For every 'clear cut' chance i can give you an attack slowed down or first touch to break down a move. Just take the Wolves game as prime example, two shocking misses that arguably cost us the game. A poor touch from Willian almost completely breaks down the counter attack for our first goal against City, luckily Hazard was there to clean up his mistakes again and produce a moment of magic. 

Sure there are a lot of us that are harsh on him but to say he is having a great season is so far from the mark. The most game time of any our wingers yet has only managed to match the output of Kante..

Willian's best ever season was as an impact sub under Conte, coming on against tired legs. Wouldn't start for any other top team.

Edit: Not to even mention Willian trying to dribble out from his own area and gifting them a goal against Wolves

Edited December 18, 20187 yr by RIP Mourinho

6 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

For every 'clear cut' chance i can give you an attack slowed down or first touch to break down a move. Just take the Wolves game as prime example, two shocking misses that arguably cost us the game. A poor touch from Willian almost completely breaks down the counter attack for our first goal against City, luckily Hazard was there to clean up his mistakes again and produce a moment of magic. 

Sure there are a lot of us that are harsh on him but to say he is having a great season is so far from the mark. The most game time of any our wingers yet has only managed to match the output of Kante..

Willian's best ever season was as an impact sub under Conte, coming on against tired legs. Wouldn't start for any other top team.

Edit: Not to even mention Willian trying to dribble out from his own area and gifting them a goal against Wolves

The dribble out on Willian the more I see it the less I put on Willian. First Willian did an excellent job of winning, then it looks like he loses it on a pass.  I think RLC should have held his position for the easy ball there, and that's what Willian was looking for, instead he pushes forward into a space already occupied by Hazard.

16 minutes ago, Wearyourblue said:

The dribble out on Willian the more I see it the less I put on Willian. First Willian did an excellent job of winning, then it looks like he loses it on a pass.  I think RLC should have held his position for the easy ball there, and that's what Willian was looking for, instead he pushes forward into a space already occupied by Hazard.

Willian was running inside into congested areas all game long against Wolves, his decision making and use of the ball in possession of the ball was pretty bad that game.

He holds onto the ball for too long and generally ends up going sideways.

Personally I think Hazard and Pedro have out performed him this season.

The simple fact is that Pedro has goals in his game from open play (we've all seen his finishing is outstanding) and Willian doesn't, and that's why i'd have him starting ahead of Willian in every league game. We definitely need to look at the situation on that right wing though, they're both ageing wingers and the burden can't lie with hazard every game to create and score

Pedro any day of the week.......such a pity he is getting up their in age.

We are linked with both Callum Wilson and Pusilic, if we got both of those this Jan or Summer that would be a good start.

Also need a change in the full back position this season too.

I still wasn't impressed with him last game, one assist does not change his overall performance. 

He's not doing enough with the ball, if he doesn't improve this season I would say we are due an upgrade, him and Pedro are getting on now anyway, wide players have short careers. 

4 hours ago, Wearyourblue said:

The dribble out on Willian the more I see it the less I put on Willian. First Willian did an excellent job of winning, then it looks like he loses it on a pass.  I think RLC should have held his position for the easy ball there, and that's what Willian was looking for, instead he pushes forward into a space already occupied by Hazard.

Sarri wants his two CM's to push forward and receive passes, not stay deep. Willian loses it on a pass heavy touch after missing a dozen passes before and trying to dribble it out of his own area. Try as much as you like to blame someone else but that goal is 100% on Willian. In fact, that entire loss is on Willian.

29 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Sarri wants his two CM's to push forward and receive passes, not stay deep. Willian loses it on a pass heavy touch after missing a dozen passes before and trying to dribble it out of his own area. Try as much as you like to blame someone else but that goal is 100% on Willian. In fact, that entire loss is on Willian.

We'll agree to disagree there I guess,  Jorginho almost always works under the ball unless a defender has it, and if he doesn't then Kovacic does.  I get others disagree, but I don't think we give up either goal with Kovacic on the field.  

We'll see what continues but no coincidence in my mind that the games following RLC has been a wing sub, and hazard has been a false 9.

I think we grade players too often on one moment, some over grade Willian on his steal/ assist to Hazard and some under grade him on his ball loss against the Wolves.  

I felt like watching the Wolves game, was watching the end of the Morata era at Chelsea, he was so poor that game, and looked broken.  And while I thought RLC struggled in the midfield, that game made it clear you'd rather have RLC on the field than Morata.

4 hours ago, atomis said:

Pedro any day of the week.......such a pity he is getting up their in age.

I love how Pedro plays, nice thing with Hazard as a false 9... for now it keeps more of our best players on the pitch

14 minutes ago, Wearyourblue said:

We'll agree to disagree there I guess,  Jorginho almost always works under the ball unless a defender has it, and if he doesn't then Kovacic does.  I get others disagree, but I don't think we give up either goal with Kovacic on the field.  

We'll see what continues but no coincidence in my mind that the games following RLC has been a wing sub, and hazard has been a false 9.

I think we grade players too often on one moment, some over grade Willian on his steal/ assist to Hazard and some under grade him on his ball loss against the Wolves.  

