43 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

How many of those are direct competitors for Willian's right wing position, though.  Silva and Mahrez were both all over the shop at Wemberlee, Sterling looks good in a good team, I'm still not convinced about him in our system, and  De Bruyne wanders across all midfield positions.  We were discussing a RW replacement,so your premise is false!  Go stand in the corner.

 

36 minutes ago, enigma said:

They signed for City mainly because of Pep. I don't think any one of those would have wanted to play under Conte tbh. I don't think they would have fitted the system either with the tracking back they would have been required to do. Kdb may have been the exception but we let him go. 

I was using City as an example of a team that has repeatedly managed to source and sign attacking midfielders/right wingers during the time we’ve had Willian at the club. 

I’m not saying we should necessarily have signed those specific players but merely pointing out that players are out there and aren’t necessarily costing overly inflated fees. 

If City are identifying that and signing that calibre of attacker consistently then there’s no reason we shouldn’t be able to as well. 

33 minutes ago, enigma said:

If you were to believe some rumours he was at the Chelsea harbour hotel a season ago or so ago when he went Awol from Leicester, ready to sign for us. Of course those are rumours and nobody knows the truth there. 

If he did in fact meet with Chelsea it shows his openness to moving to the club and that only failing to agreeing a fee and wages would have prevented a deal from happening. 

And there lies the rub of the issue I think, we’ve not been willing to go that extra mile to sign new attackers because we’ve contented ourselves with what we’ve got instead of striving for better and more quality competition in attack, especially on the right. 

2 minutes ago, coco said:

Location didn't stop Tibo leaving, Sarri may not come good, our pedigree is a nice historical fact, but means nothing at the moment. 

City are winning now, champs now, probably winning the cl soon, the best manager, best wages, best quality team mates to surround yourself with.

Last summer, as Champions of England we didn’t sign the the type of player needed to elevate the quality of the team/squad. 

That of the seven outfield players we signed last season, only one is currently viewed as first choice speaks for itself. 

City as an option shouldn’t be far more attractive an option as Chelsea... if they are, an ignorance to improve upon a player like Willian is huge contributing factor to that. 

15 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

City as an option shouldn’t be far more attractive an option as Chelsea... if they are, an ignorance to improve upon a player like Willian is huge contributing factor to that. 

Lets blame Willian for city being a more attractive option than us 

 

56 minutes ago, coco said:

Location didn't stop Tibo leaving, Sarri may not come good, our pedigree is a nice historical fact, but means nothing at the moment. 

City are winning now, champs now, probably winning the cl soon, the best manager, best wages, best quality team mates to surround yourself with.

We have a long way to go before we are going to be as attractive an option as city are now.

It doesnt matter if you agree or not, i know thats true.^

Back to the initial debate, who can we viably bring in to replace Willian, if the window was still open that is. Seeing as it closed Willian has to stay 

I thought he was happy in London but wanted to be with his kids? I seem to remember Kovacic saying something in his interview about being excited to be in a great city like London, so it obviously has a pull.

Sarri may also become very good.

Do you honestly think a player doesn't look how good a team has been at winning things in recent years when deciding what team to move to? 

As for who can we bring in, i listed several on the previous page that would be good, young alternatives. 

Thank goodness some of you can only manage Chelsea on football manager. Love that he's staying and love that he's not afraid to have an opinion. If I had sh*t boss I would want to leave too and if asked I would say the exact same as him

Even if you highly rate Willian and Pedro, the fact they are 30/31 means is an area of the team that requires attention next summer. 

We sorted midfield out this summer, so I think the club felt we could squeeze another season out Willian and Pedro, and then look at the market next year. 

The contract extensions just give us a little more leverage if we go to move them next summer. 

I think we can compete with city for players, as long as we are prepared to spend the money. City have shown that they won't go above what they believe is a fair valuation, and they have pulled out of deals because of it. 

The big difference between us and city now though, is we can't afford to fix the whole team in 1 window, it's going to take 3 possibly 4 windows for sarri to have his ideal squad.

Even city needed 2 summers to put guardiola' s team together, Liverpool have have took even longer, since they have lost a few starts along the way. 

20 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

 

I was using City as an example of a team that has repeatedly managed to source and sign attacking midfielders/right wingers during the time we’ve had Willian at the club. 

I’m not saying we should necessarily have signed those specific players but merely pointing out that players are out there and aren’t necessarily costing overly inflated fees. 

If City are identifying that and signing that calibre of attacker consistently then there’s no reason we shouldn’t be able to as well. 

If he did in fact meet with Chelsea it shows his openness to moving to the club and that only failing to agreeing a fee and wages would have prevented a deal from happening. 

And there lies the rub of the issue I think, we’ve not been willing to go that extra mile to sign new attackers because we’ve contented ourselves with what we’ve got instead of striving for better and more quality competition in attack, especially on the right. 

