Just now, Scott Harris said:

I'm tired of this excuse. We're not scapegoating Willian, it's not like he is the only one getting heavily criticised (Morata has received much more criticism for his performances than any other) the simple fact is that he has been playing like sh*t for a long time now. 3 goals and 4 assists in 22 games is an awful return. He's even playing in a more attacking side and he still can't perform. If anything, it's highlighting more than ever just how average Willian is as an attacking player. 

Willian has proven that Conte was right to use him the way he did, he's a squad player at best.

We'll see what happens on Saturday but I suspect Pedro will start just as he did against Fulham, with Willian on the bench. With games coming thick and fast at this time of year Sarri has to rotate. 

If you say so, @Scott Harris.  I disagree, I see it all the time, the same old cut-and-paste criticisms posted, regardless of how Willian is ACTUALLY playing, by the same set of usual suspects.  It's not just Willian, you know that there are people who don't like Alonso, some who don't like Kovacic, quite a few who have turned on Jorginho, some trolling fool who wants us to sell Kante, and spots every small mistake he makes and one special idiot who appears to have a personal dislike of Dave.

It was always thus, Mikel had his haters who trotted out the same old sideways and backwards bollocks every match, Malouda dropped out of fashion, Ivanovich got turned on pretty quickly.

I thought it was just people seeing things differently to me for the most part, but a recent match where some twat was posting anti-Willian posts within  a minute or so of him coming onto the pitch showed me that that prick at least was just waiting to post such tripe.  However, when you say " he has been playing like sh*t for a long time now."  you are applying your own personal bias.  It was only two or three matches ago that he received a standing ovation from the entire crowd when he was substituted.

As I said previously, I don't hear the Willian scapegoating at the Bridge, I only ever see it in here.  And, also as I have said in here on many occasions, Willian is far from being ideal and the best player in the squad, but he is nowhere near as bad as a lot of people in here have convinced themselves that he is.  So, just looking for a little bit of rationality and balance, really.  A rare commodity amongst football fans, I know, but what can you expect from an old peace-loving hippy like me?

 

Just now, yorkleyblue said:

If you say so, @Scott Harris.  I disagree, I see it all the time, the same old cut-and-paste criticisms posted, regardless of how Willian is ACTUALLY playing, by the same set of usual suspects.  It's not just Willian, you know that there are people who don't like Alonso, some who don't like Kovacic, quite a few who have turned on Jorginho, some trolling fool who wants us to sell Kante, and spots every small mistake he makes and one special idiot who appears to have a personal dislike of Dave.

It was always thus, Mikel had his haters who trotted out the same old sideways and backwards bollocks every match, Malouda dropped out of fashion, Ivanovich got turned on pretty quickly.

I thought it was just people seeing things differently to me for the most part, but a recent match where some twat was posting anti-Willian posts within  a minute or so of him coming onto the pitch showed me that that prick at least was just waiting to post such tripe.  However, when you say " he has been playing like sh*t for a long time now."  you are applying your own personal bias.  It was only two or three matches ago that he received a standing ovation from the entire crowd when he was substituted.

As I said previously, I don't hear the Willian scapegoating at the Bridge, I only ever see it in here.  And, also as I have said in here on many occasions, Willian is far from being ideal and the best player in the squad, but he is nowhere near as bad as a lot of people in here have convinced themselves that he is.  So, just looking for a little bit of rationality and balance, really.  A rare commodity amongst football fans, I know, but what can you expect from an old peace-loving hippy like me?

 

It's the nature of the modern social media football fan isnt it? I see some braindead circus clowns on here and on twitter claiming Hazard needs to be sold to Madrid ASAP as well. I'm all for dropping underperforming players, and I do think Alonso and Willian haven't been up to their usual standards of late, but I have to agree that the constant broken record criticisms of those two in particular are extremely tiring. And it's funny that it only happens after we underperform as a whole team. Everyone bar RLC and maybe Dave and Rudiger was sh*te last night, can't lay the blame solely on the typical scapegoats

51 minutes ago, RMCM said:

I do think Alonso and Willian haven't been up to their usual standards of late

What concerns me most... Willian HAS been up to his usual standards.

He's on pace for his typical 6 goals 6 assist return (give or take). For some, that's good enough. I'd like to see more from that position.

Alonso on the other hand. Goodness, he's been really bad the last couple of times out. If there was ever a time to give him a break, it's now, before his confidence is completely shot.

