I can't think of a team in the top-12 in this country that he would get into because he's such a limited player now. Maybe I'm being harsh so I'll look at the table....Ok, Villa maybe and perhaps Palace although neither could afford his wages.

Hyperbole at it's finest. 

Even if that's true not a single person can give me a decent reason why HE is the one singled out. There's always allusions to scapegoating, being a whipping boy but no-one can say why.

 

Kalou, Malouda, Torres all gone. So is Luiz. 

 

20 minute sub appearance got you and others in here for another crack at the guy who is hardly playing.

 

You tell me...

Edited October 3, 201411 yr by Stim

Blue Daze - Out of interest what other better players in his position would you want that would be happy to sit on the bench and be a backup?

Kalou, Malouda, Torres all gone. So is Luiz.

20 minute sub appearance got you and others in here for another crack at the guy who is hardly playing.

Thank f**k he's not starting

A scapegoat for what?

 

Even if that's true not a single person can give me a decent reason why HE is the one singled out. There's always allusions to scapegoating, being a whipping boy but no-one can say why.

 

Maybe it's just the case that he's an average player who shows a distinct lack of effort on occasion and most supporters recognise that.  

 

Of course no one can say why, a lack of reason is in the nature of scapegoating. The whole point is that someone gets blamed for something they didn't do, or are held solely responsible for a holistic failure, there's no logic to it.

 

Regarding the 'top 12' comment, I think Arsene Wenger would chew off his own arm to have Mikel in the squad, van Gaal isn't exactly overstocked with competent defensive midfielders either. If Liverpool had him they wouldn't have to worry about the huge gaps in their defence, endless potshots from nowhere or the diagonal balls into the stands either...

Well it is pointless digging up the past about how many games he got and his CL final performance, it's about the here and now really.

 

I think most people would like to see Mikel replaced, I don't think anyone here hates him, he seems to have a good attitude off the pitch so I don't see why people would hate him.

 

But I do think Blue Daze has as good point, if we can't rely on Mikel to play consistently should injuries occur then I think we will have to get him replaced as quick as we can. He has been at the club for a long time though and played a lot of games such as cup finals and what not so he is definitely going to get all the respect and praise he will deserve should he leave.

I can rely on him, just because he can't doesn't mean no one can.

I can rely on him, just because he can't doesn't mean no one can.

Every manager since he signed in 2006 has relied upon him regularly, either to start or come on to do a job. I dont see any difference now to be honest, Jose still obviously has him in his plans.

I can rely on him, just because he can't doesn't mean no one can.

 

Perhaps, he is still here so we will have to have him playing regardless.

 

Put it back to Mikel in 2011/2012 season, when Essien was out I wanted Mikel to finally get his start in the side, obviously not the bisons role I mean to actually have his starting spot and make his way into the side, it was going well against Stoke and Laverkusen but as soon as we faced Valencia a side that had Canales and a lot of pacey players he just completely struggled and had players running circles around him.

 

That's me digging up past right there, but after that game Mikel couldn't seem to pick it up again, and that happened the season after and after and Mikel just didn't seem to be the player I thought he would be like 6 years ago. He's as cool as cucumber without a doubt, really calm on the ball but he's not the type of player that seems to want to put his life on the line to get that ball back, he lacks a lot of aggressiveness.

 

Well that's my opinion on him anyway, I just don't think we can rely on him should Fab and Ramires get injured and we have to stick him next to Matic for like a month. Maybe I'm wrong but from what I've seen of Mikel in the past I don't think he can put that set of consistent performances in anymore, not in the past few years he hasn't been able to really anyway despite his Champions League performances.

I look back with fondness on the days when Peter Kenyon was to blame for everything.

So can the same argument in reverse not count, the fact he was 1st choice for so long in so many trophy winning competitions shows how good he was?

As for book closed etc, it's good of you to tell us what we can and can't talk about, cheers.

 

I'm not saying what people can or can't talk about, but the guy has been replaced and he'll move on at the end of the season. People can talk about what they want so here's a nice discussion point - in what month will Mikel get a PL start?

 

From the time Makelele left we won ONE league title. In Matic's first full season we're favourites to win the league and making a decent start to the campaign. Again it's not a fantastic point either way because there's other things going on.

 

Hyperbole at it's finest. 

