3 hours ago, Jangz said:

So good enough for Barca not for us. Ok understood.

Im trying to think about players who have turned us down for one of either Barca or Real Madrid... so, using your logic, Eden Hazard wasnt good enough to play for us anymore but good enough for Real madrid? OK Understood. What player turns down a move to the big two in Spain?

37 League goals across six seasons in the premiership for Pedro.

30 League goals across two seasons in the premiership for Jackson (much maligned and started career as a winger)

Do I want either leading the line next season for us, no but doubt we'll sign anyone.

I do wonder what you all sprinkle on your cereals in the mornings sometimes.

6 hours ago, bluelightening said:

Im trying to think about players who have turned us down for one of either Barca or Real Madrid... so, using your logic, Eden Hazard wasnt good enough to play for us anymore but good enough for Real madrid? OK Understood. What player turns down a move to the big two in Spain?

37 League goals across six seasons in the premiership for Pedro.

30 League goals across two seasons in the premiership for Jackson (much maligned and started career as a winger)

Do I want either leading the line next season for us, no but doubt we'll sign anyone.

I do wonder what you all sprinkle on your cereals in the mornings sometimes.

I think you should be careful on forum lest people figure out how crazy smart you are .. the argument is that a player is being courted by Barca to start and replace Lewa but is not good enough for us. how is the Eden example relevant the only example would be is there was a Barca or Madrid starter who was a sub here..

besides the only season that he has been here jao has out scored Jackson in a struggling team. Are there better strikers than Jao yes but then you are talking of a handful that we will never get like the Haalands of the world but they ain’t coming here. Jao is the best we can get so you trying to diss on the only quality attacker we have …

your confidence actually indicates that you suffer from Dunning-Kruger effect.

10 minutes ago, Jangz said:

I think you should be careful on forum lest people figure out how crazy smart you are .. the argument is that a player is being courted by Barca to start and replace Lewa but is not good enough for us. how is the Eden example relevant the only example would be is there was a Barca or Madrid starter who was a sub here..

besides the only season that he has been here jao has out scored Jackson in a struggling team. Are there better strikers than Jao yes but then you are talking of a handful that we will never get like the Haalands of the world but they ain’t coming here. Jao is the best we can get so you trying to diss on the only quality attacker we have …

your confidence actually indicates that you suffer from Dunning-Kruger effect.

Totally.

The market for wingers and center forwards that are actually available is terrible. Add to that the fact we are not even in a European competition and it puts us in the worst position to negociate with anybody of truly world class value.

We're lucky to have Joao Pedro in such an important moment. World class in the Haaland, Mbappe, Kane tier of strikers? No. But surely on par with all the others who are valued very high.

Anyone judging Joao Pedro or any other striker after he spent most of the season being coached by Enzo Maresca is doing so in bad faith. Maresca used his strikers as decoys, to the extent that Pedro may as well have been playing as a no. 8.

5 hours ago, Jangz said:

I think you should be careful on forum lest people figure out how crazy smart you are .. the argument is that a player is being courted by Barca to start and replace Lewa but is not good enough for us. how is the Eden example relevant the only example would be is there was a Barca or Madrid starter who was a sub here..

besides the only season that he has been here jao has out scored Jackson in a struggling team. Are there better strikers than Jao yes but then you are talking of a handful that we will never get like the Haalands of the world but they ain’t coming here. Jao is the best we can get so you trying to diss on the only quality attacker we have …

your confidence actually indicates that you suffer from Dunning-Kruger effect.

Cool, I'll leave you, presumably, a non-medical professional to diagnose my psychology... talk about confidence huh?

So, Is Gordon good enough for us. I dont think he is, look where Newcastle finished this season and his 6 league goals. I'd be upset if we had made a move for him given his numbers, he has pedro neto numbers and is simalrly priced.

Play the ball not the man.

6 seasons in the premiership and 7 goals more than Jackson. 1 goal more than Jackson's first season haul for us. I would say in terms of output, there is nothing between them. Any club with Maresca in charge is going to struggle. Reckon both will be here starting for us under Alonso and it's going to cost us points.

The point about Eden Hazard is that he choose Real Madrid over his home with us. That was his personal ambition, to play for Real under Zidane. So by your logic he was no longer good enough for us and wanted to test his ability at Real. Sounds like Gordon tbh, he even speaks Spanish from a clip i saw of him. You know as well as I no player turns down either Barcelona or Real Madrid.