5 hours ago, dkw said:

He had a part to play in that 2nd goal but he was not the worst, it was a complete cluster f**k by christensen initially then Rudiger was caught out also. 

I take your point but even when you are a kid first playing competitive games you are told play to the whistle. Throwing his arms up into the air and stopping cos he didn't get a foul called( not for the first time either). He doesn't lose the ball, the rest doesn't happen.  

 

5 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

Doesn't fit the narrative of the day, though, does it?

No narratives, todays game is littered with players either feigning injury or trying to referee the game themselves, when they get caught out don't expect sympathy. Willian in losing the ball as he did caught the whole of the defence on their heals with little time to re adjust. Yes Jon Moss could have given a cheap foul but to be honest the way he had refereed the rest of the game should have suggested to Willian he wasn't going to get the decision. Simple lesson play to the whistle, similar to Alonso feigning injury the other week against ManU that also resulted in a goal. 

 

https://hoofoot.com/?match=Wolves_2_-_1_Chelsea_2018_12_05

Just looking at the goal (5mins 5 secs onwards) and try clicking one frame at a time around the moment Willian got 'fouled' there was a pass on(sarriball) just before he lost it that would have sent us on a counter attack but one thing I hadn't noticed Azpi appears to be pulling his socks up and not looking at the game at the time of dispossession. 

Edited December 6, 20187 yr by charierre

1 hour ago, charierre said:

I take your point but even when you are a kid first playing competitive games you are told play to the whistle. Throwing his arms up into the air and stopping cos he didn't get a foul called( not for the first time either). He doesn't lose the ball, the rest doesn't happen.  

 

No narratives, todays game is littered with players either feigning injury or trying to referee the game themselves, when they get caught out don't expect sympathy. Willian in losing the ball as he did caught the whole of the defence on their heals with little time to re adjust. Yes Jon Moss could have given a cheap foul but to be honest the way he had refereed the rest of the game should have suggested to Willian he wasn't going to get the decision. Simple lesson play to the whistle, similar to Alonso feigning injury the other week against ManU that also resulted in a goal. 

 

https://hoofoot.com/?match=Wolves_2_-_1_Chelsea_2018_12_05

Just looking at the goal (5mins 5 secs onwards) and try clicking one frame at a time around the moment Willian got 'fouled' there was a pass on(sarriball) just before he lost it that would have sent us on a counter attack but one thing I hadn't noticed Azpi appears to be pulling his socks up and not looking at the game at the time of dispossession. 

Willian was stupid, as you say play to the whistle, but that's given as a foul pretty much every time.

 

I think Willian should lose his place in the squad to Hudson-Odoi. I doubt it happens though because the club would prefer to go spend stupid money on a foreign signing like Pulisic to play RW.

Ryan Fraser has a better goals/assist average this season than Willian and Pedro combined.

Hazard 0.82
Fraserinho 0.76
Willian 0.36
Pedro 0.35

1 hour ago, enigma said:

I think Willian should lose his place in the squad to Hudson-Odoi. I doubt it happens though because the club would prefer to go spend stupid money on a foreign signing like Pulisic to play RW.

The club should have sold Willian for £40m and promote Hudson-Odoi to the bench at the start of the season.

Wasted 2 really great chances with 2 really awful first touches. 

Though morata wasted 2 good chances to and Hazard was poor so not solely to blame for our loss.

6 hours ago, enigma said:

I think Willian should lose his place in the squad to Hudson-Odoi. I doubt it happens though because the club would prefer to go spend stupid money on a foreign signing like Pulisic to play RW.

Why do you think it is stupid ? CHO can be a left and CP can right. And given both their age - it may actually work out. I honestly dont have a problem with the club going after Pulisic. A winger set of CHO/Willian/Pedro/Pulisic is awesome. If your argument is that we can use that money to upgrade the striker position or the defender position then i will not disagree but if the club chooses to invest there and also buy Pulisic i will not complain.

6 hours ago, brownindian said:

Why do you think it is stupid ? CHO can be a left and CP can right. And given both their age - it may actually work out. I honestly dont have a problem with the club going after Pulisic. A winger set of CHO/Willian/Pedro/Pulisic is awesome. If your argument is that we can use that money to upgrade the striker position or the defender position then i will not disagree but if the club chooses to invest there and also buy Pulisic i will not complain.

