/SD’s seems to be to buy young potential and either groom it into a Winning Core or sell on for FFP purposes (One of footballs worst ever ideas/implementations, but again that’s another topic)

Now that’s all well and good if the Manager you have can get a tune out of these young players and develop them to their full potential. Have you watched the football we play? There is 0 attacking output. We started the season so well due to the effects of Poch, the longer Maresca has spent with this group of players the worse they’ve become individually and the worse we’ve got as a team.

We’re going to go into next season with the likes of Palmer, Estevao & Paez (Unless he’s loaned to Strasbourg) who are some of the worlds most exciting young attackers, I have 0 faith at all that Maresca will look at them and play to their strengths. The system comes above all and unfortunately for us the system is absolutely dire.

The football Rosenior is playing at Strasbourg, McKenna is still persevering with at Ipswich (despite that squads limitations), Raiola (It’s too soon a move for him) at Bournemouth. That is what this squad should be playing like week in week out. Instead we’re rolling out a brand of football that nullifies any of the strengths this squad has for the sake of ‘control’

Owners will always be up for criticism and rightly so. To me it is too early to judge them as we are not competing in the highest level of the potential our squad has (on paper anyway).

The approach is also too early to judge. You can naturally judge it by default. In our world: why aren't we buying established players for here and now? I want to win now! But if you are willing to give it time it could work. Patience.

The players being bought and sold for profit is something we probably need to do with revenue-issues. That is a proven method to gain revenue. This again puts a massive trust on the sporting directors. We need a bigger stadium and we need to perform well enough on the pitch as well.

I am not an Enzo fan although I think he's done okay. People are too simplistic on the idea of kicking out Poch who got us 6th to improve so we need to be at least 5th this season. Seasons are not sisters. You can't say Nottingham just will fire at the top or City to collapse. I think the ballpark is fine here. We will end up being around 4-8th I think. That is basically the same as 4-8th last season. Our squad is probably fitting to finish around those places. This is not some videogame as it sometimes felt under Roman.

If we collapse end of the season I think Enzo is under fire but if we manage to get at least 5th I think that is a great achievement for Enzo as well.

Have you actually watched Strasbourg under Rosenior? I have watched two games + a load of highlights and their football is not particularly pretty. I think they are more pragmatic. He's done a great job at there and I don't mind pragmatic approach the least.

He has to be next in line for Chelsea job if Enzo fails and the club stopped believing in him. But I don't admit knowing Roseniors philosophy or style apart from what I've seen. If he took Chelsea job he'd probably assess the squad.

2 hours ago, evissy said:

Didn't upset me. Just the same sh*te with the same sentiment which this forum is full of. Basically: if it isn't like it was under Roman it is sh*te.

Times have changed, the owner has changed, the plan has changed.

It is sh*te.

Keep burying your head in the sand though. No ones saying we won't be successful in a few years but it won't be with Maresca and no serious owners would throw away 5 years for such a risk.

7 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

It's really not difficult. You don't tell a group of young players that are playing the best they have played in their career to date that they are not yet good enough. Do you really think Nuno Espirito Santo is going up to his Forest players saying they're not good enough to get into the Champions League? This same Nottingham Forest that finished 17th last season and were expected to be in a relegation fight this season? Just look at the reaction from Forest players after their loss to Villa, none of this "we're not ready yet" they are saying they were disappointed with their first half performance and could have done better. After Maresca's comments about us not being ready yet, we had Palmer repeating the same thing when asked about it in an interview, this same Palmer that was the most exciting player to watch in the league that nobody could shut up about. Very soon after that, Palmer's form massively dips, along with everybody else in the team, and we haven't recovered since.

Football is a very momentum based sport. You don't just say they're not ready now, but will be in a few years, when does football ever work like that? You seize the opportunity now, you can't gamble on everything falling into place 3 years from now. Also, nobody said anything about Chelsea winning right now, I think the fans would settle for football that looks like it's taking us in the right direction more than anything. Why is it such a big ask for this team to at least produce a few performances on par with what we were seeing in October, November and most of December? When is the next truly good performance going to appear? we are approaching 20 games since the form began to dip, and not a single one of those performances has been anywhere near the standard we were seeing before Christmas. We also are showing zero signs of that changing.

