And whose fault is that? Is he picking himself?

And whose fault is that? Is he picking himself?

That's a good point.

Guys like Jose, Carlo ect have picked Mikel over others and you hold them up as the best in the buisness.

It's just he looks a very poor player when we are not defending for our lives. I always think we are going to concede whenever he get's the bib off and get's warmed up to come on.

Maybe he's Zidane in training or something but he does very little when I see him to justify his place.

Just curious if you posters that are Mikel's judgment team have read what the manager has to say about his performance last night,

guess that is why they are not making a good living being a pro football manager.

It's just he looks a very poor player when we are not defending for our lives.  

 

In which case I don't really see what the problem is considering that this season his primary role has been to come off the bench while we are defending a lead...

In which case I don't really see what the problem is considering that this season his primary role has been to come off the bench while we are defending a lead...

 

Which has worked so well....

In which case I don't really see what the problem is considering that this season his primary role has been to come off the bench while we are defending a lead...

And we tend to concede like in the UNited and City games.

Not Mikels fault but as soon as he comes on it's clear we are sitting back and the other team get's a lift.

I'd rather he didn't come on as we are a far better team than previous seasons in terms of keeping hold of the ball with guys like Cesc, Matic, Hazard ect.

It's the managers call though and Mikel is just doing what he is being told.

In which case I don't really see what the problem is considering that this season his primary role has been to come off the bench while we are defending a lead...

 

To be honest even when he has come off the bench for us he has done nothing useful for about 2 seasons now. It's just a waste of time starting him or bringing him off the bench right now, he offers absolutely nothing. Ake, a guy who has nearly a decade less of football under him, was in a totally different league to Mikel last night, everything Ake was doing was better than anything Mikel was doing.

 

It's that bad with Mikel that there is a whole thread dedicated to him scoring 1 goal. And when he puts in an odd block here and there people will say he has been amazing and vote him MOTM when really he hasn't been that great at all. We are desperate for him to do well, but getting a great game out of him is a very rare thing to see.

Edited October 29, 201411 yr by Scott Harris

Just curious if you posters that are Mikel's judgment team have read what the manager has to say about his performance last night,

guess that is why they are not making a good living being a pro football manager.

 

I would take that with a pinch of salt to be honest. Mourinho is not going to slag off any of his players.

 

Anyone who watched that game last night and honestly thought Mikel did okay, well, I don't care who they are, they know f**k all about football!!!

The Torres of midfield is a good way of putting it in that Mikel seems a decent bloke and has been part of us winning a number of things (much more than Torres) but individually he doesn’t seem to offer a great deal. Of course I am not downplaying his efforts in the CL final which I thought was his best performance in a blue shirt and it couldn’t have happened in a better game or occasion and for that I thank him.

It’s just 9/10 he doesn’t seem to offer anything or do anything to justify being here and getting game time. I’ve never really taken to him but it seems as the years have went on he has stagnated to the point where there is just no improvement in him as a player. The way we are going forward as a club I can’t see the place for Mikel as there are far better defensive minded midfielders about who would cost significantly less than Mikel.

Last night was just so frustrating seeing him stroll about while young Ake was chasing, blocking and busting a gut to impress and to a point make up for the lack of work Mikel got through. That’s just not good enough and if someone like that is keeping promising guys like Ake out the team then I worry.

It's that bad with Mikel that there is a whole thread dedicated to him scoring 1 goal. 

 

Which was a joke ofc, then just morphed into a general discussion thread. Just some humour nothing serious about it.

And we tend to concede like in the UNited and City games.

Not Mikels fault but as soon as he comes on it's clear we are sitting back and the other team get's a lift.

I'd rather he didn't come on as we are a far better team than previous seasons in terms of keeping hold of the ball with guys like Cesc, Matic, Hazard ect.

It's the managers call though and Mikel is just doing what he is being told.

I think it's more of Mourinho's mentality when we are leading in away game against good opponents. Whenever we are 1-0 up against good oppositon or away from home and the clock is 60-65mins past it we just call Mikel and sit back and let the opposition attack us in full flow and create pressure on our team and hence we concede. We really need to change this approach...

 

Although it has been highly successful last season but this season we have already lost 4 points because of that and against a 10 men CITY!

Edited October 29, 201411 yr by CFCBlue12

Always the first player I sell in FIFA

 

I don't know why but I found this so funny.

Aké wasn't in a completely different league, he was playing a completely different role. I haven't heard anyone dismissing Matic's contribution to the team for not being as incisive a passer as Fabregas, nor have I seen anyone write Oscar off as completely useless because his dribbling isn't as good as Hazard's*...

