Ashley Cole is a better player than Luiz so there is no point in the transfer. Luiz is not at the World Cup, Shaw is, that speaks volumes. Blind also makes more sense than Luis but he looks nailed on for Man United.

 

You're not really comparing one of the tournaments favourites squad to England's are you? That's not a good foundation for an argument.

 

I said it in another thread regarding age what you have to bare in mind is that even by signing players older than we have in recent seasons the average age of the team/squad is going to be lower next season.

 

Fabregas for Lampard = 9 years younger

 

Luis for Cole = 4 years younger

 

Costa for Eto'o = 8 years younger

 

If Zouma is replacing Luiz = 8 years younger 

Should we be concern about his age much? I mean, he isn't that old at 29, is he? Luis can help the team immediately & that's what Jose sees in him if signed.

Ashley Cole is a better player than Luiz so there is no point in the transfer. Luiz is not at the World Cup, Shaw is, that speaks volumes. Blind also makes more sense than Luis but he looks nailed on for Man United.

How does that speak volumes? Tim Cahill has been picked for the World Cup for Australia does that mean he's better than another player who didn't get picked for another Country? No. Sorry but this is one of the dumbest comments I have ever read. Sometimes certain national teams have multiple options, players like Fabregas, Mata and Cazorla don't start for Spain doesn't mean they aren't great players. Quite often in history top players haven't been picked for their National sides due to various reasons. They play for different national sides with different options.

Shaw is an exciting prospect but he does big look like the lives of player that Mourinho would pick he will want someone proven not someone who may be good in 2-3 years time. Shaw is nowhere near ready.

Edited June 17, 201412 yr by Bobbywoodhogan

To put my views on a clear way. Jose's recent transfer activity has not centered around players over the age of 27. It makes no sense to me buying Luiz who will be 29 when the season starts when Ashley Cole is a better player and at 33 will have 2 good seasons left in him. Regarding Blind and Shaw, both are considered good enough for their countries. Why is it Luiz is not for Brazil even in a back up capacity at 28 ?

If Shaw is available at 30 million and Luiz at 20 million - in 4 years time it will cost us more than 10 million to buy a left back as good as Cole. We could end up spending 60 million on left backs in the next 10 years if we buy 29 year olds when the outlay on Shaw would last 14 years !!!!! I also never heard ANYONE praising Luiz on here for his performances againt us and in the Champions League final he was ripped to pieces this convincing Scholari not to put him in the Brazil Squad.

I don't get quite how people say Shaw isn't good enough but Luis is?

I mean Shaw is proven in the EPL for 2 seasons now while Luis has never played in the league before so if anything I'd say Shaw would be the safer bet in that regard.

The main reason here is the money involved, if both were at the same price I'd go for Shaw who ticks more boxes but because he is English the price is infalted.

People who say he is not ready I doubt watched him very much last season, he was bloody fantastic at left back for his team.

It bugs me when people say don't sign a player because he's too old. Was Franco zola too old? How about Marcel desailly? That old makalele fella was a poor signing too.

 

We are a VASTLY different club to where we were when we bought all those players. Yes they contibuted massively in our emergence, helping us get CL football and thus attract Abramovic or win our first PL. We were scrapping round to try and break the big time, now we are the big time, we already have very good players. Our purchases now should be aimed at long term sustainability. Id prefer to offer Ashley Cole a decent contract for a year and buy another Azpi who has potential.

 

We are not in the position where we have to be held for ransom on players, there are very few players who will truly improve the club and he isnt one of them. £19 million for a 29 year old LB who has never consistently been at the top of the game is stupid, (I know he was the LB of the season in Spain... a single season in a career in a different league) especially when we already have 4 players who play his position who can do a job. Realisically is PvA, Bertrand, Azpi or Cole £19 million worse than Luis? Bearing also in mind that PvA, Bertrand will have a resale value and both of the have only 2 Caps less than Luis.

How does that speak volumes? Tim Cahill has been picked for the World Cup for Australia does that mean he's better than another player who didn't get picked for another Country? No. Sorry but this is one of the dumbest comments I have ever read. Sometimes certain national teams have multiple options, players like Fabregas, Mata and Cazorla don't start for Spain doesn't mean they aren't great players. Quite often in history top players haven't been picked for their National sides due to various reasons. They play for different national sides with different options.

Shaw is an exciting prospect but he does big look like the lives of player that Mourinho would pick he will want someone proven not someone who may be good in 2-3 years time. Shaw is nowhere near ready.

 

Tim Cahill has no competition, Luis's competition is Maxwell. Need I say more?

It's simple for me Luke Shaw needs to massively work on his defensive game. Mourinho knows he had to win something next so he wants to bring in someone who is ready now.