Good luck with your A-Level psychology course.

Edited June 2Jun 2 by bluelightening

5 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

Anyone judging Joao Pedro or any other striker after he spent most of the season being coached by Enzo Maresca is doing so in bad faith. Maresca used his strikers as decoys, to the extent that Pedro may as well have been playing as a no. 8.

Is this the same for all players in our squad? Do you say this about Jackson as well or Delap?

We are very lucky to have J.Pedro, i hope the club keeps him this summer and his head isn't turned by the Spanish giants.

20 G/A in 35 league games without any penalties and the team in such abysmal form.

Can't think of many strikers on the market today i'd take over him and what he can bring to the overall game with his ability and link up play.

5 hours ago, bluelightening said:

Cool, I'll leave you, presumably, a non-medical professional to diagnose my psychology... talk about confidence huh?

So, Is Gordon good enough for us. I dont think he is, look where Newcastle finished this season and his 6 league goals. I'd be upset if we had made a move for him given his numbers, he has pedro neto numbers and is simalrly priced.

Play the ball not the man.

6 seasons in the premiership and 7 goals more than Jackson. 1 goal more than Jackson's first season haul for us. I would say in terms of output, there is nothing between them. Any club with Maresca in charge is going to struggle. Reckon both will be here starting for us under Alonso and it's going to cost us points.

The point about Eden Hazard is that he choose Real Madrid over his home with us. That was his personal ambition, to play for Real under Zidane. So by your logic he was no longer good enough for us and wanted to test his ability at Real. Sounds like Gordon tbh, he even speaks Spanish from a clip i saw of him. You know as well as I no player turns down either Barcelona or Real Madrid.

Good luck with your A-Level psychology course.

Ok now if we are done with the barbs let’s speak facts on Jao—

In your opinion is he better than Jackson, Nunez, watkins woldermade, sesko , etc?

Is he on the same level as ekitike, gyokres, osimhen - I would argue

Is he on Haaland, Kane, Isak, level- no. But are they going to come here hell no.

Let me put out the argument also in simple terms for you to rethink. Barca and Madrid are bigger clubs then us and their teams regularly out perform us —> if they think a player is good enough to start for them it’s highly likely he will be good enough to start for us. Hence if Barca wants a Jao as a starter to replace Lewa that should answer any questions on his quality.

How does the Eden hazard example fit this logic - he was a starter here he was a starter there. Please highlight where did I talk about choosing a club over another.

59 minutes ago, Jangz said:

Ok now if we are done with the barbs let’s speak facts on Jao—

In your opinion is he better than Jackson, Nunez, watkins woldermade, sesko , etc?

Is he on the same level as ekitike, gyokres, osimhen - I would argue

Is he on Haaland, Kane, Isak, level- no. But are they going to come here hell no.

Let me put out the argument also in simple terms for you to rethink. Barca and Madrid are bigger clubs then us and their teams regularly out perform us —> if they think a player is good enough to start for them it’s highly likely he will be good enough to start for us. Hence if Barca wants a Jao as a starter to replace Lewa that should answer any questions on his quality.

How does the Eden hazard example fit this logic - he was a starter here he was a starter there. Please highlight where did I talk about choosing a club over another.

You know my opinion on Jackson/ Pedro... I think they're both bang average. See our league position. I dont see any facts in your post. You're asking questions, not spitting facts.

Ollie Watkins is head and shoulders above Pedro. Arsenal had bids in or were looking at him before Gyokres so would be available.

I would swap Pedro for Osimhen today. Who wouldnt. Again, we wouldnt be talking about Pedro if we had secured his services when we were looking. Chelsea missed out. Is he better than Pedro. not up for a debate. See where Galatasaray got with him this season, 10 G/A (7/3) from 10 matches in Champions League.

Could we have got Isak? we'll never know because we signed Pedro/ Delap/ Ganacho for 130 million... we had the money... Just not the people to pull off such a move but we also had Champions League football. Isak's injuries hampered his season.

What metrics are you judging bigger? Bigger debt? Bigger Stadiums, bigger names? Gordon is an average player who will stand out in an average league... See first comment on pedro ability. Bang average and would do well in the Barca side in a bang average league. Look at some of the performances Rashford put in over there.

If italy/ Serie A had the money, we'd also be talking in terms of AC/ Inter/ Juve. Gordon would look good at Rangers/Celtic. See where Im going with this... pretty turd league outside Barca/ Madrid/ Atletico.