 

 

I'm not sure where this idea of Mikel not doing his job off the bench has come from, let's look at the evidence, his appearances this season:

 

He came off the bench against Sporting Lisbon and Burnley and we saw out our lead without conceding. He came off the bench against Arsenal and Aston Villa and we increased our lead without conceding. He came off the bench against Everton and increased our lead but conceded; considering the hectic nature of that game, and also the fact that he engineered a fantastic goal for Costa, we cannot blame him for that. Against City he came on at 0-0 and the game ended 1-1.

 

The ONLY game this season during which Mikel has come on to the ostensible detriment of our scoreline has been against Man Utd. If we wrack our brains we might remember a slightly controversial incident involving Branislav Ivanovic and a certain fat man (whichever of the two you choose to blame) being responsible for that one.

 

When Mikel comes off the bench, we tend to preserve our lead. Mourinho brings him on because he plays that role better than anyone else in the squad. Frankly I am uninterested in the witch hunt to paint him as incompetent when there is an deafening silence of evidence to support it. This season Mikel has created more goals than he has been responsible for conceding, yet the popular perception never seems to change. At the end of this season I hope to God that Mikel is clutching another Premier League winner's medal - he will have damn well earned it.

 

 

(*technically I have but never supported by an argument I deemed credible)

The games against Arsenal and Villa were at home. So it was obvious we'll try to score more.

The games against Arsenal and Villa were at home. So it was obvious we'll try to score more.

 

Well I'm not saying he was necessarily responsible for the additional goals. My argument was that seeing the number 12 come up on the fourth official's board isn't necessarily the death knell for Chelsea in the way that a lot of people in this thread seem to think it is.

Matic is actually a very good passer of the ball and has picked up quite a few assists, he also regularly makes driving runs through the midfield, has a significantly better scoring record and at the very least, his first thought is to always look forward and start an attack before the defence gets set.

 

I cannot say the same for Mikel on any of those points.

Well I'm not saying he was necessarily responsible for the additional goals. My argument was that seeing the number 12 come up on the fourth official's board isn't necessarily the death knell for Chelsea in the way that a lot of people in this thread seem to think it is.

 

In most cases it is sadly.

Matic is actually a very good passer of the ball and has picked up quite a few assists, he also regularly makes driving runs through the midfield, has a significantly better scoring record and at the very least, his first thought is to always look forward and start an attack before the defence gets set.

 

I cannot say the same for Mikel on any of those points.

 

Can't argue with any of that - Matic's movement and contribution to the attack are far ahead of Mikel's. That said, I wouldn't rely on him as a creative force in our midfield, more an added perk to his brilliant work as a DM.

 

 

In most cases it is sadly.

 

For example...

 

When Mikel comes off the bench, we tend to preserve our lead. 

 

But we shouldn't confuse correlation with causation.

 

When Mikel is introduced, it seems to be accompanied by a change in tactics. We sit deeper, we don't press so high up the pitch and we don't break with as many numbers. If you employ more defensive tactics then you would expect to be more solid defensively, regardless of one or two personnel changes no?

 

I think we need to separate the introduction of Mikel when we're leading from the introduction of new tactics at that same moment. I think most of us are fine with someone doing 'the Mikel role' of making us more secure when we are winning and shutting the match down.

 

We just don't really want Mikel to be the person doing it.

I think it's just a case of mikel needing to do much more when he's on the field. If he would put some tackles in, run after the opposition to gain possession again after he's given the ball away, intercept passes etc, then one would have no reason to criticise him; it's just every time he's on the field he looks like he can't be bothered, meanwhile everyone else around him is working their socks off to regain possession. Balotelli gets chastised for his work rate and rightly so, so mikel should get the same criticism. However, mikel's job requires a player to have a high work rate and good positional sense. Even when mikel does get into correct positions, his lacklustre attitude to get the ball is frustrating.

Edited October 29, 201411 yr by enigma

Matic is actually a very good passer of the ball and has picked up quite a few assists, he also regularly makes driving runs through the midfield, has a significantly better scoring record and at the very least, his first thought is to always look forward and start an attack before the defence gets set.

 

I cannot say the same for Mikel on any of those points.

 

Mikel and Matic are so far apart in terms of quality that it really is amazing that we stuck with him for so many years. We talk about all these managers who picked him but you have to wonder just how hamstrung they were by having him in the team.

