5 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

KdB was rubbish in the cup against poor opposition therefore didn't deserve a chance in our starting 11.

 

Charly was good in the cup against poor opposition therefore doesn't deserve a chance in our starting 11.

 

What exactly DOES a youngster need to do to get a start at Chelsea?

You've got a point, but regardless the lad is still on contract and should be more professional about it. 

17 hours ago, Argo said:

When has an academy player come back to haunt us?

kdb a few weeks ago.

But let's be fair there's a fair few that "haven't been good enough" only to go to another club and become great. 

matic,lukaku,Bertrand,traore

I'll throw in ake,solanke and chaloba that can potentially be up there.

 

 

But at the end of the day Scotland and England don't have world class players (kane's the exception) because we need the hazards the agueros the dembeles etc to compete against the big teams NOW. so the guys who should be getting a chance aren't and they end up at Watford or some other little team and get over looked.

As a Scot looking at the England team as a Chelsea fan that defence is woeful Cahill and stones are brutal, Ox and sterling makes me laugh as we see week in week they are brutal. but they play for the big clubs so they consensus is they must be the best WRONG!!

same in Scotland we had Darren Fletcher on who's passed it but he plays in the epl so he must be good enough WRONG!

 

The right way to go about picking a team is by the form they are in or the work they put in in training. 

so yeah musonda was wrong to say it on social media but I get he's frustrated if he is giving 110% and I'd be asking, why he isnt getting a shot when willian has been avg at best this season. 

 

Edited October 10, 20178 yr by Scottish_mike

Jake Clarke-Salter liked his post

16 hours ago, Argo said:

That would work if he actually was outperforming his competition.

I'm currently outperforming Willian whilst sat at home.

When you are a youngster you still have a lot to learn. William may be playing poorly at the start of this season, but he's got the experience that Musonda lacks, and sometimes that makes a difference in a game. But even if I want to see Musonda playing against Palace, I just don't get why are the youth expecting to play instead of first team players. Why aren't they content with training with the first team, getting minutes from time to time, even if in minor Cups, and learning from the best players of the Club? Why such a hurry in playing as a starter and why post your frustrations on social media? Train, observe, learn, and they'll make it.

It's same in every big team in Europe, none young player who come from acedemy, not play for the first team, except if there is a wunderkind like Mbappe, Dembele... This not Chelsea who manage bad the young, or not give a chance, it's everybody !!!

Christensen has the same age than Musonda, but he play more, why ? Because he is stronger, and will can to replace Cahill or Luiz, it's all. If Musonda was stronger than Willian or Pedro he will play, whatever his age. 

Edited October 11, 20178 yr by Cyborg7

21 minutes ago, RMH said:

When you are a youngster you still have a lot to learn. William may be playing poorly at the start of this season, but he's got the experience that Musonda lacks, and sometimes that makes a difference in a game. But even if I want to see Musonda playing against Palace, I just don't get why are the youth expecting to play instead of first team players. Why aren't they content with training with the first team, getting minutes from time to time, even if in minor Cups, and learning from the best players of the Club? Why such a hurry in playing as a starter and why post your frustrations on social media? Train, observe, learn, and they'll make it.

I remember in 2010 when the seniors were underperforming and suddenly Van Aanholt, Josh and. Kakuta apparently became the answer. 

Then they all got there chance vs MSK Zilina, we got outplayed and had to throw on said seniors to save the day. 

Seem's to be a very common thing with this generations Belgium players. They seem to talk a lot of crap during international breaks. 

Yeah. Except Hazard and Mitchy.

Regardless of his talent posting like that on social media is embarrassing. What does he expect to happen now? Just shows him to be petulant and a tad arrogant too.

He had one good game against a championship side and now expects to walk into the side ahead of proven internationalist with hundreds of top flight games under their belts? 

 

Silly boy 

With this behavior, I can't even see him playing any other game under Conte even if it's against Peterborough because from the past experience of Mikel and recently Costa, Conte doesn't take sh*t. I will be amazed if he doesn't go out on loan in January.