The Eden Hazard Example was me saying players dont turn down moves to the big two in spain. Why would gordon turn down a move to spain over staying in newcastle?

You're basically saying were a bang average mid table club and we've signed bang average players... so you're on the same page as me... ;-) unless you think Pedro is elite.

Edited June 2Jun 2 by bluelightening

i think Pedro is closer to elite than bang average.

Absolutely mind boggling thread.

There aren’t any ‘elite’ 9’s in worldwide soccer outside of Haaland & Kane.

JP is a HUGE upgrade on Wacko. Regardless of stats, one looks and plays like a footballer the other like a toddler learning to walk.

PS Osimhen has Premier League bust written all over him. Avoid at all costs.

4 hours ago, OTL said:

i think Pedro is closer to elite than bang average.

Elite players go to world cups. Or if they're not elite they do a job in a national side. Ancellotti, the best manager in the game didnt think he could do either this time around and thought Neymar was a better option.

4 hours ago, The Boehly Babes said:

Absolutely mind boggling thread.

There aren’t any ‘elite’ 9’s in worldwide soccer outside of Haaland & Kane.

JP is a HUGE upgrade on Wacko. Regardless of stats, one looks and plays like a footballer the other like a toddler learning to walk.

PS Osimhen has Premier League bust written all over him. Avoid at all costs.

I dont think we win a title or cup with Pedro or Jackson leading our line, both disappear in big matches... Bottle jobs. I dont know how one more league goal in a debut season for us than Jackson's and a lower ranked finish or even 7 more goals in his premiership career across five seasons is an upgrade. Im struggling to get my head around that.

Osimhen is a very good player... Performed to top levels in the Champions League. I'd welcome the chance for him to flop with us. Absolutely would welcome it.

We spent 100 million last season on Delap and Pedro.

If there is one mitigating factor in Pedro being with us, he had his best season in his career to date with us, if he's still here next season, he needs to better his mid table haul. I remember when we were sh*t in the mid 90's the clamour was for a 20 goal a season striker. The mark stiens, Paul Furlongs, Johnny Spencers of this world were on a par with Pedro's output. we were mid table finishers back then as well.

1 minute ago, bluelightening said:

Elite players go to world cups. Or if they're not elite they do a job in a national side. Ancellotti, the best manager in the game didnt think he could do either this time around and thought Neymar was a better option.

I dont think we win a title or cup with Pedro or Jackson leading our line, both disappear in big matches... Bottle jobs. I dont know how one more league goal in a debut season for us than Jackson's and a lower ranked finish or even 7 more goals in his premiership career across five seasons is an upgrade. Im struggling to get my head around that.

Osimhen is a very good player... Performed to top levels in the Champions League. I'd welcome the chance for him to flop with us. Absolutely would welcome it.

We spent 100 million last season on Delap and Pedro.

If there is one mitigating factor in Pedro being with us, he had his best season in his career to date with us, if he's still here next season, he needs to better his mid table haul. I remember when we were sh*t in the mid 90's the clamour was for a 20 goal a season striker. The mark stiens, Paul Furlongs, Johnny Spencers of this world were on a par with Pedro's output. we were mid table finishers back then as well.

I think a major point being overlooked though is why would elite players want to play for a mediocre mid table club in a small ground, that pays low salaries, doesn't compete and cannot make European competition when half of the division has qualified.

7 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

I think a major point being overlooked though is why would elite players want to play for a mediocre mid table club in a small ground, that pays low salaries, doesn't compete and cannot make European competition when half of the division has qualified.

The same reason we signed players like Viallia and Zola... Hasselbaink... I think we're back in the mid 90's with this seasons finish.

osmihen is playing in the turksih league, wont be on mega bucks as Turkey is broke AF... would have been available for the 100 million we spent last summer on our upgrades.

Anyhow. going to give this thread a clear birth and forget about mid table mediocrity and enjoy the upcoming world cup.

Edited June 2Jun 2 by bluelightening

11 hours ago, bluelightening said:

The same reason we signed players like Viallia and Zola... Hasselbaink... I think we're back in the mid 90's with this seasons finish.

osmihen is playing in the turksih league, wont be on mega bucks as Turkey is broke AF... would have been available for the 100 million we spent last summer on our upgrades.

Anyhow. going to give this thread a clear birth and forget about mid table mediocrity and enjoy the upcoming world cup.

