31 minutes ago, Llangennech said:

Does it? Graf - laaaf. Do some people say graaaf, like some say Baaaath?

And some say graaaf, while others say what a load of old LlanLlangennLlanLlangennech bollox.

3 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

No I'm not.

I love the Premier League personally. It's by far the best league in the world in terms of entertainment and I would never want us to turn our backs on it. Tradition and history plays a massive part too. We have been part of the English football pyramid since we were founded. We don't get to decide we are now better than that because a European Super League comes along and offers more money.

Also, we already have a European Super League in the form of the Champions League. I would prefer 2 leagues of 16 rather than their one 32 league system though.

When it comes to having too many games, it feels that way because so many competitions keep getting expanded and international football constantly breaks up the football schedule. The European Championships should be cut back down to 16 teams. The absurd World Cup of 48 teams should be immediately scrapped and shrunk back down to 32. The Nations League should be thrown out. Every International game should be played at the end of the season to avoid breaking up club football for 3 weeks multiple times per season.

There's a way to fit an entire club football season between September and May if they did this. Then they can play every International game (euro qualifiers/euro championships/world cup qualifiers/world cup) from the start of June to the end of June. Every team then gets the entirety of July off before pre season starts again in August.

The PL is not by far the best league in the world. Granted it's the most competitive. Look at the top top players who have never played in the PL, and other top top players who only played for a short time in the PL.

Also it's nothing to do with money for me, it's the right thing to do for football fans around the world.

I agree that the Nations League should be scrapped and the Euros should be a 16 team tournament.

9 minutes ago, just said:

And some say graaaf, while others say what a load of old LlanLlangennLlanLlangennech bollox.

Uh?

20 minutes ago, Llangennech said:

Also it's nothing to do with money for me, it's the right thing to do for football fans around the world..

In what way, the SL was a money grab by the top clubs, it was another attempt to close the doors and keep the big boys big, stop any chance of them ever being usurped. There's a reason the vast majority of fans turned in it instantly, it was a disgusting attempt at a coup.

19 minutes ago, Llangennech said:

The PL is not by far the best league in the world. Granted it's the most competitive. Look at the top top players who have never played in the PL, and other top top players who only played for a short time in the PL.

Also it's nothing to do with money for me, it's the right thing to do for football fans around the world.

I agree that the Nations League should be scrapped and the Euros should be a 16 team tournament.

It is the best league though. More entertaining, more intense and most watched league around the world. As for the top players argument, the Premier League has plenty of those players. For example, the best player in the Premier League right now is Salah, he is better than anything in Spain, Italy or Germany. Hazard in his prime only had Messi and Ronaldo in front of him in the entire world. United and Tottenham finished near the bottom of the table of the Premier League, yet they both played in the Europa League final. We've had Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes, De Bruyne, D.Silva, Fabregas, Makelele, Vieira, Kante, Toure, Ballack, these names are as good if not better than a lot of the names you could pick out of Spain, Italy or Germany. Drogba, Henry, Bergkamp, Kane, Cantona Shearer, Rooney, Tevez, Aguero, Torres, Van Persie, Haaland some of the best strikers of their era. I would argue that no CB was better than Terry in his prime.

Football is doing fine as it is, I don't know how you can say such a drastic change would be the right thing to do for football fans around the world. Also, it may not be about the money for you, but the likes of Real Madrid, one of the clubs pushing for this the most, that is all it's about. They want that Premier League money too, this is their way of getting that.

14 minutes ago, dkw said:

In what way, the SL was a money grab by the top clubs, it was another attempt to close the doors and keep the big boys big, stop any chance of them ever being usurped. There's a reason the vast majority of fans turned in it instantly, it was a disgusting attempt at a coup.

10 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

It is the best league though. More entertaining, more intense and most watched league around the world. As for the top players argument, the Premier League has plenty of those players. For example, the best player in the Premier League right now is Salah, he is better than anything in Spain, Italy or Germany. Hazard in his prime only had Messi and Ronaldo in front of him in the entire world. United and Tottenham finished near the bottom of the table of the Premier League, yet they both played in the Europa League final. We've had Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes, De Bruyne, D.Silva, Fabregas, Makelele, Vieira, Kante, Toure, Ballack, these names are as good if not better than a lot of the names you could pick out of Spain, Italy or Germany. Drogba, Henry, Bergkamp, Kane, Cantona Shearer, Rooney, Tevez, Aguero, Torres, Van Persie, Haaland some of the best strikers of their era. I would argue that no CB was better than Terry in his prime.

