1 hour ago, Jonty said:

That might be relevant had Willian not been named our player of the season all of 3 months ago.

Player of the season for last year, nothing to be proud of. None of them deserved anything. 

Anyway like Keane said judge a player over a couple of years, not a game or two. Least Hazard had his one season.

My thoughts haven't changed. He's a consistently solid player who is versatile and hard-working enough to put in a shift across the attacking third, but never world class. 

Other than the goal i didn't think he offered much yesterday.

The thing with Willian is, he'll pull a blinder of a goal out of his arse every 10 games or so and then he goes back to being his usual hardworking but offensively ineffective self for the next 9 matches.

Just wish we saw a bit more intellengence and aggression in the final third more often. 

Willian is at his best playing centrally. That is what he was at Shaktar. 

On the outside he is a hard working winger that is playing out of position.

In Conte's 3-5-2 system he played as a #8 which suits him better than 7. 

I think we have yet to see the best of Willian for Chelsea.

12 hours ago, Saaladin said:

Willian is at his best playing centrally. That is what he was at Shaktar. 

On the outside he is a hard working winger that is playing out of position.

In Conte's 3-5-2 system he played as a #8 which suits him better than 7. 

I think we have yet to see the best of Willian for Chelsea.

Not sure why people keep saying this. He's varied from poor to average at best everytime he's played in the middle for us, if it wasn't for the goal it would have been yet another depressing performance.

8 hours ago, Remodez said:

He's varied from poor to average at best everytime he's played in the middle for us, if it wasn't for the goal it would have been yet another depressing performance.

 

How many times has he played in the middle for us? It can't be many, I only ever remember him playing out wide, bar for one or two occasions.

 

Second-half he was very good against Hull, though admittedly Hull were poor. The goal apart, he also should have got a pen, which the referee somehow (and somewhat predictably) managed to miss.

 

For ages I've said Willian should play inside and on Saturday he did. If Conte sticks with 3 at the back he'll be keeping his spot there as well, because he impressed in that role far more than Fabregas and Oscar have. Obviously if Conte goes back to a 4 then Willian may find himself on the wing, but not necessarily. Moses may keep his spot out wide and Willian may take the number 8 spot.

 

It's where he belongs for me and right now he's the best player we've got to do it.

 

He's not an attacker, he's a midfielder, and I think he could be a very good one.

Hull is one thing but the big games are another, Willian was no where in the last 2 games. No comparisons can be made to Fabregas because his only start was against Arsenal where Chelsea was so poor, Kante made Mikel look good in that game.

Hull are rubbish, I reckon Fabregas or Oscar would of played well against them with Matic sitting in front of the back 4 that game. Even Matic had a good game.

According to the Mail, he's created the second most chances in the PL this season (23), ahead of the likes of KDB and Payet (20), Sanchez (18) and Silva (17).

Not really much of a stat, corners and free kicks are included even if your own team mates don't touch the ball. So are through balls and crosses.

Need him on the assist table the amount of set pieces he takes.

 

21 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Not really much of a stat, corners and free kicks are included even if your own team mates don't touch the ball. So are through balls and crosses.

Need him on the assist table the amount of set pieces he takes.

 

The stats in the article are provided by Opta.

According to Opta's website, their definition of "chances created" is "assists plus key passes."

Key passes are defined as "the final pass or pass-cum-shot leading to the recipient of the ball having an attempt at goal without scoring."

So chances created do not include instances where a teammate does not touch the ball or useless set pieces, it is a pass that either results in a goal, or an attempt on goal. And Willian has created the second most in the PL thus far.

Edited October 4, 20169 yr by Jonty

Second Assist/Key Pass

A pass/cross that is instrumental in creating a goal-scoring opportunity, for example a corner or free-kick to a player who then assists an attempt, a chance-creating through ball or cross into a dangerous position.

Also comes under key passes. Try and big him up as much you as like. I didn't see Willian on the assist table or crosses from open play, or dribbles. Actually I didn't realise he was playing against Liverpool and Arsenal.  

By stats Antonio is equal to Ageuro and better than Sanchez at scoring goals.

I've done some looking on the Internet and your wrong, chances created can include instances of  players not touching the ball.

If Willian puts in a corner and no one touches it that is a chance created. If Luiz gives Kante the ball and he shoots from 30 yrds that can also be counted as a chance created. 

Also explains why Puncheon is top as he is set piece taker for Palace.

 

 

Right you say that with absolutely nothing to back it up, the definition I provided is straight from Opta's glossary.

Even if it does include "second assists", there still has to have been an attempt made or chance created as a result. Smashing a corner into the first man is not going to show up on there no matter how much you might want it to.

2 hours ago, Jonty said:

Right you say that with absolutely nothing to back it up, the definition I provided is straight from Opta's glossary.

 

In fairness, he did narrow it down somewhat. He saw it on the internet. How specific do you want him to be? ;)

I think Willian is best playing through the middle. I think he played there against Liverpool one time and i finally thought i saw the player we paid 30 mil for.
His key asset is his ability to accelerate at incredible speed, and when he plays in the middle he can help us transition from defence to attack at lightning speed. He's so good at breaking past 1 player and into open space.

I think he's better at beating a man in the midle too where he has more space/options to glide past players than when he is stuck on the wing and has the by-line/touchline as a second defender hemming him in

4 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

Second Assist/Key Pass

A pass/cross that is instrumental in creating a goal-scoring opportunity, for example a corner or free-kick to a player who then assists an attempt, a chance-creating through ball or cross into a dangerous position.

Also comes under key passes. Try and big him up as much you as like. I didn't see Willian on the assist table or crosses from open play, or dribbles. Actually I didn't realise he was playing against Liverpool and Arsenal.  