"Pedro is sh*t because we finished 10th"

"We should give Osimhen £325k a week even though he's never played in a competitive league"

These are the people we have to put up with in our fan base FFS

I don’t agree with the Pedro comments, he’s decent for where we are and can get much better with us too but I’d like more quality everywhere.

I’d swap Delap, Garnacho and Gittens for Osimhen tomorrow.He’d impact our season more than the 3 of them combined.

With less games we need more quality less quantity. Real competition for Pedro or someone for him to play off.

Pedro is a cracking number 9 and so is our back up striker Delap

When Enzo, Cucurella and Joao Pedro travelled to Spain together in April for that tennis game, it was a little suspect since it came off the back of the whole Enzo dispute, now it’s starting to make sense. Concerning… well at least for Pedro anyway, since he’s the one we want to keep. Not the best of company, if that’s his circle here.

On 03/06/2026 at 04:55, bluelightening said:

I dont think we win a title or cup with Pedro or Jackson leading our line, both disappear in big matches... Bottle jobs. I dont know how one more league goal in a debut season for us than Jackson's and a lower ranked finish or even 7 more goals in his premiership career across five seasons is an upgrade. Im struggling to get my head around that.

Arse won the league with Gyokeres/Havertz as st and they were in the final on cl too.

2 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Arse won the league with Gyokeres/Havertz as st and they were in the final on cl too.

not sure I understand the point you are making. Havertz scored for us in the Champions league final. Havertz scores big goals in big games. Jury is out for me on Gyokeres. Arsenal conceeding 27 goals all season tells me defense is one of their stregnths and probably why theyre top of the pile.

16 minutes ago, bluelightening said:

not sure I understand the point you are making. Havertz scored for us in the Champions league final. Havertz scores big goals in big games. Jury is out for me on Gyokeres. Arsenal conceeding 27 goals all season tells me defense is one of their stregnths and probably why theyre top of the pile.

You can win the league despite having average strikers is the point.

Gabriel Jesus has 21 PL goals in 84 appearances for Arsenal, Havertz has 24 in 72, and Gyokeres has 14 in 36. None of those are putting up elite numbers, or even a goal every two games.

21 minutes ago, bluelightening said:

not sure I understand the point you are making. Havertz scored for us in the Champions league final. Havertz scores big goals in big games. Jury is out for me on Gyokeres. Arsenal conceeding 27 goals all season tells me defense is one of their stregnths and probably why theyre top of the pile.

J.Pedro scored in the club world cup final.

1 hour ago, Sexyfootball said:

You can win the league despite having average strikers is the point.

Gabriel Jesus has 21 PL goals in 84 appearances for Arsenal, Havertz has 24 in 72, and Gyokeres has 14 in 36. None of those are putting up elite numbers, or even a goal every two games.

OK... go through the numbers for Arsenal and see they have goals from all over the park that support Gyokeres' upfront. They conceded less than us (best defense in division) and scored more.

Gyokeres was in his first season of premiership football, not his 6th.... Havertz is a big game player who delivers when it matters (as we all know) - Our big game players with best numbers have been pedro, Palmer (who had a stinker of a season) and the "box crashing" twat.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team/stats/_/id/359/arsenal

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team/stats/_/id/363/chelsea

54 minutes ago, bluelightening said:

not sure I understand the point you are making. Havertz scored for us in the Champions league final. Havertz scores big goals in big games. Jury is out for me on Gyokeres. Arsenal conceeding 27 goals all season tells me defense is one of their stregnths and probably why theyre top of the pile.

Gyokeres, Kai are not elite st. It is that simple.

You are making football too difficult. Having elite st help, but not having one is not a problem.

Rather than position, we need to look more on what aspect do we need to imrpove on next season as a team?

Edited June 4Jun 4 by Bob stark

50 minutes ago, bluelightening said:

OK... go through the numbers for Arsenal and see they have goals from all over the park that support Gyokeres' upfront. They conceded less than us (best defense in division) and scored more.

Gyokeres was in his first season of premiership football, not his 6th.... Havertz is a big game player who delivers when it matters (as we all know) - Our big game players with best numbers have been pedro, Palmer (who had a stinker of a season) and the "box crashing" twat.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team/stats/_/id/359/arsenal

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team/stats/_/id/363/chelsea

So you agree that you can win without having elite st if the goal come everywhere and you have very good defense.