I felt like watching the Wolves game, was watching the end of the Morata era at Chelsea, he was so poor that game, and looked broken.  And while I thought RLC struggled in the midfield, that game made it clear you'd rather have RLC on the field than Morata.

Pretty much everyone voted RLC MOTM against Wolves, whilst playing CM. He's only been shifted out wide because Moses is injured and Sarri refuses to play CHO so we have no other option when bringing someone on the wing. Fairly confident in saying Sarri still sees RLC as the LCM.

2 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Pretty much everyone voted RLC MOTM against Wolves, whilst playing CM. He's only been shifted out wide because Moses is injured and Sarri refuses to play CHO so we have no other option when bringing someone on the wing. Fairly confident in saying Sarri still sees RLC as the LCM.

Sure, he scored a goal and that goes a long way.  And his attacking value is obvious.  But it's easier to vote a guy man of the match for what is seen the goal. Fact is both goals originated in the spot the LCM occupies, and the other fact is RLCs next 2 Premiership games he was playing a wide attacking role.  RLC's strength as an attacker are obvious quality.

Think Moses has fallen behing both RLC and CHO on the wing.  You just can't play Moses over RLC there now.  I see RLC having taken over that 4th spot and CHO has the 5th, and Moses is just not in the rotation anymore.

32 minutes ago, Wearyourblue said:

Sure, he scored a goal and that goes a long way.  And his attacking value is obvious.  But it's easier to vote a guy man of the match for what is seen the goal. Fact is both goals originated in the spot the LCM occupies, and the other fact is RLCs next 2 Premiership games he was playing a wide attacking role.  RLC's strength as an attacker are obvious quality.

Think Moses has fallen behing both RLC and CHO on the wing.  You just can't play Moses over RLC there now.  I see RLC having taken over that 4th spot and CHO has the 5th, and Moses is just not in the rotation anymore.

I was at the game and RLC's work rate was incredible. Can remember him making a huge run back and a brilliant slide tackle on the edge of our own box in the second half. The RLC work rate myth should have left the club with Mourinho. 

Christensen/Alonso at fault for the first goal. Willian/Alonso at fault for the second goal.

Agree about Moses though, imagine he'll be sold to West Ham or someone in January.

22 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

I was at the game and RLC's work rate was incredible. Can remember him making a huge run back and a brilliant slide tackle on the edge of our own box in the second half. The RLC work rate myth should have left the club with Mourinho. 

Christensen/Alonso at fault for the first goal. Willian/Alonso at fault for the second goal.

Agree about Moses though, imagine he'll be sold to West Ham or someone in January.

Alonso was the least at fault on the team on the second goal, he was the only player doing anything.  Right after the Wolves won it, he had to pinch in to stop the early goal, as Willian's arguing with the ref, and Dave is fixing his socks. Rudiger fell asleep.  No way Alonso gets any fault, he defended it as well as can be.

There's a few players at fault for that goal, including alonso, his positioning is wrong, he and christiensen are both marking the same player. 

Maybe it was because he had in his head the 1st goal, so he over compensates to stop that ball in the channel, but he should've been 3 or 4 yards wider, and in a better position to block the cross. 

Poor goal to concede all round though, the back 4 were all over the place, Willian shouldve either gone down, or played on, but the ref should have called the foul regardless. 

Well, looks like Willian won't be a target for Man Utd now Jose has gone.

Edited December 19, 20187 yr by Osgood is Good

I like Willian but this season he’s been very, very underwhelming. I struggle to understand why we declined 60 million from Barcelona this summer. He’s 30 and that money could have been used to get the CB or striker the manager wanted.
Pedro is the better RW out of the two.

4 hours ago, big blue said:

There's a few players at fault for that goal, including alonso, his positioning is wrong, he and christiensen are both marking the same player. 

Maybe it was because he had in his head the 1st goal, so he over compensates to stop that ball in the channel, but he should've been 3 or 4 yards wider, and in a better position to block the cross. 

Poor goal to concede all round though, the back 4 were all over the place, Willian shouldve either gone down, or played on, but the ref should have called the foul regardless. 

If you think his positioning is wrong you have no clue what you're talking about.. that simple.  He had to step inside or the ball just gets slipped between him and Christensen for an easy shot.  Once Christensen was able to get their, Alonso slid out to the wide player. Dave fixing his socks held the Wolves fella on, Alonso was very aware.  Willian turning to ask for the call took away any screen of that passing lane.  I swear every now and then people just sound like they're on a witch hunt.  Some of you want him to be every where.  If he placed himself wider and the ball got slipped in for a goal, you'd be whining about him giving up the simple goal.

 

Hazard, Morata, and RLC were all in the same passing lane forcing Willian to dribble out, Willian exposed the ball.  Rudiger, Christensen and Dave took a nap right after Willian won it.  The only guy on blue that kept aware and playing was Alonso.