 

I think that Mourinho's actions spoke louder than words last night - against Shrewsbury Town when we were looking for a winner, Mikel (and Salah) were replaced. This notion that he's in any way, shape or form a reliable 'back-up' for Matic is dead. 

 

I also think Nathan Ake is already a more imposing presence than Mikel. I think he's better both defensively and with the ball at his feet, although I've thought that since his appearances against Rubin Kazan and Everton under the FSW.

Edited October 29, 201411 yr by Blue Daze

Aké wasn't in a completely different league, he was playing a completely different role. I haven't heard anyone dismissing Matic's contribution to the team for not being as incisive a passer as Fabregas, nor have I seen anyone write Oscar off as completely useless because his dribbling isn't as good as Hazard's*...

 

 

I'm not sure where this idea of Mikel not doing his job off the bench has come from, let's look at the evidence, his appearances this season:

 

He came off the bench against Sporting Lisbon and Burnley and we saw out our lead without conceding. He came off the bench against Arsenal and Aston Villa and we increased our lead without conceding. He came off the bench against Everton and increased our lead but conceded; considering the hectic nature of that game, and also the fact that he engineered a fantastic goal for Costa, we cannot blame him for that. Against City he came on at 0-0 and the game ended 1-1.

 

The ONLY game this season during which Mikel has come on to the ostensible detriment of our scoreline has been against Man Utd. If we wrack our brains we might remember a slightly controversial incident involving Branislav Ivanovic and a certain fat man (whichever of the two you choose to blame) being responsible for that one.

 

When Mikel comes off the bench, we tend to preserve our lead. Mourinho brings him on because he plays that role better than anyone else in the squad. Frankly I am uninterested in the witch hunt to paint him as incompetent when there is an deafening silence of evidence to support it. This season Mikel has created more goals than he has been responsible for conceding, yet the popular perception never seems to change. At the end of this season I hope to God that Mikel is clutching another Premier League winner's medal - he will have damn well earned it.

 

 

(*technically I have but never supported by an argument I deemed credible)

 

Against Villa, Arsenal, Sporting and Burnley he never actually offered us anything more than what we already had. Even without Mikel we never looked like we were going to concede a goal against Burnley, Arsenal, Villa or Sporting. Also, just because we increased our lead when Mikel came on against Arsenal and Villa it doesn't mean he was the main reason why. Scoring another against the both of them looked likely far before Mikel came on, especially against Villa.

I think it's just a case of mikel needing to do much more when he's on the field. If he would put some tackles in, run after the opposition to gain possession again after he's given the ball away, intercept passes etc, then one would have no reason to criticise him; it's just every time he's on the field he looks like he can't be bothered, meanwhile everyone else around him is working their socks off to regain possession. Balotelli gets chastised for his work rate and rightly so, so mikel should get the same criticism. However, mikel's job requires a player to have a high work rate and good positional sense. Even when mikel does get into correct positions, his lacklustre attitude to get the ball is frustrating.

 

That has been the case with Mikel since forever, he has no aggression and he is poor off the ball, If anything he doesn't get criticized enough for some of the shocking performances he puts in with very little effort.

But we shouldn't confuse correlation with causation.

 

When Mikel is introduced, it seems to be accompanied by a change in tactics. We sit deeper, we don't press so high up the pitch and we don't break with as many numbers. If you employ more defensive tactics then you would expect to be more solid defensively, regardless of one or two personnel changes no?

 

I absolutely agree - it can be a very harmful mistake to make.

 

The argument made in this thread was that Mikel's introduction tends to lead to us dropping points. I agree that the execution of more conservative tactics leads us not to concede, however Mikel is no drag on that, in fact he carries out the strategy well, which is why the manager continues to ask him to do it. If there was a correlation between Mikel coming on and us dropping points the argument would hold water, but there isn't, so it doesn't.

Against Villa, Arsenal, Sporting and Burnley he never actually offered us anything more than what we already had. Even without Mikel we never looked like we were going to concede a goal against Burnley, Arsenal, Villa or Sporting. Also, just because we increased our lead when Mikel came on against Arsenal and Villa it doesn't mean he was the main reason why. Scoring another against the both of them looked likely far before Mikel came on, especially against Villa.

 

I didn't credit him with being responsible for us scoring more goals (except against Everton), all I have shown and claimed to show is that Mikel being on the pitch doesn't necessarily lead to a drop-off in performance, a complete neutralising of our attacking capabilities or increased defensive vulnerability. He is an extremely competent player who performs the role asked of him extremely well, and the results back that up.