Shotgun, my point was you can't compare two national sides to each other, that was just an example. Brazil clearly have better options than we go in many areas. Shaw looks raw and not ready, I truly believe Hodgson took him to give him experience of going to a major tournament.

Not sure how willing Madrid would be doing deals with us with the Jose factor.

A few of his team mates like Pepe and Ronaldo also being at Madrid might tempt him to just stick it out...I mean it is Madrid after all.

Luis not getting into the Brazil squad is down to one mans opinion which is Scolari yet Mourinho seems to really rate him thats what football is about different opinions. I reckon if you asked 100 people who they would rather have Luis or Maxwell i reckon most would say Luis so him not getting into the Brazil squad doesn't mean much. Another example is Nasri is not in the French squad are you telling me Remy Cabella is better than Nasri?. Luis has always been a good leftback its just his profile has got bigger as Ath Madrid have done well its not like he just randomly had one good season. He has mostly likely got better with age like Drogba and afterall Luis did break his leg one season so maybe it took him a while to get back.

 

The person who posted that Shaw is good going forward but not great defensively i would have to say its the other way around for me, for an 18 year old he can defend well but going forward he needs to improve.You made it sound like he is Kyle Walker. If Luis was younger and a bit cheaper i'd be more enthusiastic about us buying him as for me is in the top 5 leftbacks in the world. I would still prefer Shaw though.

Edited June 17, 201412 yr by jack_super_class

I don't get quite how people say Shaw isn't good enough but Luis is?

I mean Shaw is proven in the EPL for 2 seasons now while Luis has never played in the league before so if anything I'd say Shaw would be the safer bet in that regard.

The main reason here is the money involved, if both were at the same price I'd go for Shaw who ticks more boxes but because he is English the price is infalted.

People who say he is not ready I doubt watched him very much last season, he was bloody fantastic at left back for his team.

 

Watched plenty of him last season and hes nowhere near ready to be starter for Chelsea.

 

Id say Luis is more proven because im not putting the premier league on a pedestal. He was a starter for the team that won la liga this year (ahead of RM and barca mind you) and hes also played in CL and Europa League finals.

 

To me it sounds like you consider Lallana more proven than Di Maria just because one plays in the premier league and the other one doesnt

Edited June 17, 201412 yr by Lane

To me it sounds like you consider Lallana more proven than Di Maria just because one plays in the premier league and the other one doesnt

I said Shaw would be a better choice since he actually plays here and was one of the best left backs last season. The difference between Shaw and Luis is not the same as Di Maria and Lallana....even you should know that.

For the same money I said IMO Shaw would tick the most boxes but it's not the same money so I understand why we are not moving for him.

Don't put words into my mouth either.

I said Shaw would be a better choice since he actually plays here and was one of the best left backs last season. The difference between Shaw and Luis is not the same as Di Maria and Lallana....even you should know that.

For the same money I said IMO Shaw would tick the most boxes but it's not the same money so I understand why we are not moving for him.

Don't put words into my mouth either.

 

I didnt put words in your mouth, you obviously dont know the meaning of the idiom.

 

For me the gulf in class between di maria/lallana is about the same as between luis/shaw

If Lallana was 18 and Di Maria turned 29 next month I think Id prefer Lallana.

Watched plenty of him last season and hes nowhere near ready to be starter for Chelsea.

Id say Luis is more proven because im not putting the premier league on a pedestal. He was a starter for the team that won la liga this year (ahead of RM and barca mind you) and hes also played in CL and Europa League finals.

To me it sounds like you consider Lallana more proven than Di Maria just because one plays in the premier league and the other one doesnt

Agreed Lane, the thing here is it's what Mourinho wants and do people here really think we know better than him? I wonder if he was questioned like this when he signed Eto'o for Inter and won the damn treble.

Edited June 17, 201412 yr by Bobbywoodhogan

The person who posted that Shaw is good going forward but not great defensively i would have to say its the other way around for me, for an 18 year old he can defend well but going forward he needs to improve.You made it sound like he is Kyle Walker. If Luis was younger and a bit cheaper i'd be more enthusiastic about us buying him as for me is in the top 5 leftbacks in the world. I would still prefer Shaw though.

I think he's okay defensively and the system Southampton played benefitted Shaw greatly, when it comes to back to the walls and discipline I simiply don't trust him. He's better attacking wise, there's no question about that in my view.

Jose must be thinking about winning a trophy next season and what will give him the best chance of doing so. He needs immediate success, there is no doubt about it.

 

In that context it is no surprise at all that he will opt for the proven & established player with experience of playing at the highest level.

 

As noted above Shaw looked great bombing forward in Southampton's system however I would have concerns over that would be replicated in a Jose Mourinho Chelsea side.