 

If it's hyperbole, correct me. Which other teams am I missing out? Man City? United? Liverpool....wait, they aren't top 12.

 

 

Kalou, Malouda, Torres all gone. So is Luiz. 

 

20 minute sub appearance got you and others in here for another crack at the guy who is hardly playing.

 

You tell me...

 

Kalou, Malouda, Torres, Luiz....and you want to include Mikel in that company and suggest he's unfairly scapegoated.

 

Honestly I'm not sure why this conversation came up - I think my first input was that if we lose Matic then we're pretty f**ked.

 

Blue Daze - Out of interest what other better players in his position would you want that would be happy to sit on the bench and be a backup?

 

I don't want players who are happy to sit on the bench. I want players who push the guy who has the shirt and fight for a starting spot week in and week out.

 

But in terms of our own squad I'd have loved to have seen Chalobah stick around and I hope Ake gets more minutes. 

 

Of course no one can say why, a lack of reason is in the nature of scapegoating. The whole point is that someone gets blamed for something they didn't do, or are held solely responsible for a holistic failure, there's no logic to it.

 

Regarding the 'top 12' comment, I think Arsene Wenger would chew off his own arm to have Mikel in the squad, van Gaal isn't exactly overstocked with competent defensive midfielders either. If Liverpool had him they wouldn't have to worry about the huge gaps in their defence, endless potshots from nowhere or the diagonal balls into the stands either...

 

He's not good enough for Arsenal. He was being shopped around in the summer and the only enquiries came from abroad.

 

Liverpool have Lucas who is a very good holding midfielder, but they have a manager who simply can't organise a defence. Plus they bought Emre Can in the summer.

 

Every manager since he signed in 2006 has relied upon him regularly, either to start or come on to do a job. I dont see any difference now to be honest, Jose still obviously has him in his plans.

 

And every manager bar Hiddink has been let go for failing to win the league.

 

What did Jose do in his first six months? He replaced Mikel and barely selected him in the league. Mikel simply doesn't want to leave and why would he? He's on a great contract, will receive medals and get 20 minutes cameos here and there.

 

I look back with fondness on the days when Peter Kenyon was to blame for everything.

 

Once again it's this thing about him being blamed for everything. He isn't. 

 

We're in great shape in almost every aspect of the club, but some people look at where we're susceptible to problems and an adequate backup to Matic is one of them. Once again, Mikel was a starter for this club and now he's not. We've upgraded the position with someone who has the potential to be truly world-class. I'm sure some of the people defending him may have previously said we didn't need to do that but Jose clearly recognised it was an area we were weak in which is why Mikel doesn't start in the league against even the weakest opposition.

 

But Shrewsbury Town away is one to put in the diaries for anyone hoping to see Mikel's marauding style of play on display next....

And every manager bar Hiddink has been let go for failing to win the league.

 

What did Jose do in his first six months? He replaced Mikel and barely selected him in the league. Mikel simply doesn't want to leave and why would he? He's on a great contract, will receive medals and get 20 minutes cameos here and there.

 

Are you really implying what I think you are implying?

 

 

Guess how many league appearances he made last season... 24

 

Doesn't want to leave... maybe because he is at a top european club and wants to contribute to the effort and fight for his place. Why always take the absolute negative connotation? How did you feel when Mata went to Man United after 6 months of marginalisation?

Edited October 3, 201411 yr by Stim

I think people need to get off the whole Mikel scapegoat thing, this is a discussion guys no need to see it in that way. If anything more people here are on Mikels side on the past few pages at least. 

 

If we can't discuss football and instead we are going to just get personal about it and start pointing fingers making silly accusations then what's the point in this being a football forum? 

 

I don't agree with everything Blue Daze is saying but I think he does have a good point. 

Edited October 3, 201411 yr by Slawth

 

We're in great shape in almost every aspect of the club, but some people look at where we're susceptible to problems and an adequate backup to Matic is one of them. Once again, Mikel was a starter for this club and now he's not. We've upgraded the position with someone who has the potential to be truly world-class. I'm sure some of the people defending him may have previously said we didn't need to do that but Jose clearly recognised it was an area we were weak in which is why Mikel doesn't start in the league against even the weakest opposition.