57 minutes ago, Wearyourblue said:

If you think his positioning is wrong you have no clue what you're talking about.. that simple.  He had to step inside or the ball just gets slipped between him and Christensen for an easy shot.  Once Christensen was able to get their, Alonso slid out to the wide player. Dave fixing his socks held the Wolves fella on, Alonso was very aware.  Willian turning to ask for the call took away any screen of that passing lane.  I swear every now and then people just sound like they're on a witch hunt.  Some of you want him to be every where.  If he placed himself wider and the ball got slipped in for a goal, you'd be whining about him giving up the simple goal.

 

Hazard, Morata, and RLC were all in the same passing lane forcing Willian to dribble out, Willian exposed the ball.  Rudiger, Christensen and Dave took a nap right after Willian won it.  The only guy on blue that kept aware and playing was Alonso.

His positioning is wrong, if not entirely down to him though, when christiensen gets across, alonso should have shifted a few yards left, and maybe he would've been able to get a block the cross. Maybe the communication from christiensen wasn't right, it's impossible to know. 

I don't think you can absolve him of any blame for that goal. 

There is no witch hunt from me for alonso, he's a decent player, in a poor run of form, but in my opinion, his lack of pace is a weak link in the side. 

We have a difference of opinion, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, maybe you don't. 

 

Just looking at the picture sequence above, it looks like Alonso was covering Christensen who was out of position, and then was trying to  get back to prevent what actually happened.  I'd have to  see the video to be any more certain of anything than that, but then I don't have an agenda against any of our players, so maybe an unbiased opinion isn't what is required.

18 minutes ago, big blue said:

His positioning is wrong, if not entirely down to him though, when christiensen gets across, alonso should have shifted a few yards left, and maybe he would've been able to get a block the cross. Maybe the communication from christiensen wasn't right, it's impossible to know. 

I'd say it was mostly Christensens fault. Alonso had to cover him initially and when Christensen was back in a somewhat decent position he should have ordered Alonso to cover the overlapping Doherty.
Or Alonso could have done it if he was aware of his surroundings but Christensen was in the best position to do so. A quick LB also would have been able to get much closer to Doherty after the pass was made and would possibly have blocked the cross.

Edited December 19, 20187 yr by Sindre

19 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Just looking at the picture sequence above, it looks like Alonso was covering Christensen who was out of position, and then was trying to  get back to prevent what actually happened.  I'd have to  see the video to be any more certain of anything than that, but then I don't have an agenda against any of our players, so maybe an unbiased opinion isn't what is required.

If you watch the video, Alonso actually steps further inside, and offers the pass to Docherty, who he has given acres of space, and he doesn't have the pace to make up the ground. Maybe I'm being harsh on alonso, as christiensen is in a better position to control the situation, but I still think Alonso over covers, because because of the pass that created the 1st goal. 

Not a big error, but one of a few small errors, from 6 or 7 players that lead to the goal.

4 minutes ago, Sindre said:

I'd say it was mostly Christensens fault. Alonso had to cover him initially and when Christensen was back in a somewhat decent position he should have ordered Alonso to cover the overlapping Doherty.
Or Alonso could have done it if he was aware of his surroundings but Christensen was in the best position to do so. A quick LB also would have been able to get much closer to Doherty after the pass was made and would possibly have blocked the cross.

Getting closer really would not have helped trying to block the cross... Alonso played the angle of the cross first and almost got to it.  The time difference between Alonso covering, picture 2 above and the cross being delivered was 3 seconds.  Irregardless, Alonso making that play would be world class.  And if Azpi was up 3 or 4 more yards instead of fixing equipment, GW is in an offside position and Alonso could start moving to the wide player.

31 minutes ago, big blue said:

If you watch the video, Alonso actually steps further inside, and offers the pass to Docherty, who he has given acres of space, and he doesn't have the pace to make up the ground. Maybe I'm being harsh on alonso, as christiensen is in a better position to control the situation, but I still think Alonso over covers, because because of the pass that created the 1st goal. 

Not a big error, but one of a few small errors, from 6 or 7 players that lead to the goal.

The first goal is harsh to put so much on Alonso as well, Fabergas gets stuck on the wrong side, RLC offers little in support, and Christensen gets stuck on the wrong side.  Alonso had to leave the wide player to try and help.  The first goal was a first time finish,  Kante and Rudiger both overplay the pass going left, and Christensen gets lost widening the gap with Alonso.  MA puts pressure but I don't see how he gets to that ball without giving a penalty.  Christensen's out of form and neither RLC or Fabergas offer enough defense in the midfield, it puts a ton on Alonso's shoulders. I'd be surprised if we see another premier league game all year where Fabergas and RLC start in the mid with Christensen in the back.

1 hour ago, yorkleyblue said:

Just looking at the picture sequence above, it looks like Alonso was covering Christensen who was out of position, and then was trying to  get back to prevent what actually happened.  I'd have to  see the video to be any more certain of anything than that, but then I don't have an agenda against any of our players, so maybe an unbiased opinion isn't what is required.

Christensen was the one out of position originally and wasn't in sync with the back 4, all it takes is one well-weighted pass and that's it. 

I don't understand how Alonso is the scapegoat in that goal, I don't think people analyse the goals we concede properly, they just look and see "Oh came from Alonso's side? Yeah his fault"