It's the defeatist attitude, that's what this is. Can you imagine prime Mourinho or Conte accepting mediocrity and "we're not ready " approach? Winners don't act that way. It's the coward's way to hide behind excuses and promises that things will get better with time. It's the ultimate 'get out of jail' card that allows you to keep failing and not being held accountable because there's always 'we're not ready, just be patient' explanation for yet another season of getting nowhere fast.

3 hours ago, evissy said:

Didn't upset me. Just the same sh*te with the same sentiment which this forum is full of. Basically: if it isn't like it was under Roman it is sh*te.

Times have changed, the owner has changed, the plan has changed.

This is an abusrud take... and sadly in keeping with many of your posts. Its just blind to the realities of where the club currently is under the current manager.

I don't care about the plan, I didnt under Roman, I didn't under Bates either. they sold success to achieve it whether we got it or not. I remember the FA cups like it was the champions league and the joy of them and seeing lebeouf and wise et all on the bus parade... great days. If it werent for Roman the Eurobond loan would have wound us up as a club, the british government tried to wind us up forcing Roman out and rest assured the yank twat financiers in charge putting profit above all else are trying to extract every penny of revenue out the club. It is what they do. These owners are tryingf to find a way to sell the ground and move us elsewhere, they bought the club for the property value, not the club.. That is my honest belief, i'll never trust them. Ever.

Honestly, the Yank model isnt so different to Romans. He invested in Cobham, youth teams and sold them to fund player purchases, he also created the loan army that also funded the first team when players didnt settle or were deemed not good enough.

The Yanks put the club in debt. 1.5 billion to be precise. We have a lot of supposedly very gifted youngsters and I dont doubt the talent, most young players now all have very similiar skillsets, its how they develop physically and how they play.

Like many on here, Im seeing regression under Maresca. For all Poch's faults, he had us playing a football that was more entertaining. Painful loses but very enjoyable results too. If Maresca is here next season, I wont be because there is nothing entertaining about watching his style of football. It is frankly... sh*t... If im paying 100+ for 90 mins, I want genuine entertainment but i reckon I'll get more enjoyment going to a funeral home and watching workers emablm bodies and I probably wont have to pay for it. For example, anyone who keeps picking Sanchez at this point is either mentally ill or under influence.

Palmer has gone from genuinely world class carefree attacker into a guy who looks like he is carrying the entire club and not enjoying himself, I dont expect him to be hear next season and we'll see him agitate for a move away.

Maresca has genuinely very decent players at his disposal yet his system renders them useless.

Maresca's tactics are attrocious. literally the worst football the bridge has seen in decades. I hope he is reading this forum and does us all a favour and leaves in the summer accepting his tactics are already out of date or comits hari kari on the stamford bridge pitch next home game. Ive been told he's a lovely family man, so alternative to harm, I wish him a long happy life being around them 24/7 and not near this squad most of the week.

Back the owners, the process or model or whatever it is that you're still clinging too becuase we are simply where we are in the league because it is so poor this year.

Liverpool are where they are becasue of Salah and Klopps team, City have fallen off a cliff and Fulham are on our coat tails. From 2nd at xmas to struggling to maintain top four.

Jose will be available in the summer, a winner... a man who still entertains and would get this lot into shape. I'd have him back in a heartbeat right now and his tactics are old and tired but nothing as rubbish as Maresca.

Stop underpinning your entire defense of the current twats in charge on framing us as Roman fan boys, he's gone, never coming back, but it doesnt mean the new ones and what theyre promising is any different from the past owners. SSDD...

Thank youl.

1 hour ago, evissy said:

Have you actually watched Strasbourg under Rosenior? I have watched two games + a load of highlights and their football is not particularly pretty. I think they are more pragmatic. He's done a great job at there and I don't mind pragmatic approach the least.

He has to be next in line for Chelsea job if Enzo fails and the club stopped believing in him. But I don't admit knowing Roseniors philosophy or style apart from what I've seen. If he took Chelsea job he'd probably assess the squad.

Funnily enough... if you hadn't seen it...

BBC Sport

'BlueCo out' - Strasbourg fans protest against Chelsea's...