By stats Antonio is equal to Ageuro and better than Sanchez at scoring goals.

Well he has scored a bunch of goals

1 hour ago, Coxy15 said:

In fairness, he did narrow it down somewhat. He saw it on the internet. How specific do you want him to be? ;)

I think Willian is best playing through the middle. I think he played there against Liverpool one time and i finally thought i saw the player we paid 30 mil for.
His key asset is his ability to accelerate at incredible speed, and when he plays in the middle he can help us transition from defence to attack at lightning speed. He's so good at breaking past 1 player and into open space.

I think he's better at beating a man in the midle too where he has more space/options to glide past players than when he is stuck on the wing and has the by-line/touchline as a second defender hemming him in

I agree, although as i've also said, he has suffered by having to play with Ivanovic usually standing motionless on the touchline right next to him, attracting little to no defensive attention because they know he can't cross or offer anything remotely dangerous offensively. Having someone who can actually get around the outside and drill a good cross into the box will stop Willian continually being double teamed by the opposing full back and winger and should enable him to do a lot more.

https://basstunedtored.com/2014/02/04/when-is-a-chance-not-really-a-chance-or-even-a-shot/

http://www.thefalsenine.co.uk/2015/01/14/the-dangers-of-football-statistics/

Its not as simple as player A passes to player B and he shoots is a chance created. If it wa things would be much simpler.

You can actually not create anything special and be top of the created chances list.

player A 2 yrd pass to player B, he shoots from 30 yrds and hits the top stand is a chance created.

player A takes corner and over hits it a lot but player B gets a head to it and it trickles out near corner flag, will count as chance created.

Freekick taken by Player A, misses everyone's head, counts as chance created.

Just proving a point that these stats like most are pointless.

Without breaking down each chance created you would never know if that player has created anything special. 

15 hours ago, Davey Baby said:

 

How many times has he played in the middle for us? It can't be many, I only ever remember him playing out wide, bar for one or two occasions.

 

Second-half he was very good against Hull, though admittedly Hull were poor. The goal apart, he also should have got a pen, which the referee somehow (and somewhat predictably) managed to miss.

 

For ages I've said Willian should play inside and on Saturday he did. If Conte sticks with 3 at the back he'll be keeping his spot there as well, because he impressed in that role far more than Fabregas and Oscar have. Obviously if Conte goes back to a 4 then Willian may find himself on the wing, but not necessarily. Moses may keep his spot out wide and Willian may take the number 8 spot.

 

It's where he belongs for me and right now he's the best player we've got to do it.

 

He's not an attacker, he's a midfielder, and I think he could be a very good one.

I know Jose went through quite a few periods where Willian played in the middle.

My memory isn't great unless I go back and dig through all the games or the willian thread  (I do recall a game in the league where he played in the middle and was useless but moved out right and scored a goal for us) but I would be willing to bet he's played in the middle for about 20 games, league and cup. Not including moments where he's moved into the middle and stayed there for a while during games either. 

Comes across as wishful thinking in my opinion, he's got the attributes to do the job there and Conte might well be the one to get the best out of him there but from what I've seen so far, he hasn't impressed me when actually played there.

42 minutes ago, Remodez said:

I know Jose went through quite a few periods where Willian played in the middle.

My memory isn't great unless I go back and dig through all the games or the willian thread  (I do recall a game in the league where he played in the middle and was useless but moved out right and scored a goal for us) but I would be willing to bet he's played in the middle for about 20 games, league and cup. Not including moments where he's moved into the middle and stayed there for a while during games either. 

Comes across as wishful thinking in my opinion, he's got the attributes to do the job there and Conte might well be the one to get the best out of him there but from what I've seen so far, he hasn't impressed me when actually played there.

If you want to see the positions he has played try transfermarkt

 

13-14 http://www.transfermarkt.com/willian/leistungsdaten/spieler/52769/plus/0?saison=2013

14-15 http://www.transfermarkt.com/willian/leistungsdaten/spieler/52769/plus/0?saison=2014

15-16 http://www.transfermarkt.com/willian/leistungsdaten/spieler/52769/plus/0?saison=2015

16-17 http://www.transfermarkt.com/willian/leistungsdaten/spieler/52769/plus/0?saison=2016

I think Remodez is right, I definitely recall him playing in the middle a fair bit last season when Oscar was dropped for Pedro.

You guys might be right, my memory's not the best. Anyroad, Saturday was the first time he's played inside under Conte, and for my money, he was impressive, particularly second-half, far more than he is on the wing, usually. Yes it was only Hull but you can only play what's in front of you. Saturday was interesting, Willian had Moses outside him and Hazard had (the less effective) Alonso outside him, and it was good to see, and I dare say they enjoyed it a fair bit more, and I think it will suit the both of them. Willian and Moses in particular seemed to combine a lot. Willian's goal was class as well, let's not forget that, and it only came through playing through the middle.

2 hours ago, kiwi1691 said:

If you want to see the positions he has played try transfermarkt

 

13-14 http://www.transfermarkt.com/willian/leistungsdaten/spieler/52769/plus/0?saison=2013

14-15 http://www.transfermarkt.com/willian/leistungsdaten/spieler/52769/plus/0?saison=2014

15-16 http://www.transfermarkt.com/willian/leistungsdaten/spieler/52769/plus/0?saison=2015

16-17 http://www.transfermarkt.com/willian/leistungsdaten/spieler/52769/plus/0?saison=2016

Very useful actually, thanks. 

 

Very sad news. Willian's mother has passed away from brain cancer. 

http://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2016/10/13/13265548/chelsea-willian-mother-passes-away