 

When you are a youngster you still have a lot to learn. William may be playing poorly at the start of this season, but he's got the experience that Musonda lacks, and sometimes that makes a difference in a game. But even if I want to see Musonda playing against Palace, I just don't get why are the youth expecting to play instead of first team players. Why aren't they content with training with the first team, getting minutes from time to time, even if in minor Cups, and learning from the best players of the Club? Why such a hurry in playing as a starter and why post your frustrations on social media? Train, observe, learn, and they'll make it.

They need to learn from the likes of Mikel, Mitchy, Moses and Christensen about how to be professional when things seems to UNJUSTLY not go their way with the club.

 

On 10/9/2017 at 20:55, TheChelseaBlues said:

Boga and Dembele do not have the same level of talent. Implying they're interchangeable is crazy. Just because you played alongside another player at a relative age doesn't mean both players could have had the same career. 

 

I'm on the Musonda train too. However he isn't good enough to start ahead of Willian and Pedro just yet. By the end of the season he could be and frankly he should be content with a squad role on a championship team given his lack of experience and resume compared to the other 3 players who play his position.

I thought things were going well for him so far and it's obvious Conte wants him to be more involved going forward which makes the timing of this strange especially on an international break. 

The old line of Chelsea don't give young players chances is hogwash now. Christensen for example is quickly becoming a starter and he's playing in big matches for a reason. He shines AND he grabbed the opportunity he had. If Charly thinks he should displace two established internationals on the back of hard work and a goal against Forest in a 2nd rate cup match he needs to look in the mirror. I firmly believe Conte doesn't care about age and this is leaving me very confused about what has lit this fire

I don't believe he's at Pedro's level of course (even though Pedro's been a bit underwhelming this season) but Willian's form has been absolutely shocking to the point where you can't possibly expect Musonda to perform worse. And at that point, what's the worst that could happen? Rather take a chance on the youngster than the 29 year old who's never actually going to get much better.

On 10/9/2017 at 21:51, Argo said:

Using Kane as an example is akin to saying manager's should get more time because of Ferguson, he is an exception to the rule. For the most part the direction a player is going in is clear at 21.

All Chalobah has done is found his natural level. Andreas has had his chances with us, took them and is a fully trusted squad member now, and i don't believe he is better option than even an out of form Willian, that's typical overrate the youngster and undervalue the first teamer syndrome. The same argument was made for Josh when Lamps and co were off form in 2010.

Gareth Bale was almost shipped out of Spurs at some point but they stuck with him. Rashford's a top talent but he was made to look quite ordinary a few times at youth level, including matches against our own youth teams. Still got a crack at the first team. Liverpool gave chances to players like Jordan Ibe, Raheem Sterling and co. Not all of them worked out but they got a Raheem Sterling out of it. We all know no manager trusts youth as much as Wenger so no point even going into that. For all his faults, his record with youth players is very admirable. He has even been too reliant on them in the past. 

Yes, Kane isn't the norm, but it's not like that was a rare case. There are a lot of players who have bags of talent and have looked underwhelming at some point but all it took was being nurtured under the right conditions for them to put everything together and push on. Madrid do that with quite a number of their youngsters too. They realise the atmosphere at the Bernabeu may not be ideal for a lot of youngsters and they either loan them or sell them with buy back clauses and bring them back when they've gotten proper game time and matured under proper tutelage. It's an unbelievable thing to say but Madrid despite having a more ruthless culture re: managers than Chelsea have managed to integrate a lot more youngsters than we have, especially in the past few years and they're reaping the benefits of it big time now.

Not all will work out. But you'll never know the ones that could have worked out if you don't give them a proper crack at it. Josh could have been a regular now if AVB didn't undo all the progress Carlo made with him. But we'll never know now, will we?

On 10/10/2017 at 01:35, bjd said:

Utter nonsense.

It’s been 3 games since Forest, did he really expect to start against City and Madrid?

That's not my point. Willian has been shocking all season. No reason he should be playing tbh. He has done nothing to deserve to start or play games this season and if Musonda wasn't in the squad, I'd understand that Willian's playing because there aren't any other options. But that's not the case.