I'm not entirely against Pulisic, but for the money being quoted he's not worth it. We would have to sell to buy, and Willian may not even sell or want to go. Hudson-Odoi could play on the RW tbh with Hazard on the LW. Jadon Sancho has pushed Pulisic out of the Dortmund team by all accounts, and that is a Man City youth product who is 18 years old. If Sancho can make the Dortmund first team, then Hudson-Odoi can make it to our team, especially when looking at our options for the wide forward areas. 

A lot of variables and before we discard Willian it would be interesting to know the Hazard is he going/ staying outcome. Willian is much better on the left and if Hazard is going to leave it would make sense to bring in Pusilic subject to agreeing a fee.

No problem with CHO playing a part yet we need to be careful we do not lose both Hazard and Willian without retaining a premiership level creative outlet. CHO might be that player yet it might not materialise for another two seasons. 

 

On 07/12/2018 at 11:09, Strider6003 said:

A lot of variables and before we discard Willian it would be interesting to know the Hazard is he going/ staying outcome. Willian is much better on the left and if Hazard is going to leave it would make sense to bring in Pusilic subject to agreeing a fee.

No problem with CHO playing a part yet we need to be careful we do not lose both Hazard and Willian without retaining a premiership level creative outlet. CHO might be that player yet it might not materialise for another two seasons. 

Willian a creative outlet? He is awful; 2 goals and 2 assists in 13 PL starts is not what you need in a top 4 team.

If Utd or any team is crazy enough to offer £30m for him, we will be mad not to take the money. His output is on par with Mikhitaryan who isn’t a regular starter for Arsenal.

1 hour ago, ducavis said:

Willian a creative outlet? He is awful; 2 goals and 2 assists in 13 PL starts is not what you need in a top 4 team.

If Utd or any team is crazy enough to offer £30m for him, we will be mad not to take the money. His output is on par with Mikhitaryan who isn’t a regular starter for Arsenal.

His output is on par with N'golo Kante who people keep saying can't attack...

On 06/12/2018 at 14:44, Scott Harris said:

I'm tired of this excuse. We're not scapegoating Willian, it's not like he is the only one getting heavily criticised (Morata has received much more criticism for his performances than any other) the simple fact is that he has been playing like sh*t for a long time now. 3 goals and 4 assists in 22 games is an awful return. He's even playing in a more attacking side and he still can't perform. If anything, it's highlighting more than ever just how average Willian is as an attacking player. 

Willian has proven that Conte was right to use him the way he did, he's a squad player at best.

I fully agree, I love Willian but he has been garbage this season. 

I've said it once, I'll say it twice; Willian has been a good servant for this club, but he is getting on in years, his performances have become patchier over the past 15 months and in general it just looks as if his time here is slowly drawing to a close, bar some sort of renaissance. 

3 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

His output is on par with N'golo Kante who people keep saying can't attack...

And his attitude is on par with Morata’s

He did score a peach of a free kick last night though, pops up with a handy goal occasionally and usually runs his socks off 

but eventually time catches up with us all.............. If the transfer ban threat rears its ugly head again, I'm sure hell be moved on & replaced 

(I can understand Morata getting jip on here, but although frustrating at times think Willy has been overall a good signing,

why only this summer allegedly Manure & Barca were sniffing around)

Edited December 14, 20187 yr by General

I disagree and think he gives an illusion of being a good player by appearing busy. Ironically his best season ever as a footballer was last season when he had 6 goals & 7 assists in 20 starts. In comparison Pedro has 5 goals & 1 assist in 8 starts, Ryan Fraser 4 goals & 7 assists in 16 starts, Son 3 goals & 2 assists in 7 starts, Mahrez 5 goals & 2 assists in 8 starts, Shaqiri 3 goals & 2 assists in 7 starts, Rashford 3 goals & 5 assists in 8 starts. Mind you these are random picks from the top 8. 

Stats wise he is being outperformed by Torreira & Kante. I would be shocked if he matched last seasons output at the end of the season, considering he is seeing more game time in a more attacking setup.

Willian can ghost past a player and threaten another before laying off the ball for someone else to shoot.

His problem for me, is he is not consistent and occasionally lazy. 

If not playing he is certainly an asset on the bench.

Willian should get sponsored or invest in marmite!

I think most whether they admit it or not is a quality player on his day but too often plays well..a bit pants!

I think we're all aware of Willian's limitations. He'll never be a great player. He's having a bloody good season though. Some of you have an idea that you can't shake off and it doesn't allow you to see things for what they are. He's having a good season. I would say Pedro, Willian and Hazard are all having good seasons and are all improved under Sarri. We're doing way better than expected, remember that. 