Football is doing fine as it is, I don't know how you can say such a drastic change would be the right thing to do for football fans around the world. Also, it may not be about the money for you, but the likes of Real Madrid, one of the clubs pushing for this the most, that is all it's about. They want that Premier League money too, this is their way of getting that.

Entertainment is a matter of opinion. Bale, Benzema, CR7 and Suarez, Messi, Neymar are better front threes than any front three in PL history. Henry played some top stuff in Spain. Modric and Bale played most of their best football in Spain. Terry, obviously one of the best defenders in history, IMO Cannavaro was better, I'd certainly prefer to watch Cannavarro play. What about P Maldini and F Baresi. There was never talk about Maradona coming here in 1992, yes, what happened in 1982 is obviously the reason why and maybe 1986, that was Shilton's fault though. Buffon, Donnarumma, Neuer, Kahn, Oblak nor Casillas have ever kept goal in the PL. Courtois has played far more matches outside of England. I'd have Mbappe and Vivicius jnr in my side before Salah.

What about Cafu, R Carlos, Lizarazu and P Lahm? What about the players who were mainly responsible for taking teams to the final of World Cups? How many were playing in the PL? The Spain side of 2010, that fantastic Barca midfield. I would say that the majority of the best of the best have played their football outside of the PL.

An ESL would help Barca more than Madrid, granted it would help the short to medium financial stability of the big clubs in southern Europe, so you admit that it's the greed, selfishness and small mindedness of people living in and close to London and Manchester that is stopping an ESL from happening? I voted Remain. Did you?

2 minutes ago, Llangennech said:

Entertainment is a matter of opinion. Bale, Benzema, CR7 and Suarez, Messi, Neymar are better front threes than any front three in PL history. Henry played some top stuff in Spain. Modric and Bale played most of their best football in Spain. Terry, obviously one of the best defenders in history, IMO Cannavaro was better, I'd certainly prefer to watch Cannavarro play. What about P Maldini and F Baresi. There was never talk about Maradona coming here in 1992, yes, what happened in 1982 is obviously the reason why and maybe 1986, that was Shilton's fault though. Buffon, Donnarumma, Neuer, Kahn, Oblak nor Casillas have ever kept goal in the PL. Courtois has played far more matches outside of England. I'd have Mbappe and Vivicius jnr in my side before Salah.

What about Cafu, R Carlos, Lizarazu and P Lahm? What about the players who were mainly responsible for taking teams to the final of World Cups? How many were playing in the PL? The Spain side of 2010, that fantastic Barca midfield. I would say that the majority of the best of the best have played their football outside of the PL.

An ESL would help Barca more than Madrid, granted it would help the short to medium financial stability of the big clubs in southern Europe, so you admit that it's the greed, selfishness and small mindedness of people living in and close to London and Manchester that is stopping an ESL from happening? I voted Remain. Did you?

Ronaldo, Tevez and Rooney is no worse than Bale, Benzema and Ronaldo.

Henry played good in Spain, but in England he was on a completely different level. Bale was largely frutstrating in Spain. Good in the big games, but a lot of the Real Madrid fans found him frustrating. He was a lot more consistent in England. Terry of his generation, I personally thought was better than any CB in the game. Better than Cannavaro and Nesta in my opinion. Better than Ramos, who was a big game player, but picked up a ridiculous amount of red cards and really wasn't that great until he was surrounded by better players. As for goalkeepers, I mean, any name you throw out there, I can do the same. Cech was better than all of the keepers on that list. Van Der Sar, Schmeichel, Alisson, they're no worse than those players either.

At this point, we're talking about fine margins. My main point was that the best that have played in England are barely any better or worse than what you see in other countries. So when margins are that fine, you look at other things, competitiveness, intensity, which for the most part, the Premier League wins hands down.

I disagree entirely with your final point. It's not selfishness or greed that is stopping the Super League, it's love for the game in this country and not wanting to ruin it by breaking it apart and taking the biggest names out of it. The other countries wouldn't even be pushing for the Super League if their leagues were marketed better. Also, again, we already have a Super League, it's called the Champions League.

9 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Ronaldo, Tevez and Rooney is no worse than Bale, Benzema and Ronaldo.

Henry played good in Spain, but in England he was on a completely different level. Bale was largely frutstrating in Spain. Good in the big games, but a lot of the Real Madrid fans found him frustrating. He was a lot more consistent in England. Terry of his generation, I personally thought was better than any CB in the game. Better than Cannavaro and Nesta in my opinion. Better than Ramos, who was a big game player, but picked up a ridiculous amount of red cards and really wasn't that great until he was surrounded by better players. As for goalkeepers, I mean, any name you throw out there, I can do the same. Cech was better than all of the keepers on that list. Van Der Sar, Schmeichel, Alisson, they're no worse than those players either.