 

23 hours ago, bjd said:

It staggering how many people seem to think Musonda should be a instant first choice because he had a half decent (and no more) game against Nottingham Forest. Im not denying that Willian isnt playing well (he isnt) but it reminds me of when Katuka came on an played well for 20 mins when we were 4:0 against someone years ago. People on here demanded he be an instant first team player ahead of more established, experienced players. Its just unrealistic.

At this stage of the season Musonda would do well to keep working hard and keep his head down. If its still the same come May, then sure, he can have a good think about things. But acting Billy Big Bollocks after one game against a poor outfit is just crazy. Seems to be the way with many youngsters now sadly. Its very clear he has some way to go, look at the size of him for starters. Makes Josh Mceachran looks like Hulk Hogan.

His outburst is undefendable imo. Its so childish its untrue. Wont do him any favors at all.

The first thing he should be doing today is getting himself some proper advisors.

Silly sod.

No one's saying he should be instant first choice. That's Pedro's job. But should he be playing ahead of Willian or at least getting some of the appearances Willian has gotten? Most definitely. And it's shocking that a good number of you lot disagree. I still have nightmares from Willian's City performance.

On 10/10/2017 at 01:35, bjd said:

Utter nonsense.

It’s been 3 games since Forest, did he really expect to start against City and Madrid?

That's not my point. Willian has been shocking all season. No reason he should be playing tbh. He has done nothing to deserve to start or play games this season and if Musonda wasn't in the squad, I'd understand that Willian's playing because there aren't any other options. But that's not the case.

 

23 hours ago, bjd said:

It staggering how many people seem to think Musonda should be a instant first choice because he had a half decent (and no more) game against Nottingham Forest. Im not denying that Willian isnt playing well (he isnt) but it reminds me of when Katuka came on an played well for 20 mins when we were 4:0 against someone years ago. People on here demanded he be an instant first team player ahead of more established, experienced players. Its just unrealistic.

At this stage of the season Musonda would do well to keep working hard and keep his head down. If its still the same come May, then sure, he can have a good think about things. But acting Billy Big Bollocks after one game against a poor outfit is just crazy. Seems to be the way with many youngsters now sadly. Its very clear he has some way to go, look at the size of him for starters. Makes Josh Mceachran looks like Hulk Hogan.

His outburst is undefendable imo. Its so childish its untrue. Wont do him any favors at all.

The first thing he should be doing today is getting himself some proper advisors.

Silly sod.

No one's saying he should be instant first choice. That's Pedro's job. But should he be playing ahead of Willian or at least getting some of the appearances Willian has gotten? Most definitely. And it's shocking that a good number of you lot disagree. I still have nightmares from Willian's City performance.

2 hours ago, Barrettinator said:

Yes, Kane isn't the norm, but it's not like that was a rare case.

What i mean by rare case is that very few younsters do as little as he did then randomly shoot to stardom. It's relitevely predictable even at a young age. As a random example if someone could see the future now and told you now Christensen or Kenedy will be balon dor winner in 2022 then it's pretty obvious which one it will actually be. Even the reliteve surprises ala Lampard aren't exactly out of the blue. Kane is the first for a long time that has really shocked me.

2 hours ago, Barrettinator said:

I don't believe he's at Pedro's level of course (even though Pedro's been a bit underwhelming this season) but Willian's form has been absolutely shocking to the point where you can't possibly expect Musonda to perform worse. And at that point, what's the worst that could happen? Rather take a chance on the youngster than the 29 year old who's never actually going to get much better.

Gareth Bale was almost shipped out of Spurs at some point but they stuck with him. Rashford's a top talent but he was made to look quite ordinary a few times at youth level, including matches against our own youth teams. Still got a crack at the first team. Liverpool gave chances to players like Jordan Ibe, Raheem Sterling and co. Not all of them worked out but they got a Raheem Sterling out of it. We all know no manager trusts youth as much as Wenger so no point even going into that. For all his faults, his record with youth players is very admirable. He has even been too reliant on them in the past. 