There was a video that surfaced on the net in Conte's first season in which Mahrez was caught saying something along the lines of "Chelsea? They are a amazing team" to a teammate in the tunnel before (or after) one of their games. Maybe the stadium plans were the reason for us putting signings on hold. Now the stadium isn't going ahead right now, Roman may be more willing to invest more. Who knows. 

Edited August 18, 20187 yr by enigma

22 hours ago, Brutos said:

Thank goodness some of you can only manage Chelsea on football manager. Love that he's staying and love that he's not afraid to have an opinion. If I had sh*t boss I would want to leave too and if asked I would say the exact same as him

I don't see how any Chelsea fan can be comfortable with Willian's comments in that interview. Do you honestly think his performances over the last 2 years entitles him to a place in the first 11? He started in most of our biggest games last season and we lost most of them with him on the field. I'm not saying he was the reason for those losses, but maybe he should be stepping up and getting us a win from these positions before he starts complaining about being a sub. In those games, how many of them did he perform well in? The Barcelona ones are the only games I can think of.

There just isn't enough evidence in Willian's favour here. Conte wasn't wrong to rotate him and Pedro, neither of them did enough to guarantee a place in the starting 11.

This is a big season for Willian now. After those comments, I expect consistent performances and better end product. If he doesn't produce under Sarri and starts sulking again for being dropped out of the team now and again, then maybe it's best if he leaves.

Edited August 18, 20187 yr by Scott Harris

4 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

I don't see how any Chelsea fan can be comfortable with Willian's comments in that interview. Do you honestly think his performances over the last 2 years entitles him to a place in the first 11? 

....

This is a big season for Willian now. After those comments, I expect consistent performances and better end product. If he doesn't produce under Sarri and starts sulking again for being dropped out of the team now and again, then maybe it's best if he leaves.

Absolutely agree. Personally I would have been happy to see him sold on principle due to his behaviour. 

It's put up or shut up time. 

Watch the run Willian makes for the first goal, pulls Bellerini into our half with a run towards our own goal and leaves a gaping space down the left wing for Alonso to run into. Great team goal.

On ‎17‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 17:41, big blue said:

Even if you highly rate Willian and Pedro, the fact they are 30/31 means is an area of the team that requires attention next summer. 

We sorted midfield out this summer, so I think the club felt we could squeeze another season out Willian and Pedro, and then look at the market next year. 

The contract extensions just give us a little more leverage if we go to move them next summer. 

I think we can compete with city for players, as long as we are prepared to spend the money. City have shown that they won't go above what they believe is a fair valuation, and they have pulled out of deals because of it. 

The big difference between us and city now though, is we can't afford to fix the whole team in 1 window, it's going to take 3 possibly 4 windows for sarri to have his ideal squad.

Even city needed 2 summers to put guardiola' s team together, Liverpool have have took even longer, since they have lost a few starts along the way. 

That might leave us a minimum of four players we need to replace next season, Willian, Pedro, Giroud and Kovacic. That is likely a large outlay unless CHO or another can come through the ranks.

43 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

That might leave us a minimum of four players we need to replace next season, Willian, Pedro, Giroud and Kovacic. That is likely a large outlay unless CHO or another can come through the ranks.

I think it'd be one of either Pedro OR Willian leaving. Doubt we'd dump them both next season.

48 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

That might leave us a minimum of four players we need to replace next season, Willian, Pedro, Giroud and Kovacic. That is likely a large outlay unless CHO or another can come through the ranks.

Like @RIP Mourinho said it would probably be one of Willian and Pedro £60m, Kovacic will cost us ~£60m, and replacing Giroud could be either offset by selling Batshuayi, or just using Batshuayi instead. 

We managed a net spend of around £70m this summer without champions league football, so if we can get back into the top 4, and and actually get some fees for the likes of bakayoko, drinkwater, Kenedy, etc, there should be plenty of money available. 

9 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

I think it'd be one of either Pedro OR Willian leaving. Doubt we'd dump them both next season.

My money would be on Willian. 

Pedro’s been given his contract extension and kicks up less of a stink about being rotated. 

Unless CHO has a break out season you’ve got to think we’ll be in the market for a new winger come next season, especially if Hazard hasn’t signed a new contract as well. 

Doesn't seem to understand Sarriball, seems to lack the intelligence. Pedro should be the starter for the rest of the season. The difference between the two when the change was made was huge.

8 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Doesn't seem to understand Sarriball, seems to lack the intelligence. Pedro should be the starter for the rest of the season. The difference between the two when the change was made was huge.

I agree. I don't think Willian had a poor game, just a bit of ineffective. He had a few nice touches and kept things simple, but when it came to needing to deliver the final ball, take his man on or take a shot, he just didn't have it in him. 

He reacted poorly when he was benched so often by Conte, will he do the same under Sarri? because I can see Pedro being the preferred choice again. Lot's of running can only take you so far, if you don't have the end product, then you will always lose your place to somebody that does have it.