At this point, we're talking about fine margins. My main point was that the best that have played in England are barely any better or worse than what you see in other countries. So when margins are that fine, you look at other things, competitiveness, intensity, which for the most part, the Premier League wins hands down.

I disagree entirely with your final point. It's not selfishness or greed that is stopping the Super League, it's love for the game in this country and not wanting to ruin it by breaking it apart and taking the biggest names out of it. The other countries wouldn't even be pushing for the Super League if their leagues were marketed better. Also, again, we already have a Super League, it's called the Champions League.

Intensity? What does that mean in football, intensity is a word you use when talking about rugby league.

What I dislike about the PL is the way it's refereed, defenders get away with far too much, the skillful players aren't protected enough.

Re. Bale, Benzema and Ronaldo not being better than Rooney, Tevez and Ronaldo, just look at the Champions League wins.

Big matches are the only ones that really really matter.

Has there been a global vote whether fans want an ESL?

Bale only cheesed off the Madrid fans towards the end, as he was protecting his dodgy calf for Wales matches, F Perez gave a donation to Welsh football to help in the fight against rugby union, that donation being Bale's ridiculous contract extension.

2 hours ago, Llangennech said:

Intensity? What does that mean in football, intensity is a word you use when talking about rugby league.

What I dislike about the PL is the way it's refereed, defenders get away with far too much, the skillful players aren't protected enough.

Re. Bale, Benzema and Ronaldo not being better than Rooney, Tevez and Ronaldo, just look at the Champions League wins.

Big matches are the only ones that really really matter.

Has there been a global vote whether fans want an ESL?

Bale only cheesed off the Madrid fans towards the end, as he was protecting his dodgy calf for Wales matches, F Perez gave a donation to Welsh football to help in the fight against rugby union, that donation being Bale's ridiculous contract extension.

Don't think they did, but as a Brazilian Chelsea supporter I absolutely loathe the idea of the ESL and would hate to be deprived of watching Chelsea fight 19 other english sides to become the top dog of its nation and THEN being awarded the chance to fight for the crown of best in Europe/World.

And as far as I remember most in here were also against it, be it english, dutch, american etc.

If you’re pro-ESL then you’re anti-football.

The English football pyramid is the greatest in the world and no other country comes close. Spain have a couple of good teams but the league is absolutely sh*te. There’s a reason the premier league demands the money that it does. Nothing comes close and the ESL was only pushed by the likes of Madrid and Barca in an attempt to keep up financially.

The season hasn’t even started yet and I’m already irritated.

🚨 Maresca: “We need to see the impact of this competition. Our rivals are on holiday, we are here. It's a new competition. We will see how it affects our season..” (@JacobsBen) #CFC

I was watching a video yesterday of all of Lampards best moments. Maresca would have binned him off if he'd been here. Far too many forward passes, long passes, shots from outside the box. Doesn't fit into the slow build-up play model.

Football is supposed to be entertaining. You're supposed to go forward and try to win the game. You want players to try things, to use their talent. This football he plays is not football that I want to watch, and I'm sure it's not football a lot of talented players will really want to play for very long.

On 16/06/2025 at 07:23, Ukraine Bolt said:

If you’re pro-ESL then you’re anti-football.

The English football pyramid is the greatest in the world and no other country comes close. Spain have a couple of good teams but the league is absolutely sh*te. There’s a reason the premier league demands the money that it does. Nothing comes close and the ESL was only pushed by the likes of Madrid and Barca in an attempt to keep up financially.

Don't forget though that PL clubs signed up to play in the ESL, including us ..

25 minutes ago, Zeta said:

I was watching a video yesterday of all of Lampards best moments. Maresca would have binned him off if he'd been here. Far too many forward passes, long passes, shots from outside the box. Doesn't fit into the slow build-up play model.

Football is supposed to be entertaining. You're supposed to go forward and try to win the game. You want players to try things, to use their talent. This football he plays is not football that I want to watch, and I'm sure it's not football a lot of talented players will really want to play for very long.

I thought Chelsea is about winning. So which is it? Our football under Jose and let's say in the Champions League 2012 was far far away from being evertaining and yet we talk about those times as the best times.

If you can remember the times with Jose for example the narrative was we are too defensive, Roman wants to play Tiki Taka and so on.

The matter of entertainment naturally is subjective.

Yesterdays game against LA to me was a professional showing and a bit rusty. We did the job and kept LA away from dangerous areas. I felt if La scored we'd find a way to win it anyway.

I agree we are not raising people from their seats but we are not sacrificing the results either.

