17 hours ago, Richard P said:

Jamie carragher said on Monday night football he would have subbed him saying he was awful 

Easy target for a prick, former Liverpool CB pundit, but he's probably right.

Wouldn't be the first time in recent years that this has happened - the year Jose got the sack, Matic was subbed on at halftime against Southampton and then subbed off after 28 minutes.

16 minutes ago, mwblue10 said:

Easy target for a prick, former Liverpool CB pundit, but he's probably right.

Wouldn't be the first time in recent years that this has happened - the year Jose got the sack, Matic was subbed on at halftime against Southampton and then subbed off after 28 minutes.

Got his attention too... Matic loved playing for Mourinho. Matic is a proper pro, and he got the move he asked for. 

10 minutes ago, Skinnedy said:

Got his attention too... Matic loved playing for Mourinho. Matic is a proper pro, and he got the move he asked for. 

I'm not sure Willian would react in similar fashion, so it's likely a good thing Frank didn't pull the same move.

Me when Willian came on and misplaced a simple pass Sunday:

Are you guys really surprised? I would have expected nothing less from Willian at this point. I was casually watching the game when he came on but realized it was him taking corners immediately when they didn’t get past the first man. 

1 hour ago, seanlu13913 said:

Are you guys really surprised? I would have expected nothing less from Willian at this point. I was casually watching the game when he came on but realized it was him taking corners immediately when they didn’t get past the first man. 

Every time willian coming on 

willian taking yet another corner

On 20/08/2019 at 20:27, Richard P said:

Jamie carragher said on Monday night football he would have subbed him saying he was awful 

Just goes to show how stupid Carragher is ... we'd already made all our subs ....

8 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Just goes to show how stupid Carragher is ... we'd already made all our subs ....

He actually said if Frank has another sub he would have subbed him. 

Jesus, the lad was half fit, give him a break...

Saying that, I'm not particularly surprised, I suppose with Mikel, Ivanovic, Matic and Oscar all gone he must be the only scapegoat left standing. I predict Azpilicueta will be next...

19 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

Jesus, the lad was half fit, give him a break...

Saying that, I'm not particularly surprised, I suppose with Mikel, Ivanovic, Matic and Oscar all gone he must be the only scapegoat left standing. I predict Azpilicueta will be next...

Then why put him in at all?  

Just now, Boston Blue said:

Then why put him in at all?  

Our only other two options in wide areas were already on the pitch (one of them having played 300 minutes in 8 days), the third has been out with a long-term injury since April.

Unless we are comfortable with the idea of shoehorning in Barkley as a long-term option, we need Willian match fit as soon as possible. As the old adage goes, the best way to get match fit is to play matches...

6 hours ago, PloKoon13 said:

Jesus, the lad was half fit, give him a break...

Saying that, I'm not particularly surprised, I suppose with Mikel, Ivanovic, Matic and Oscar all gone he must be the only scapegoat left standing. I predict Azpilicueta will be next...

Difference between a scapegoat and a player that has generally disappointed for the majority of most seasons he's been here. Now throw in his terrible attitude and he's a detriment to the squad. 

6 hours ago, PloKoon13 said:

Jesus, the lad was half fit, give him a break...

Saying that, I'm not particularly surprised, I suppose with Mikel, Ivanovic, Matic and Oscar all gone he must be the only scapegoat left standing. I predict Azpilicueta will be next...

Willian isn't a scapegoat, he's just consistently poor. If the game last weekend was a one off, then fans would just say he had a poor game and move on, but Willian has performances like this a lot. Willian failing to complete simple passes cleanly, slowing down attacks, throwing his arms in the air and failing to beat the first man from a corner isn't something new, he's been doing this throughout his whole career with us. We have been carrying him for years now.

5 hours ago, PloKoon13 said:

Our only other two options in wide areas were already on the pitch (one of them having played 300 minutes in 8 days), the third has been out with a long-term injury since April.

Unless we are comfortable with the idea of shoehorning in Barkley as a long-term option, we need Willian match fit as soon as possible. As the old adage goes, the best way to get match fit is to play matches...

We were worse when he came on.  Anyone who would have tried to make an effort in that position would have been a better choice.  Obviously Frank couldn't have known he was putting someone on who wasn't even going to try.  

I have been a Willian supporter in the past...….but that performance last week was inexcusable.

5 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Willian isn't a scapegoat, he's just consistently poor. If the game last weekend was a one off, then fans would just say he had a poor game and move on, but Willian has performances like this a lot. Willian failing to complete simple passes cleanly, slowing down attacks, throwing his arms in the air and failing to beat the first man from a corner isn't something new, he's been doing this throughout his whole career with us. We have been carrying him for years now.