 

Defensively I don't believe he would be as solid as Luis for those big games against the best in Europe, a stage which Luis has proved himself on.

 

I said a similar thing regarding Shaw's inclusion in the WC and that I would have taken Cole in favour of him.

Baines was an example of what I was talking about on Saturday night- he has also been hyped up all season and by all accounts is superb going forward with quality delivery into the box but it was no surprise he got found out straight away against a decent (but not outstanding mind) Italy side. I could see that happening with Shaw and that is why I am sure Mourinho would consider it too much of a gamble.

 

I said a similar thing regarding Shaw's inclusion in the WC and that I would have taken Cole in favour of him.

Baines was an example of what I was talking about on Saturday night- he has also been hyped up all season and by all accounts is superb going forward with quality delivery into the box but it was no surprise he got found out straight away against a decent (but not outstanding mind) Italy side. I could see that happening with Shaw and that is why I am sure Mourinho would consider it too much of a gamble.

 

I think that's the key behind the Luis/Shaw debate. Luis looks to be the 'safe' option - Solid defensively, experienced at CL level and currently at his peak. As you mentioned, Jose knows that he/we need to win something this year, and opting for Felipe Luis and foregoing the opportunity to roll the dice on Luke Shaw possibly gives us a greater chance of doing so.

 

However, in this instance, I'd say that we ought to take a gamble on Luke Shaw. Yes, he doesn't have any CL experience, but if we want to adopt the defensive approach next year in those games then we can always use Azpilicueta at LB. Yes, he'd cost us about €10-12m more, but for me the upside on him is enormous. Not only is he terrific going forward already and has the potential to become a top-class LB,  this a homegrown Chelsea fan as well. For me, that adds much more value to his signature than the extra cost we would have to pay to secure him. I know I might sound a little romantic here but given that we've lost Lampard and Cole already, with JT possibly embarking on his last season, we could really do with adding some English blood into the team. It's incredibly rare that we're presented with the opportunity to sign one of the hottest prospects in the country who happens to be a boyhood fan of the club and fits a position of need. Come on Jose, go for it.

Look at the amount of people on here who couldnt wait to tell us all about the "mistakes" Jose made and moaned about not coming close enough to be winning the league. Yes there are actually people who thought that!

Now just think if we signed Shaw and say Lallana and didnt win anything for another season or two. People on here would be calling for Jose's head. People have already said that we should reconsider manager if Jose doesnt win something next season. As crazy as that sounds.

For me Jose is building a squad that will win things. Some younger players who still need work and some older players who will be a driving force in the team. Jose said last season we lacked leaders on the pitch, well if you have a load of youngsters out there then that will happen. Thats why the gooners fall away at the end of each season when the going gets tough.

Even our best young players like Hazard and Oscar had big dips in form last season and looked a little lost at times. Hazard said himself that Eto'o was always driving him forward and telling him to make his mark on the game. I think every team needs players who have been there and done it so that the youngsters have someone to look up to and to learn on when needed.

If you dont agree then go and have a look at posts tweeted or Instagramed by the likes of Hazard and Oscar and even MvG about Lampard. The all looked up to him, Hazard refered to him as boss.

I think that's the key behind the Luis/Shaw debate. Luis looks to be the 'safe' option - Solid defensively, experienced at CL level and currently at his peak. As you mentioned, Jose knows that he/we need to win something this year, and opting for Felipe Luis and foregoing the opportunity to roll the dice on Luke Shaw possibly gives us a greater chance of doing so.

 

This is undoubtedly the situation.

 

Think Paulo. Dependable, and unexciting. And that'll do for me. If Luis can cross the ball half as well as Paulo could (with both feet) we will be sorted, albeit for a bit more cash than i anticipated. But it aint my money.

Edited June 17, 201412 yr by bjd

Hopefully luke shaw stays at Soton for a few years -- then maybe if he's proved how good he is we can go back for him once Luis looks like he isn't capable anymore. Very unlikely though! 

This is undoubtedly the situation.

 

Think Paulo. Dependable, and unexciting. And that'll do for me. If Luis can cross the ball half as well as Paulo could (with both feet) we will be sorted, albeit for a bit more cash than i anticipated. But it aint my money.

 

Unexciting? Luis is a lot more exciting than Shaw

Luis will be a great signing for Chelsea.

Certainly, much cheaper than Shaw.

Unexciting? Luis is a lot more exciting than Shaw

 

I wasnt comparing him to Shaw.

If we fail to sign Shaw now we will regret it as in four years time he will be in the Gareth Bale class, every Southampton fan I know says Shaw is better than Bale was at his age and fans know best don't we :)