The football we play is far from finished but the corners of the style start to show. If you score 5 and play like we did I think no one can criticize the style.

21 minutes ago, The Rising Sun said:

Don't forget though that PL clubs signed up to play in the ESL, including us ..

And our fans were the first to protest and pull out of it

1 minute ago, evissy said:

I thought Chelsea is about winning. So which is it? Our football under Jose and let's say in the Champions League 2012 was far far away from being evertaining and yet we talk about those times as the best times.

If you can remember the times with Jose for example the narrative was we are too defensive, Roman wants to play Tiki Taka and so on.

The matter of entertainment naturally is subjective.

Yesterdays game against LA to me was a professional showing and a bit rusty. We did the job and kept LA away from dangerous areas. I felt if La scored we'd find a way to win it anyway.

I agree we are not raising people from their seats but we are not sacrificing the results either.

The football we play is far from finished but the corners of the style start to show. If you score 5 and play like we did I think no one can criticize the style.

Can people stop saying football under Jose was boring its the laziest rhetoric I've heard and its a complete lie. Not only were we winning the league with a record fewest goals against we were also scoring more than Maresca's Chelsea. That team was electric on the break and got you out of your seat with excitement.

4 minutes ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

Can people stop saying football under Jose was boring its the laziest rhetoric I've heard and its a complete lie. Not only were we winning the league with a record fewest goals against we were also scoring more than Maresca's Chelsea. That team was electric on the break and got you out of your seat with excitement.

It is context. Which to me fits perfectly here. You don't agree, fine.

The times were different as well. Football has changed, competition is on a different level and so on.

That team was a brilliant counter attacking side which still raised the talks Roman wanting to play Tiki Taka and many fans if I remember correctly felt the same way. We kicked out Jose and Carlo out when the team was still on top, Roman wanted more or something different. Those were the days people here always come back to when talking about the expectations for the club being all time low when we only want to finish fourth...

Anyway I think I got my point across about the style and it being subjective.

I posted this before and will continue to do so:

There is no version of Maresca football that gets us a PL or CL title, none. It won’t even get us a League or FA cup.

This boring pass pass pass nonsense is beyond stupid now. We have young dynamic players but we limit their qualities because of his stupid ideological football.

1 hour ago, evissy said:

I thought Chelsea is about winning. So which is it? Our football under Jose and let's say in the Champions League 2012 was far far away from being evertaining and yet we talk about those times as the best times.

If you can remember the times with Jose for example the narrative was we are too defensive, Roman wants to play Tiki Taka and so on.

The matter of entertainment naturally is subjective.

Yesterdays game against LA to me was a professional showing and a bit rusty. We did the job and kept LA away from dangerous areas. I felt if La scored we'd find a way to win it anyway.

I agree we are not raising people from their seats but we are not sacrificing the results either.

The football we play is far from finished but the corners of the style start to show. If you score 5 and play like we did I think no one can criticize the style.

Of course everyone wants to win. Every supporter of every club wants to win. But winning isn't what makes me watch Chelsea games in the long run. I, and most of us would still be here watching if we were a smaller club and not competing for anything. We still watch when we are on barren spells of winning nothing, because the football club is part of our identity, and our community. We watch in the hope that we'll win, sure, but if the football we are playing is boring people to tears, they won't keep watching forever. Even under Sarriball I didn't feel this bored and uninterested in our games. This is the first season basically in my whole adult life where I've chosen not to watch games and to do something else, because i'm so bored watching us. But I'm still here, because as I said, it's part of me. Same as most others here.. End of the day, whether we win or lose, there has to be some level of entertainment, or people will switch off. And yes, you can argue it's hypocritical that people want both, they want entertainment and they want to win and "which is it?". Well, yeah. We're human beings. We're hardly perfect, are we? Of course we want it all.

11 hours ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

Can people stop saying football under Jose was boring its the laziest rhetoric I've heard and its a complete lie. Not only were we winning the league with a record fewest goals against we were also scoring more than Maresca's Chelsea. That team was electric on the break and got you out of your seat with excitement.

Even when he parked the bus against Liverpool in the game that Gerrard slipped, I loved it. Defenders giving absolutely everything to stop them winning, trying to make the most of a few breakaways. It was tense, but exciting at the same time. Winning that game was one of my favourite wins ever outside of our cup wins. Tomas Kalas only played 4 games for us, I will remember him for that one performance on it's own than the majority of BlueCo's players.