A player is going to have a poor performance now & then.  But his total lack of effort is the one thing he can control, and he chose to not make an effort at all.

If he wasn't fit enough to make an effort, he should have told the manager he wasn't fit.

 

14 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

Willian isn't a scapegoat, he's just consistently poor. If the game last weekend was a one off, then fans would just say he had a poor game and move on, but Willian has performances like this a lot. Willian failing to complete simple passes cleanly, slowing down attacks, throwing his arms in the air and failing to beat the first man from a corner isn't something new, he's been doing this throughout his whole career with us. We have been carrying him for years now.

Don't get me wrong, @Scott Harris, last week's "performance" was utterly abysmal, and probably the worst we have ever seen from him or nearly anyone else.  But when you have people posting their "Oh FFS Willian" posts in the match thread immediately after he's come on, and before he's actually done anything, and when there is a poster who has clearly sat down with a crayon and paper and written down every single thing that Willian did wrong, minute by minute, just to be able to virtue signal his dislike for the player in a detailed post, its very difficult to accept the notion that Willian isn't being made a scapegoat by some people.  That and the Mikel-style repeptitions of the fallacy of "he always hits the first man at corners".  If anything, the opposite is the case and mostly the corners seem to fly over the penalty area beyond any of our players.  Not saying that is good, just that the "always hits the first man" trope is just lazy and wrong.

You know I have defended Willian many times in here, and still think that there is just an unwarranted dislike for the player from some people, but ultimately, if there was ANYTHING at all in the rumoured offers from Barcelona or elsewhere, we should have ripped their arms off.  His time has passed. He made valuable contributions in the past, and possibly could in the future, but this is the new Chelsea, so I'm happy to see less of him in the team.  I still won't boo the bugger or cheer if he gets injured, mind.  Never could see how booing your own players was beneficial to anyone.

9 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

But when you have people posting their "Oh FFS Willian" posts in the match thread immediately after he's come on, and before he's actually done anything, and when there is a poster who has clearly sat down with a crayon and paper and written down every single thing that Willian did wrong, minute by minute, just to be able to virtue signal his dislike for the player in a detailed post, its very difficult to accept the notion that Willian isn't being made a scapegoat by some people. 

If people had to wait for Willian to do anything before they complained they’d never get the chance!

People are just fed up, he was suppose to be a game changer, a creative player when he was signed. He’s never really managed to live up to that and now with Eden gone we really need him to start performing. 

Better this week in a short cameo. First involvement was a through run to the corner which was cut off, so he sprinted back for cover.. Better effort, pressing, body language... All of it... 

2 hours ago, Munkworth said:

If people had to wait for Willian to do anything before they complained they’d never get the chance!

People are just fed up, he was suppose to be a game changer, a creative player when he was signed. He’s never really managed to live up to that and now with Eden gone we really need him to start performing. 

True, mate.  I just get pissed off when some posters have an obvious agenda, regardless of what the bugger does.  I am convinced that some people have just got a Word document of disparaging remarks and they cut and paste those irrespective.  That and writing down every little misplaced pass and failed tackle, then presenting those like a primary school report...... "and then he........ and then he....... and then he.......! " and so on.  Mikel used to get it, Morata got it (justifiably, mostly), and it's mostly just people need a scapegoat to take it out on.

Don’t forget Torres didn’t get many goals for us because Malouda never passed to him too!

24 minutes ago, Skinnedy said:

Better this week in a short cameo. First involvement was a through run to the corner which was cut off, so he sprinted back for cover.. Better effort, pressing, body language... All of it... 

I too liked his effort more today than last weekend.  I think Frank has an opportunity to turn him into a super sub, for lack of a better term, similar to how Conte utilized Cesc late in games.  Bring him on and if he brings good effort, he should improve the team for the last 15-20 minutes.

Just now, mwblue10 said:

I too liked his effort more today than last weekend.  I think Frank has an opportunity to turn him into a super sub, for lack of a better term, similar to how Conte utilized Cesc late in games.  Bring him on and if he brings good effort, he should improve the team for the last 15-20 minutes.

Then when we pick up some silverware at the end of the season he can block Frank out with emojis!

27 minutes ago, mwblue10 said:

I too liked his effort more today than last weekend.  I think Frank has an opportunity to turn him into a super sub, for lack of a better term, similar to how Conte utilized Cesc late in games.  Bring him on and if he brings good effort, he should improve the team for the last 15-20 minutes.

That's actually how Conte used Willian. Not coincidentally, he had his two best scoring seasons for Conte. 

2 hours ago, Skinnedy said:

That's actually how Conte used Willian. Not coincidentally, he had his two best scoring seasons for Conte. 

I always found it odd that Willian hated the one manager that got the best out of him.