Agree about him possibly kicking up a fuss if he isn't the undisputed starter. Could see him leaving in summer tbh.

Pedro has out scored him in two of his three seasons at Chelsea.

This Sarri team looks like it needs goals because Morata has been generally poor and the midfield three of Kante, Kovacic and Kante don’t like they have many goals in them so Pedro has got to start ahead of Willian otherwise we’re relying on Hazard and Alonso for goals. 

When we have hazard on one side who is more of a playmaker than goal scorer, then we have morata through the middle who is struggling to hit any kind of form, playing Willian on the right leaves us pretty toothless, as he is more of a creator like hazard. 

It's just a really bad fit. 

Pedro is a finisher, so he has to start for me. 

Hopefully he doesn't spit his dummy out, because he has no right to this season. 

 

Toothless, poor final ball, lacks concentration.

Pedro is a better fit for us, and imo I honestly think CHO and moses may offer more than Willian.

On 01/09/2018 at 18:04, RIP Mourinho said:

Pedro should be the starter for the rest of the season.

 

On 01/09/2018 at 18:16, Scott Harris said:

I can see Pedro being the preferred choice again.

 

On 02/09/2018 at 04:23, axman2526 said:

Pedro is a better fit for us,

 

On 01/09/2018 at 18:48, big blue said:

Pedro is a finisher, so he has to start for me.

But only a few weeks ago, the general consensus of opinion in here was that Pedro was now getting too old,  his legs had gone, he wasn't consistent enough, he was a bit bandy, CHO HAD to replace both him and Willian, and, well, basically, they were both just a bit sh*t.

Now, a couple of goals, a decent performance or two and Pedro es  el hombre.

Nothing like a good bit of consistency amongst the fanbase, is there?  NO,  Dave, there isn't!

 

Oh, and for  full disclosure, I have always thought that both Willian and Pedro were good, needed to rotate between them, and that most of us in here are and were overly critical of both.  But then, everything is either black or white, ain't it?  Players are either Messi-level all the time or they are cack and need selling, now.

Edited September 3, 20187 yr by yorkleyblue

I thought the general consensus was once Sarri came in most agreed that Pedro would do well because of his Barcelona upbringing. 

There were the occasional Willian sympathists that argued he should start for whatever reason, but most in favour of Pedro between the two.

Don't know if it was this thread, the CHO thread, Transfers thread or Pedro thread but most said for Willian to leave with Pedro staying and CHO filling the gap or a new signing. 

Well, you KNOW I hate to be either argumentative or smug, but, just one page from the Pedro thread.........The first one is you @RIP Mourinho, as is the last one too.

 

On 05/03/2018 at 10:02, RIP Mourinho said:

Can someone please explain to me or try to justify how Pedro is still getting games this season? On par with Bakayoko for the biggest under performer. 

 

On 05/03/2018 at 10:25, the special one said:

Had a good first half of the season but has been abysmal since. 11 goals/assists in 37 appearances is imho a good return for someone who I consider to be backup for Willian, though I'm struggling to see how he justifies selection ahead of Hudson-Odoi.

 

On 05/03/2018 at 12:26, Ernie_blue said:

Playing terrible, his overall game has been so poor and maybe this could be seen as another keeping faith in an under performing player after Cahill and Baka? CHO would come before Pedro at the moment whether it's starting line-up or bench.

 

On 05/03/2018 at 12:51, 2211 said:

I really don't get the fuss with this guy.

Sure he runs around a lot and looks busy, but he is poor with the ball and scores 1 goal for every 15 attempts.

Shouldn't be a starter IMO, I would rather give more minutes to Hudson-Odei.

 

On 05/03/2018 at 13:32, sonic90 said:

He's in really poor form, loses the ball constantly due to poor passing. When he gets the balls and accelerates I expect him to burst through slower players as pace is one of his biggest assets but it's almost as if his top speed has declined and he gets closed down quite easily. These days he won't be able to sprint past a defender without a massive head start.

 

On 05/03/2018 at 17:10, IliyaKrostin said:

He and Fabregas have to be sold in the summer.

 

On 05/03/2018 at 17:36, General said:

turning out to be Malouda mk 2, had one good season - the last one ! and that'

s looking like a fluke, hes 30 in July, contract expires next year, must be sold in the summer

 

On 05/03/2018 at 17:45, Kev56 said:

He’s f**kin crap and to make matters worse when he f**ks up we have to endure his god awefull f**kin grin. 

 

On 06/03/2018 at 08:18, RIP Mourinho said:

i'd keep Fabregas and play him in a similar role to last season. Bring him on for the last 25 mins against tired legs. Pedro on the other hand i'd clear out asap. 

 

That's what I mean by people being fickle.  There are obviously many,  many more examples.

Edited September 3, 20187 yr by yorkleyblue

They're all quotes from straight after the 1 - nil loss to City last season, one of out worst performances EVER. Of course there was going to be knee jerk reactions, but over the summer once Sarri was announced the majority changed their tune.