French Ligue 1 side Strasbourg endures fan tension over the perceived 'betrayal' of the club's sale to Chelsea owners BlueCo.

1 hour ago, evissy said:

Have you actually watched Strasbourg under Rosenior? I have watched two games + a load of highlights and their football is not particularly pretty. I think they are more pragmatic. He's done a great job at there and I don't mind pragmatic approach the least.

He has to be next in line for Chelsea job if Enzo fails and the club stopped believing in him. But I don't admit knowing Roseniors philosophy or style apart from what I've seen. If he took Chelsea job he'd probably assess the squad.

Rosenior’s football at Derby, with the squad they had, was some of the most entertaining in the league and their fans were gutted to see him go.

He took the same approach at Hull and was unfortunate to miss out on Play Offs and wrongly sacked.

Again at Strasbourg it’s the same style, a high pressure press and then exploit the gaps created. Yes, you don’t have the possession stats or ‘control’ you do in a team set upto recycle possession but you get faster more attacking football, which I personally believe with the players we have is a lot more suited. He’s more akin to early Klopp than Pep in his approach and it’s something I’m all for.

27 minutes ago, abramovich said:

It's the defeatist attitude, that's what this is. Can you imagine prime Mourinho or Conte accepting mediocrity and "we're not ready " approach? Winners don't act that way. It's the coward's way to hide behind excuses and promises that things will get better with time. It's the ultimate 'get out of jail' card that allows you to keep failing and not being held accountable because there's always 'we're not ready, just be patient' explanation for yet another season of getting nowhere fast.

And that's why Conte or prime Mourinho would never be looked at by this board, that's why they got rid of Tuchel as soon as they could.

48 minutes ago, The Boehly Babes said:

Rosenior’s football at Derby, with the squad they had, was some of the most entertaining in the league and their fans were gutted to see him go.

He took the same approach at Hull and was unfortunate to miss out on Play Offs and wrongly sacked.

Again at Strasbourg it’s the same style, a high pressure press and then exploit the gaps created. Yes, you don’t have the possession stats or ‘control’ you do in a team set upto recycle possession but you get faster more attacking football, which I personally believe with the players we have is a lot more suited. He’s more akin to early Klopp than Pep in his approach and it’s something I’m all for.

Let’s not forget that same Hull he took within an inch of play offs are now battling relegation without him…

No style though, I’d much rather see him gather 70% possession than get results.

I've never been a fan of possession football. Defending with the ball. But at the same time everyone needs to pull in the same direction inside the club. Whatever the style is everyone needs to back it. I feel Enzo and players are okay with each other.

I think Enzo tried to change the style to a more balanced one after Pochettino -football that worked in terms of results early on. Now Enzo 8 for example is much more at home as we are not playing gung-ho football and we are keeping clean sheets. Hopefully this is just part of the process for the players to learn to be potent in attack and understand the balance side of the game. I also understand Enzo puts himself at risk with this but it is admirable and if it starts working it could be a basis for something much better in the future. Hopefully the club directors are also aware that they are doing so. This way Enzo has the trust to work and players know what they need to do.

If Palmer/others scored as they did early on we'd be much more at ease in games and it doesn't look like it looks right now.

Anyway time will tell.

Winning the CL will be a curse because it guarantees this inept manager for another two seasons.

They will say the project is working and point to Arsenal.

Unless we are in a relegation battle he is not going anywhere.

37 minutes ago, El regreso said:

Winning the CL will be a curse because it guarantees this inept manager for another two seasons.

They will say the project is working and point to Arsenal.

Unless we are in a relegation battle he is not going anywhere.

As much as Arteta irritates me, I have to sadly admit he is 100 x the coach Maresca is. Bloody depressing.

19 hours ago, evissy said:

We also can't buy like we did under Roman. World has changed since that.

If you are willing to remember we bought so much unnecessary players under Roman when we tried to plug these holes in the squad. Those days are gone. We need to be smart.

Do the names Joao Felix, Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall, David Datro Fofana, Deivid Washington, Omari Kellyman, Filip Jorgensen, Caleb Wiley, Aaron Anselmino, Lesley Ugochukwu, Mathis Amougou and Renato Veiga ring bell?

We're buying way more than we did under Roman, with nothing to show for it.