Willian

[atomis]

3 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

Seems none of our managers agree with you, though.

He was good under Jose......and Conte used him perfectly as a sub where his speed damaged everyone, also beacuse our style suited him to a tee. He is older slower and does not seem to suit this passing style. And lets not forget we dont have much options there when Eden is a false 9. Odoi needs more game time imo......at least so we can determine if he has it or not, instead we see Willy every game no matter how good or bad he is.

[strider6004]

I agree Willian is more successful coming off the bench and we could do with another player offering real competition in the wide attacking slot while Hazard is our No.9. 

[BordeauxBlue]

He needs to be replaced IMO.

I've thought that for the better part of three years, save for the odd great performance in ten.

[ForeverCarefree]

On 22/12/2018 at 19:57, ForeverCarefree said:

15 starts in the league and 2 sub appearances.

Gets to take the lion’s share of direct free kicks.

Has two goals.

Not good enough.

17 starts and two sub appearances now and just the two goals.

No goals in his last 9 league games now.

Hopefully we’re in the market for a new winger next month or, as unlikely as it seems, CHO gets a few chances.

[ducavis]

25 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

17 starts and two sub appearances now and just the two goals.

No goals in his last 9 league games now.

Hopefully we’re in the market for a new winger next month or, as unlikely as it seems, CHO gets a few chances.

Joint 77th on the list of top scorers in the league, you just have to laugh when you go through the names ahead of him on the list. 

Can’t wait till someone comes out to tell you he has been unlucky and hit the post 5x this season.

[Ukraine Bolt]

Outscored by Kante this season in the league, who the majority of people have said can’t attack and should be moved to holding mid. Don’t see how Willian can be defended here. 

[yorkleyblue]

I don't see how people can STILL only judge Willian on goals scored when that is clearly not his main function in the team.

But then, what do I know?

Edited December 31, 2018 by yorkleyblue

[DidierDidier]

3 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

I don't see how people can STILL only judge Willian on goals scored when that is clearly not his main function in the team.

But then, what do I know?

Ideally as a winger it would be his main function along with assists. Unfortunately, because he can't consistently produce goals or assists, people are resorting to saying it's not his job. Well actually I'd like a player in one of our three most attacking positions to be able to consistently score goals. Is that too much to ask? or should we just leave it all to Hazard? 

[Skinnedy]

38 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

I don't see how people can STILL only judge Willian on goals scored 

I don't. 

I also form an opinion based on assists and attitude. One of those is subjective, the other is quantitative 

His lack of assists throughout his Chelsea career (5 goals and 4 assists EPL averages for his career) is actually even more staggering. 

I've said it before... he's on pace for career averages. He's not out of form. This is his form. 

Some people are OK with that. Some aren't. 

I fall into the category that I'd like to see more offensive production out of the Wing... and set pieces. 

[ForeverCarefree]

50 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

I don't see how people can STILL only judge Willian on goals scored when that is clearly not his main function in the team.

But then, what do I know?

As one of the three most advanced players on the pitch and someone who takes the majority of our set pieces. If providing goals and assists isn’t his job, whose is it? 

[Munkunku]

2 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

As one of the three most advanced players on the pitch and someone who takes the majority of our set pieces. If providing goals and assists isn’t his job, whose is it? 

Marcos Alonso. 

[Remodez]

1 hour ago, yorkleyblue said:

I don't see how people can STILL only judge Willian on goals scored when that is clearly not his main function in the team.

But then, what do I know?

Even in the most defensive mind teams out there, the winger is there to help chip in with goals and assists. Based off what was seen at Sarri's Napoli, the wingers are there to help chip in with goals and assists.

Even if you are adamant that is not Willian's role, for whatever reason, you have to accept that as the main set piece taker you are expected to chip in with goals and assists.

[Ballack & Blu]

I would when fit give CHO a run and rest Willian, he doesn't add much atm

[atomis]

He cant even take corners ffs.....and yet somehow he keeps taking them. Cant sarri see he just cannot take them? He doesnt train corners our Willy? And yet we expect him to chip in goals etc.....he is a super sub at most and thats how Conte used him to good effect. Could have sold him to utd, we didnt. Possibly a swap with Martial plus Cash, lacked the vision to act so. Could have sold him to barca this summer, said no thanks. When its time to sell a player its time to sell a player. Who can we sell him to now? The latest time was in the summer for good money.......we so lack vision and long term planning. We just dont look ahead. We are like American car makers, plan only 3-4months ahead. The Jap car makers plan years ahead and thus successful.

[big blue]

13 minutes ago, atomis said:

He cant even take corners ffs.....and yet somehow he keeps taking them. Cant sarri see he just cannot take them? He doesnt train corners our Willy? And yet we expect him to chip in goals etc.....he is a super sub at most and thats how Conte used him to good effect. Could have sold him to utd, we didnt. Possibly a swap with Martial plus Cash, lacked the vision to act so. Could have sold him to barca this summer, said no thanks. When its time to sell a player its time to sell a player. Who can we sell him to now? The latest time was in the summer for good money.......we so lack vision and long term planning. We just dont look ahead. We are like American car makers, plan only 3-4months ahead. The Jap car makers plan years ahead and thus successful.

From what I read about the martial Willian swap, was that it was a move mourinho was keen on doing, but the United board didn't want to lose martial. I agree the club make some strangely short sighted decisions, but I doubt martial for Willian was ever seriously on the table. 

Willian is a frustrating player, if he was hitting double digits every season, he would be one of the best in the world. 

He does a decent job, has some great games, and some shockers. He isn't going to get any better though, and we.really need to freshen up the attack.