 

 

It's also all guess work, but that is definitely the logical conclusion yes. Mikel couldn't break his way into the side and wasn't impressing enough so we got in Matic and now we have Fabregas and even Ramires is preferred over him. But we still don't know if Jose doesn't want him or if he does, you could say that Mikel since he is here Mikel must be part of his plans but you could also say that he wants to stay and we will keep him if that's the case. 

 

He does have plenty of positives with being here for a long time, but with us two not rating Mikel as much some other people do it's more worrying for us if we are to rely on Mikel. That may sound bad but the Premier League is full of surprises and Mikel has leaked goals for us in the past plenty of times with his poor man man marking skills. I don't think he covers enough ground to be fit for the league in general and our system, I think he would be better off somewhere else but if he is happy to be here then it's going to be hard to see him leaving anytime soon. 

 

I also like the idea of a replacement because it would be good to go for someone like Imbula who seems to be a good prospect, he is a very tidy footballer i've heard. 

Edited October 3, 201411 yr by Slawth

I think people need to get off the whole Mikel scapegoat thing, this is a discussion guys no need to see it in that way. If anything more people here are on Mikels side on the past few pages at least. 

 

If we can't discuss football and instead we are going to just get personal about it and start pointing fingers making silly accusations then what's the point in this being a football forum? 

 

I don't agree with everything Blue Daze is saying but I think he does have a good point. 

 

   

You're laughing yet you're doing the exact same thing? Can your little gang forget about me for this moment and actually discuss some football please, I really don't care what you have to say about me right now, but just say it in another thread for now I'll deal with it later. 

 

Instead of just looking at the negatives in all my posts and trying to find some flaw, granted that might not be hard because I need to work on some of my wording but not every single one of my posts has to mean something bad. You can portray it like that or whatever but I'm actually just wanting a good debate and point something out. 

Edited October 3, 201411 yr by Slawth

Unbelievable lack of self awareness isn't it :)

I'm not saying what people can or can't talk about, but the guy has been replaced and he'll move on at the end of the season. People can talk about what they want so here's a nice discussion point - in what month will Mikel get a PL start?

 

I don't want players who are happy to sit on the bench. I want players who push the guy who has the shirt and fight for a starting spot week in and week out.

 

 

I doubt he will. People have always been saying he'll move in the summer and he never does. And why would he start? Matic and Fabregas are ahead of him. His role is a back up role.

 

Well then, if you don't want players who are happy to sit on the bench, if you bring in another top midfielder and they can't break into the side, they'll leave. You just want that? Or alternatively, Matic is displaced, and as you don't want him to be happy with being on the bench, he will leave.

 

If Mikel was as useless as you make him out to be, he wouldn't even be brought on at the end of big games in order to close them out. 

Are you really implying what I think you are implying?

 

 

Guess how many league appearances he made last season... 24

 

Doesn't want to leave... maybe because he is at a top european club and wants to contribute to the effort and fight for his place. Why always take the absolute negative connotation? How did you feel when Mata went to Man United after 6 months of marginalisation?

 

How many starts did he make after January 15th?

 

What I was implying is that simply saying that managers selected him on a consistent basis (winning only one league in 7 years) doesn't mean anything. 

 

Everyone here knows that this discussion has been had many times over the last few years and the arguments are ALWAYS the same....but here's the difference. Mourinho has replaced Mikel with a far better player and Mikel simply won't start A SINGLE MATCH OF IMPORTANCE FOR US EVER AGAIN.

Edited October 3, 201411 yr by Blue Daze

Mourinho & the chelsea managers subsequently ruined Mikel. He was shoehorned into the DM position even though he was a creative AM before that. With that, it hampered his progression and he didn't make it to what he could've been, even if he does show glimpses of that for Nigeria over the years. 

 

Not sure what it was, but there were some under 21 (or 18 year?) youth championships around that time -- Mikel came second in terms of the best player secondly only to the best player in the world in Messi, and ahead of the likes of Aguero. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...Therefore, Mikel could've been nearly as good as Messi. 

Edited October 3, 201411 yr by MANoWAR

Top banter

Personally don't mind mikel, retains possession well enough when we are shutting up shop.

I do however think his role could be replaced with a homegrown player. I'm still hopeful chalobah or ake can become squad players.

For me there's no better player in the world at a 5 yard side rule or backwards pass. 99 on FIFA in that in my book.

The backpass is an art, Stevie G cannot perform ;)

The question is what has happened to the OP ...Davey Baby?