Double post.

Edited July 25, 20196 yr by Scott Harris

One year extension. Glad the club didn't cave and give him more. I'm not surprised Willian accepted.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea/chelsea-winger-willian-agrees-contract-extension-until-2021-a4198141.html

Means he has two years left on his deal ffs. Hope we can find a buyer next summer.

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Means he has two years left on his deal ffs. Hope we can find a buyer next summer.

The good news is twofold though:

1.  We have 2 excellent young wingers who will push for playing time

2.  We have a manager who is willing to play young players

Yeah, I would prefer to move on from Willian next summer, too, but if not, I think it's very likely he gets phased out.

*Sigh* ah well so long as he is backup to CHO, Pulisic and Pedro is a good move.

17 hours ago, mwblue10 said:

The good news is twofold though:

1.  We have 2 excellent young wingers who will push for playing time

2.  We have a manager who is willing to play young players

Yeah, I would prefer to move on from Willian next summer, too, but if not, I think it's very likely he gets phased out.

That leaves a miserable Willian in the dressing room kicking up a fuss though. We saw what he was like under previous managers when not getting consistent game time.

2 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

That leaves a miserable Willian in the dressing room kicking up a fuss though. We saw what he was like under previous managers when not getting consistent game time.

Fair point, he does seem to turn into a sourpuss when anything slightly goes against him.

His performances are about the same level as Pedro's, but Pedro gets nothing like the same level of stick. 

7 minutes ago, Dixons said:

His performances are about the same level as Pedro's, but Pedro gets nothing like the same level of stick. 

Pedro takes plenty of stick, but the difference is he outwardly shows a better attitude, so the fans don't turn on him as much.

15 minutes ago, Dixons said:

His performances are about the same level as Pedro's, but Pedro gets nothing like the same level of stick. 

Willian: 198 league appearances, 28 goals, 26 assists

Pedro: 126 league appearances, 28 goals, 15 assists

So in 72 more league appearances than Pedro, Willian's contribution amounts to 11 more assists. Remembering that he's allowed to take almost every free-kick and corner when on the pitch I think it's fair to say that their contributions aren't really comparable. 

When Pedro's bad, he stinks up the joint, no question. But then that's mainly because he's a player that always tries to directly influence things in attack, taking responsibility for taking on shots, trying to beat his man etc. When those things don't come off for a whole game he can look pretty terrible. 

But when it comes down to a straight choice between Willian and Pedro? It's Pedro every time for me. He's an attacker that's good at attacking and now more than ever that's what we need. 

Edited July 26, 20196 yr by ForeverCarefree

On 25/07/2019 at 06:57, RIP Mourinho said:

Means he has two years left on his deal ffs. Hope we can find a buyer next summer.

I think the extension gives Chelsea the opportunity to sell next season as you say. While we won't get the 60 million Barcelona were supposedly offering, there are several mid table-esque clubs in the top five leagues that would take him on. I say that but I'm not taking into account his wages and age and demand for playing time which could easily turn off some mid table clubs that would rather have a younger player.

I feel like I see a plan currently at Chelsea for the first time in a while. Now, they could throw that completely out the window when we are allowed to make transfers next summer and overpay for squad depth as they have been doing lately. But, I feel like now with Frank at the helm, maybe they've realized that there needs to be a distinct strategy for everything they do with a common goal at the end. 

10 minutes ago, mwblue10 said:

Pedro takes plenty of stick, but the difference is he outwardly shows a better attitude, so the fans don't turn on him as much.

Some people just have sulky looking resting faces. For a number of seasons Willian's  attiitude and work rate has been as good as anyones.  In fact, there were times when he'd have given better performances if he'd stopped running around like a demented, headless chicken.

I thought everybody knew that comparing simple statistics is n extremely limited way of comparing players. Except when it comes to Willian and then it's fair game, apparantly. It might work in Football Manager but that's not how real managers pick players.

I'm pretty sure the number one, subconscious reason why people are more sympathetic towards Pedro and hostile toward Willian is because Pedro plays with a smile on his face while Willian usually has a face like a slapped arse. If he'd just cheer up a bit I'm sure he'd be a fan's favourite in no time.

12 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Willian: 198 league appearances, 28 goals, 26 assists

Pedro: 126 league appearances, 28 goals, 15 assists

So in 72 more league appearances than Pedro, Willian's contribution amounts to 11 more assists. Remembering that he's allowed to take almost every free-kick and corner when on the pitch I think it's fair to say that their contributions aren't really comparable. 

When Pedro's bad, he stinks up the joint, no question. But then that's mainly because he's a player that always tries to directly influence things in attack, taking responsibility for taking on shots, trying to beat his man etc. When those things don't come off for a whole game he can look pretty terrible. 

But when it comes down to a straight choice between Willian and Pedro? It's Pedro every time for me. He's an attacker that's good at attacking and now more than ever that's what we need. 

Fair points, and if i had to pick one i too would go for Pedro most of the time. But i think most of us agree they both need upgrading on now, so hopefully CHO and Pulasic can step up and be those players.  It should make such a dfference having fresh, young legs on the  wings.

12 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Willian: 198 league appearances, 28 goals, 26 assists

Pedro: 126 league appearances, 28 goals, 15 assists

So in 72 more league appearances than Pedro, Willian's contribution amounts to 11 more assists. Remembering that he's allowed to take almost every free-kick and corner when on the pitch I think it's fair to say that their contributions aren't really comparable. 