[atomis]

25 minutes ago, big blue said:

From what I read about the martial Willian swap, was that it was a move mourinho was keen on doing, but the United board didn't want to lose martial. I agree the club make some strangely short sighted decisions, but I doubt martial for Willian was ever seriously on the table. 

Willian is a frustrating player, if he was hitting double digits every season, he would be one of the best in the world. 

He does a decent job, has some great games, and some shockers. He isn't going to get any better though, and we.really need to freshen up the attack.

Who knows maybe we could entice them, his relationship with Jose wasnt good. We didnt even try, cuz somehow the Club values him greatly. Yes he is good here and there but just not good enough game in game out. He has been a very good player overall when he was at his peak, but just not anymore and hasnt for 2 seasons now. Bought for decent money, could have sold him for almost double that this summer..... a win win for us......but declined. We essentially said no thanks to a profit and a no thanks to a younger freasher winger replacement.

[Slojo]

7 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

I don't see how people can STILL only judge Willian on goals scored when that is clearly not his main function in the team.

But then, what do I know?

Massive Willian fan you know that Yorkley, but there's no defending Willian, this season he has been subpar.

Quite simply not good enough and the statistics are there to show for it, even despite that watching him play he hasn't been prolific and he has been bang average too many times. Is that Chelsea standard? I don't think so, he's out of form. 

Willian in my eyes has never been a starter, that's my opinion, I think he's a great impact/squad player, great to have in the side, I think Sarri is starting him too much, I would honestly rather see CHO play over him at this point and that's no exaggeration. 

[EmeraldBlue]

Willian makes a very significant defensive contribution as well as creating havoc upfront. He had on off game against Palace but it was noticeable how they concentrated on our right wing after he went off. Willian has been a great Chelsea player since he's been here and the club have had more than good value in purchasing him.

[Munkunku]

3 minutes ago, EmeraldBlue said:

Willian makes a very significant defensive contribution as well as creating havoc upfront.

There’s no doubting he works hard defensively which is the main reason why most managers favour him. To say he creates havoc upfront is a bit of a reach though.

He doesn’t suit Sarri’s possession based football for me, he’s much more effective in a counter attacking side where he can break at pace and have time/space to do something with the ball. 

[big blue]

3 hours ago, EmeraldBlue said:

Willian makes a very significant defensive contribution as well as creating havoc upfront. He had on off game against Palace but it was noticeable how they concentrated on our right wing after he went off. Willian has been a great Chelsea player since he's been here and the club have had more than good value in purchasing him.

I think palace were just trying to get the ball to zaha, rather than targeting a weakness on our right.

[yorkleyblue]

OK, not going to quote all the responses, but, in my mind, Willian's role is not, and never has been, that of main goal scorer.  His skill set is mainly taking on players and creating space and time for the main strikers. I'll accept that his free-kicks are randomly piss-poor and very good, but, apart from several incredibly good goals cutting on from the left, he really isn't there primarily as a goal scorer, regardless of how much you all believe that he is or should be.  I don't even consider him a winger, as such, he is an attacking midfielder, and has been used as one consistently by all our managers in his time here.

As you are all aware, I have never tried to maintain the he is some sort of world-class super-star, but I do get hacked off with all the standard cut-and-paste Willian-bashing that occurs in here regradless of his actual performance in any given match.  He nearly always gets a standing ovation from the actual match-going crowd, both home and away, and I just feel that some people in here are sitting, fingers poised for the slightest little mistake, so they can post their snappy "willian is sh*te" insight.  FFS, 1 minute and 8 seconds into a match the other week before the first one was posted.  We'd hardly fecking kicked off.

Any road up, some of you have your opinions, I have mine, so it's probably best left at that.

It was the same for Mikel, by the way, and is getting that way for Alonso, too.

[yorkleyblue]

4 hours ago, EmeraldBlue said:

Willian makes a very significant defensive contribution as well as creating havoc upfront. He had on off game against Palace but it was noticeable how they concentrated on our right wing after he went off. Willian has been a great Chelsea player since he's been here and the club have had more than good value in purchasing him.

If you say stuff like that, someone will come up with an unrelated reason why that occurred and probably point out that Willian's contribution to our defensive shaope doesn't exist, or something like that.  Oh, they already did.

Never mind.

[Munkunku]

4 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

OK, not going to quote all the responses, but, in my mind, Willian's role is not, and never has been, that of main goal scorer.

———

He nearly always gets a standing ovation from the actual match-going crowd, both home and away

Nobody is saying he’s suppose to be making and scoring 40 goals a season, more that for a player who is suppose to be an attacking player who takes a majority of set-pieces his overall contribution to us getting goals is piss-poor. I also think his first touch can be dreadful and constantly lets him down. 

I’m part of the actual match-going crowd and I think he’s bang average with the capability to produce an occasional world class performance. 

[strider6004]

On the MOTD highlights he looked exciting hits the woodwork and shoots forcing the keeper making a save and producing a corner.

Notice he has hit the woodwork several times this season yet while we have other injuries he is a nailed on starter for me.

[JMaher94]

7 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

If you say stuff like that, someone will come up with an unrelated reason why that occurred and probably point out that Willian's contribution to our defensive shaope doesn't exist, or something like that.  Oh, they already did.

Never mind.

Players with more goals than Willian in the league this season:

N’golo Kanté, Shane Duffy, Callum Paterson, Ashley Barnes, Lucas Digne, James Tarkowski, Matt Doherty, Jose Holebas & Jeff Schlupp.

Regardless of what your opinion is of Willian, that isn't acceptable for a player starting in a top team pretty much every game. Most of the players that I've listed are defenders for mid/lower table sides.