Strange that defending is such an easy trait to learn yet Baba, who has been a defender longer, still couldn't do it. The same for Luiz, Van Aanholt, Papy and so many more we've had in our ranks. Everyone improves decision making in football, it is something that comes with age. As for the apparent average close control, not every player has to have Hazard-like control to be a winger. Bale and Hulk also have fairly average close control, they seem to have made an alright career for themselves.

Walcott, SWP and Lennon were suppose to become good decision makers as they grew older, never happened, you can improve to a point, but to go From awful to top class? Has that ever happened.

Funny you mention Van Aanholt because under Big Sam he turned into a solid defender, but yes some defenders don't turn good (it's never 100% going to happen) but you see defenders improve their defending a lot more than brainless attackers turn into assist machines.

Wow! Who were the ones who nominated him for the best player of the season twice? GHOSTS!

Lol if Oscar was as sh*t as Mata was no one will want him to leave at his current age.

I never said he was as sh*t, why are you twisting things?

Yes he was our best player in those two seasons, two seasons we were well below the level we aspire to as a club, Demba Ba was the best player in a team that finished above us in Matas first season, should we have kept him just for that?

Like I said, letting Mata go, especially for that price, was 100% correct, were we f**ked it was with the other player the left that month whos now at City.

I never said he was as sh*t, why are you twisting things?

Yes he was our best player in those two seasons, two seasons we were well below the level we aspire to as a club, Demba Ba was the best player in a team that finished above us in Matas first season, should we have kept him just for that?

Like I said, letting Mata go, especially for that price, was 100% correct, were we f**ked it was with the other player the left that month whos now at City.

That's what he does, don't feed him he's just a troll

Walcott, SWP and Lennon were suppose to become good decision makers as they grew older, never happened, you can improve to a point, but to go From awful to top class? Has that ever happened.

Funny you mention Van Aanholt because under Big Sam he turned into a solid defender, but yes some defenders don't turn good (it's never 100% going to happen) but you see defenders improve their defending a lot more than brainless attackers turn into assist machines.

 

Yes but Kenedy isn't brainless and his decision making isn't anywhere near as bad as you're making out?? You act like he puts his head down and runs straight into players. I have very rarely seen this poor decision making you so often point out. 

 

Big Sam also started playing Van Aanholt on the wing, why would he do that if he was so indispensable defensively? Like Van Aanholt, a few goals and assists usually cover up their flaws.

Thing you have to remember about Jim White is.

Jim White is a rubber faced, yellow tie wearing c**t.

He would like to toss Jose's salad

That's what he does, don't feed him he's just a troll

Call me names!

The way Costa has been acting I'd maybe understand why some people would be a bit angry with him but sure Oscar is pretty quiet well behaved.

 

I think he is at his limit and I don't think its good enough for us.

Atleast Costa is a proven goal scorer for a title winning side. What does Oscar even do? 

Cesc is poor defensively, Mata is non existent.

Cesc is a Center Midfielder. Mata is a second striker/CAM. For a center midfielder to be as sh*t defensively as cesc is, is unthinkable.

Cesc is a Center Midfielder. Mata is a second striker/CAM. For a center midfielder to be as sh*t defensively as cesc is, is unthinkable.

Maybe, but this day in age it's also unthinkable for anyone in any position to be non existent defensively, even a centre forward. It's not only about tackling, if you are standing in a position which makes the opponent pass back instead of forward, or help you're fullback and make the winger think twice about taking him on that's as good as an actual tackle.

The amount of times Mata got wiped out of play by a simple triangle from the opponent's were ridiculous. Even if Cesc came and was a total flop it doesn't mean we should have kept Juan or justifys his defensive side in anyway.

Yes but Kenedy isn't brainless and his decision making isn't anywhere near as bad as you're making out?? You act like he puts his head down and runs straight into players. I have very rarely seen this poor decision making you so often point out.

Big Sam also started playing Van Aanholt on the wing, why would he do that if he was so indispensable defensively? Like Van Aanholt, a few goals and assists usually cover up their flaws.

We will have to agree to disagree, I think his decision making is very poor and quite frankly I haven't once been impressed with him on left wing.

I think Sam did at first, but when PVA started to follow Allardyces defensive instructions, he had left back on lock down, Big Sam even praised him for it.