I don't feel tense or excitement watching Maresca's brand of football. I go through a range of emotions. First it's annoyance at his team selections, then it's boredom as I watch us attempt to the play recycled keep ball that we are atrocious at, then it turns into frustration when it goes on and on and on and nothing changes. Then I get angry because we have been put through 90+ minutes of the same tedious sh*t once again.

Assuming we get the players we're after in the transfer window, Maresca has no excuse next season, it's a title challenge or bust. I'm not a fan of Enzo's and I think he should have been gone last season but we're stuck with him, I can only hope that with better attacking and defensive options the football will be less boring, but I wouldn't bank on it.

9 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

Even when he parked the bus against Liverpool in the game that Gerrard slipped, I loved it. Defenders giving absolutely everything to stop them winning, trying to make the most of a few breakaways. It was tense, but exciting at the same time. Winning that game was one of my favourite wins ever outside of our cup wins. Tomas Kalas only played 4 games for us, I will remember him for that one performance on it's own than the majority of BlueCo's players.

I don't feel tense or excitement watching Maresca's brand of football. I go through a range of emotions. First it's annoyance at his team selections, then it's boredom as I watch us attempt to the play recycled keep ball that we are atrocious at, then it turns into frustration when it goes on and on and on and nothing changes. Then I get angry because we have been put through 90+ minutes of the same tedious sh*t once again.

Done in smilies for you, copy and paste this into every match day thread...

🤔😴😒😡

In fact can we have this as a single smilie choice, save us messing around every game...

Edited June 18, 20251 yr by dkw

10 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

Even when he parked the bus against Liverpool in the game that Gerrard slipped, I loved it. Defenders giving absolutely everything to stop them winning, trying to make the most of a few breakaways. It was tense, but exciting at the same time. Winning that game was one of my favourite wins ever outside of our cup wins. Tomas Kalas only played 4 games for us, I will remember him for that one performance on it's own than the majority of BlueCo's players.

I don't feel tense or excitement watching Maresca's brand of football. I go through a range of emotions. First it's annoyance at his team selections, then it's boredom as I watch us attempt to the play recycled keep ball that we are atrocious at, then it turns into frustration when it goes on and on and on and nothing changes. Then I get angry because we have been put through 90+ minutes of the same tedious sh*t once again.

On the defending thing, I hate that it now is looked upon as some kind of cowardly thing in football, the snearing when a team is defensively excellent, wins a game against better opposition due to a superb defensive structure etc.

Its 50% of a game of football, or at least it used to be, its now so diluted as a skill that tackling is almost dead as a skill. That game V liverpool was just an incredible management effort, to create a build with such a mix of players, so many missing etc, it was an absolute masterclass by Jose.

2 hours ago, dkw said:

On the defending thing, I hate that it now is looked upon as some kind of cowardly thing in football, the snearing when a team is defensively excellent, wins a game against better opposition due to a superb defensive structure etc.

Its 50% of a game of football, or at least it used to be, its now so diluted as a skill that tackling is almost dead as a skill. That game V liverpool was just an incredible management effort, to create a build with such a mix of players, so many missing etc, it was an absolute masterclass by Jose.

I have always loved when the players we use play with their personalities and that forms the team and its performance.

From this team Enzo, Palmer and Cucurella do so. Everyone of them are like they are as their player profile and personality so to say.

I have always hated over-controlling coaches such as Pep although I can admit he is probably the best coach of last 10 years. He has actually molded the football to a certain state. Not all good. His teams are sort of army-like and they look like autocrat of the team, which in essence he is.

For die Mannschaft that style works. They have made art of it last 30 years. Of being united and one minded on the 'team comes first' mentality. That is basically their identity no matter if the formation or the balance have changed over the years. Same goes with Italy and their identity.

I don't mind deep sitting teams if that is their essence. I don't mind defensive football nor 0-0 games. I have seen some amazing games that have zero goals. Usually when the stakes are high. Boring 0-0 is just boring.

There are things in this Enzo's style that are clear. We've been through them. I think if we'd score with better percentages and are a bit more brave in the key areas of our football I think we can win a lot of games. He's brought balance to the side after Poch. It is not working probably like he wants but win first - hone the style, tweak the team second I would say is the way he sees it.

To be honest, the first half of the season it was obvious Maresca can play exciting football, but we were shipping too many goals. He seemingly changed that, so it became almost the opposite of that. I think it's trying to find that sweet spot. But then again, Italian managers aren't particularly well known for the most exciting styles of play. It is interesting how Maresca and Arteta (both Pep's understudies) have demonstrated different styles, but ultimately have ended up settling on more defensive, less exciting styles. Even Pep has been accused of being boring, even if consistent. Although to be fair, he's been at City for a long time, and he always had top talent at his disposal in the PL.