On 09/11/2018 at 20:59, Davey Baby said:

Against Derby Willian was our best player. I say this firstly because it's true and secondly because he drew a lot of criticism on these boards after that game, which showed me that people's perceptions are skewed. He was excellent against Derby. People banged on about RLC but Willian was far better. There's a reason he starts every game under Sarri, or has started the last 11 or 12 games. He's not so good you need to rest him for the lesser games, like Hazard, but he's not so bad you can leave him out of the games that matter. Until we have someone better he plays, and he'll play against Everton on Sunday.

 

Go on a Derby forum, take a look at what they made of him after their game against us. They were the better side they deserved to win player for player they were better than us, but they're all raving about Willian, saying he was the only player that looked a cut above theirs. They just don't get to see that level of quality against their side. I was amazed that he drew criticism for that game. Some of his plays were excellent.

 

For my money he doesn't do it enough against the big sides. Against small sides he often excels because he's a cut above their level, but against stronger players he doesn't shine in the same way. Sometimes he does, obviously, but not often enough. If he played like he did against Barcelona last season, home and away, consistently, he'd be a great player. When he hits a purple patch, he looks a great player, but he's not a great player because he doesn't do it often enough, he can't produce the sparkle reliably, and that's what you need if you want to be a top side. You need consistent performers. Drogba, Terry, Lampard, Cole, Cech, Ivanovic, these were great players because they were utterly consistent. Sure, they had periods of poor form, like all players, but on the whole they were top performers every week, as Hazard is. Hazard is a great player Willian isn't, we all know that, but when he's on his game, like he was for a brief spell last season, he looks almost as good as Hazard.

 

Now, if you're a creative, or a winger, it's far harder to be consistent. Top wingers are few and far between, really top wingers. I was dismayed we didn't go after Mahrez these last two seasons but people on these boards regularly bemoaned his inconsistency. Magical players that turn it on every week are a rare breed and attract crazy money, because they are the players that change a club's fortunes. Obviously we'd all like that player on the right hand side but good luck getting him. Salah looks to be one unfortunately bit it's taken him a while to get there. Willian will never get there, he'll never have that cutting edge, he'll never have that killer instinct, but he's a good player. He really is a good player.

 

Look at Dembele and Malcom at Barca. They want to sell them. It's easy to say sign this player or that player but you might quickly get frustrated with any new purchase. For me the obvious replacement was Mahrez but I was in a minority. Willian has done well since he's come to Chelsea. On the whole he's done very well. He isn't what we'd all hoped for but he's a lot better than he could have been. I understand the frustration with him but I think he gets a bad press on these boards generally. He's a good player, and he's having a good season, despite what some of you think. He's having a really good season. Not Hazard levels, obviously, but he's playing his part. We're having a good season and he's playing his part.

 

Since he joined us he's played for Mourinho and Conte, two defensive managers, if I can call them that. Pragmatic, cautious managers, shall we say. They don't allow a lot of freedom. Sarri is letting Willian fly a little bit more. I think some of you are fixed in the way you see him and you can't see he's having a good season. He's impressing under a new manager with a different idea of how to play the game.

 

Firstly, Sarri likes possession. If you want possession you need players who can control the ball. Willian gives you that. You get control with him, the problem has always been attacking edge, the problem has always been a killer instinct, the key pass. Sarri demands that too. He wants the ball moved forward quickly and penetratively. He wants decisive attacking football. For me, Willian has done well on that score so far this season, not spectacularly but well and people need to see it. We're only a quarter way through the season and this video was made a few weeks ago, before Derby, where he played excellently, before Palace, where he had a good goal disallowed, before Utd, where he hit the corner from which Rudiger scored, before Burnley where he scored an excellent goal. A game we won 4-0 by the way, without Hazard.

 

He's making runs in behind, he's beating players, he's getting to the touchline and crossing, he's linking well, he's scoring and assisting. He's having a good season folks. It's about time he got his dues. 

 

We're undefeated, just in case any of you were unsure.

 

 

Sorry to quote myself from 6 weeks ago but the video I posted provides a perfect example of what I'm talking about, when I say he's not getting the recognition he deserves or people are too fixed in the way they see him.

 

In that video he creates 3 clear cut chances in our goalless draw against West Ham, which at the time was our most disappointing performance of the season. 3 clear cut chances, against a packed defence, away from home. That's a lot of clear cut chances for one man to provide.

 

Now go on the West Ham match thread and see what people are saying about him. That will tell you an awful lot.