Call me names!

 

Ok, Bob.

Maybe, but this day in age it's also unthinkable for anyone in any position to be non existent defensively, even a centre forward. It's not only about tackling, if you are standing in a position which makes the opponent pass back instead of forward, or help you're fullback and make the winger think twice about taking him on that's as good as an actual tackle.

The amount of times Mata got wiped out of play by a simple triangle from the opponent's were ridiculous. Even if Cesc came and was a total flop it doesn't mean we should have kept Juan or justifys his defensive side in anyway.

silva turning him inside out at the etihad within a minute.

KDB gliding past him at SB. 

2 instances which took me less than 3 seconds to show players leaving Cesc for dead to score a goal.

Again, we are talking about a player who literally cant play up field as his close control is poor and needs space and time to do anything useful and hence love to play as a deep midfielder to play his quarter back-ish passes.

 

Yes, none of this should be an excuse to Mata's defensive qualities. But i feel its also not fair since their designations are different. One is a forward, another a deep midfielder. The area of the pitch where they play makes it a biased discussion

Edited August 4, 20169 yr by didierforever

Ok, Bob.

That's my name

Those two goals should hopefully add a few million to his price tag.

Conte on Oscar: 'I think [he] is a good player with great talent and he can improve a lot. I see a good attitude and a good will.'

Might be the game that keeps him on a while yet !

2 goals against an Italian side. I suppose we're stuck with him for another 4 years now.

Meh.

Seen it over and over again.

He will play 3 or 4 good games then hide like he always does. Hopefully these goals make Inter make their move.

Always pulls out the stops against Italian opposition. Strange...

A goodbye?

A pen and a late goal wont fool Conte

 

If anything it could put him towards the front of the shop window and make a few clubs stand up. Well heres hoping anyway.

Just because Jose was wrong about Oscar doesn't also mean he was wrong about Mata, De Bruyne was the one who should have stayed in all of this.

 Mata has no off the ball nous, zero pace (literally zero), and is embarrassingly weak for a professional footballer, let alone top flight. Unless he has got the ball with space to work his magic it was like we were down to ten men.

 

He was a good guy who helped light up a not so great period for the club (Munich aside), but £37m for him is arguably the best bit of business we have ever done.

Remember all those times we were up against packed defences with no space and Mata did nothing while his team-mates dug us out of trouble? No me neither. The man needed an inch of space and he'd play a killer pass. This came to mind: http://www.thickaccent.com/2013/04/01/demba-ba-goal-vs-manchester-united-super-mata-assist-video/Manure parked the bus - as did everyone else against us because they were scared of Mata/Hazard/Oscar, we had no ideas and Mata dropped deep, turned and played an incredible pass over the top. He pulled out things like this on a weekly basis with no space.

 

He's not great at tracking back, but he's not a complete passenger. When played at #10 and asked to chase the ball a bit and shut down passing lanes he does make an effort - admittedly he's not very good at it, but his contribution going forward makes up for that.

 

 

In terms of Oscar, I feel the same as dkw's post a page or two back. Was so excited when we signed him and he showed flashes of brilliance early on. I genuinely thought he'd be the best of our 3 attacking midfielders. He can pass the ball, is a good finisher, very aware of his surroundings, has a bit of pace and the close control/trickery to go past players. But it just hasn't worked and I have no idea why. Absolute shame. Wouldn't hold it against Conte if he felt that he could bring the best out of Oscar and kept him, but otherwise I think it's time to go.

The frustrating things with Oscar is that he seems to turn it on when he wants to. Or certianly that what it feels like anyway.

He didn't do anything he normally doesn't do.  When given cover the likes of Kante and Chalobah he had freedom to play forward with less defensive responsibility.  Oscar is a player who needs freedom to truly realize his skill.  He can put in a shift defensively but it takes away from his creativity. I'm probably the minority but I think Oscar is a creative little player who brings skill and touch to the team.  I know people want him gone, and if offered 30m for him I'd probably be fine with seeing him go.  But to make it so black and white with Oscar just isn't fair to him.  Under Jose he was arguably asked to work harder than everyone else on the team.  

double post

Edited August 4, 20169 yr by TheChelsRVA