When Pedro's bad, he stinks up the joint, no question. But then that's mainly because he's a player that always tries to directly influence things in attack, taking responsibility for taking on shots, trying to beat his man etc. When those things don't come off for a whole game he can look pretty terrible. 

But when it comes down to a straight choice between Willian and Pedro? It's Pedro every time for me. He's an attacker that's good at attacking and now more than ever that's what we need. 

Fair points, and if i had to pick one i too would go for Pedro most of the time. But i think most of us agree they both need upgrading on now, so hopefully CHO and Pulasic can step up and be those players.  It should make such a dfference having fresh, young legs on the  wings.

10 minutes ago, bluedave said:

I thought everybody knew that comparing simple statistics is n extremely limited way of comparing players. Except when it comes to Willian and then it's fair game, apparantly. It might work in Football Manager but that's not how real managers pick players.

Attackers, more so than any other position on the pitch, can have their contributions quantified by the number of goals and assists they provide because it is their primary purpose. 

6 minutes ago, Dixons said:

Some people just have sulky looking resting faces. For a number of seasons Willian's  attiitude and work rate has been as good as anyones.  In fact, there were times when he'd have given better performances if he'd stopped running around like a demented, headless chicken.

I agree with this. Willian has been incredibly frustrating for much of his time with us, and there's no denying his end product in terms of goals and assists is way below what it should be. I've rarely doubted his commitment and workrate, and i've also felt that he often plays too much at 100 miles an hour, when he should rely more on his brain, vision and skill. He has looked increasingly stale and lacking in creativity, and I think he would benefit from a proper break from playing, but he never gets one.

I am vaguely, maybe irrationally, optimistic that Hazard's departure might see us getting more out of him. I bloody hope so, because we are sure going to miss Eden.

38 minutes ago, Dixons said:

 

 

 

Edited July 26, 20196 yr by Backbiter
double post

2 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Willian: 198 league appearances, 28 goals, 26 assists

Pedro: 126 league appearances, 28 goals, 15 assists

So in 72 more league appearances than Pedro, Willian's contribution amounts to 11 more assists. Remembering that he's allowed to take almost every free-kick and corner when on the pitch I think it's fair to say that their contributions aren't really comparable. 

When Pedro's bad, he stinks up the joint, no question. But then that's mainly because he's a player that always tries to directly influence things in attack, taking responsibility for taking on shots, trying to beat his man etc. When those things don't come off for a whole game he can look pretty terrible. 

But when it comes down to a straight choice between Willian and Pedro? It's Pedro every time for me. He's an attacker that's good at attacking and now more than ever that's what we need. 

When you add up their total goals and put context into it, it's even worse for Willian.

Willian = 292 games and 52 goals.

Pedro = 183 games and 41 goals.

We also need to remember that we signed them at different times in their careers. Willian just turned 25 when we signed him, just as he was entering his peak years. Pedro was signed at the age of 28 and had his peak years in his early to mid to 20's.  So we have had a past his peak Pedro and a peak Willian and still Pedro has been better.

20 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

and still Pedro has been better.

when Conte went 5-3-1 (or 8-1-1 as I called it), Neither Willian and Pedro had a spot in the team. It was telling how each of them handled it.

Willian's output has been similar to what it was at his previous clubs, so expecting more out of him is simply not going to happen ... this is his level of productivity when it comes to goals and assists.

For some additional perspective, my memory recalls that most people used to complain that Kalou wasn't good enough, and yet even his stats are better than Willian's  ?

Willian 292 appearances, 52 goals

Kalou 254 appearances, 61 goals

Let's hope CHO comes back firing on all cylinders and keeps him out of the team.

I loved Kalou, he was so sh*t but his little face would always light up when a ball bounced off his arse and went in. 

Makes sense to extend his deal, as i think clubs will still pay for him in 12 months time.

Pedro and Willian are both horribly inconsistent, but both have had some big moments and played parts in league winning sides. 

I think this should be the last season for both though.

I feel like the only thing missing with the make up of this squad right now, is star quality in that attacking band, and consistent match winners. 

We have potential in CHO, Pulisic, and Abraham, but that would be the one area i would hope we spend big on next summer, maybe on dembele or sancho, or whoever else bursts onto the scene this season. 

11 hours ago, big blue said:

Makes sense to extend his deal, as i think clubs will still pay for him in 12 months time.

Pedro and Willian are both horribly inconsistent, but both have had some big moments and played parts in league winning sides. 

I think this should be the last season for both though.

I feel like the only thing missing with the make up of this squad right now, is star quality in that attacking band, and consistent match winners. 

We have potential in CHO, Pulisic, and Abraham, but that would be the one area i would hope we spend big on next summer, maybe on dembele or sancho, or whoever else bursts onto the scene this season. 

When was Willian's last BIG moment? A game against Barca a couple of seasons ago that we didn't even win? a freekick back in 1015?

7 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

When was Willian's last BIG moment? A game against Barca a couple of seasons ago that we didn't even win? a freekick back in 1015?

Scored a great winner at home to newcastle last season. 

In conte's title winning season, he scored a big goal against city, and a brace against stoke to equal the win record. 

I agree he shouldve been sold a couple of years ago, but with the ban, im sure he can still play a part this season, and now we have extended his contract, we can cash in on him next summer. Even if we only get £15m for him, it will still be a good return for him.