Yes, Kane isn't the norm, but it's not like that was a rare case. There are a lot of players who have bags of talent and have looked underwhelming at some point but all it took was being nurtured under the right conditions for them to put everything together and push on. Madrid do that with quite a number of their youngsters too. They realise the atmosphere at the Bernabeu may not be ideal for a lot of youngsters and they either loan them or sell them with buy back clauses and bring them back when they've gotten proper game time and matured under proper tutelage. It's an unbelievable thing to say but Madrid despite having a more ruthless culture re: managers than Chelsea have managed to integrate a lot more youngsters than we have, especially in the past few years and they're reaping the benefits of it big time now.

Not all will work out. But you'll never know the ones that could have worked out if you don't give them a proper crack at it. Josh could have been a regular now if AVB didn't undo all the progress Carlo made with him. But we'll never know now, will we?

Rashford stayed in the squad because he kept performing, his credit for the Arsenal game would have only took him so far, Macheda effectively won United the title in 2009 but was shafted shortly after. Wenger has also gone the other way with youth, how many chances did Denilson and Eboue get? Also re what Madrid haven't we have done the same with Christensen, Tibo, Bertrand and Sturridge?

Josh was heavily over rated, speaking of youth freindly manager's he went on loan to one of the best around in that regard and couldn't get a look in, the same manager that played andre Wisdom at Liverpool would have surely given Josh a fair crack if he was deserving of one.

Im not saying our youth policy is flawless, but it certainly gets more flack than it warrants, for me.

On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 14:31, RIP Mourinho said:

so a player shouldn't be rewarded with more game time for outperforming their competition? Strange.

Where in my answer did I mention that. reply to what I said not what you would like me to have said.

On 10/10/2017 at 13:20, big blue said:

strange timing, maybe a disagreement over his contract, or possibly they want him to go out on loan again. 

I don't buy the argument that we have never made a mistake with an academy/youth product on the basis that none have particularly bitten on the arse so to speak. 

I came through academies and school of excellence centres myself, and getting the right breaks at the right times, is big part of turning potential into quality. 

We don't give players the breaks they need at important times in their careers in order to maximise their potential. 

Christiensen is starting to look like the 1st time we have gotten it right, I wouldn't count Courtois, as he came back from loan as one of the best in the world. 

Musonda was the biggest talent in anderlechts academy, If you look at where tielemans is compared to musonda, maybe musonda should've stayed. I'm sure he would be a better player than he is now, if he had 200 appearances under his belt. 

With the way transfers are going with mbappe and dembele moving for obscene amounts after a season or 2 of professional football, we can no longer afford to buy the break out stars, we have do more with the ones we have, and the ones we sign at 16/17/18. 

Maybe musonda is out of line here, no one knows what the txt is about with certainty, but I do think his performance against forest, coupled with how poor Willian, and to a lesser extent pedro have been this season, he deserves a more minutes going forward. 

Our games since that league cup game, have been tough fixtures though, which is why I find the timing of all this a little strange. 

Nice post.

1 hour ago, Argo said:

Rashford stayed in the squad because he kept performing, his credit for the Arsenal game would have only took him so far, Macheda effectively won United the title in 2009 but was shafted shortly after. Wenger has also gone the other way with youth, how many chances did Denilson and Eboue get? Also re what Madrid haven't we have done the same with Christensen, Tibo, Bertrand and Sturridge?

Josh was heavily over rated, speaking of youth freindly manager's he went on loan to one of the best around in that regard and couldn't get a look in, the same manager that played andre Wisdom at Liverpool would have surely given Josh a fair crack if he was deserving of one.

Im not saying our youth policy is flawless, but it certainly gets more flack than it warrants, for me.

Not sure why you mentioned Bertrand and Sturridge. We sent Bertrand on loan about 6 times if I'm not mistaken and he still didn't get a proper chance. We shipped him off. And then went out to get the likes of Baba Rahman. Even now, I'd take Bertrand ahead of Alonso. I know Alonso has a lot of fans but there's a reason we were pursuing an actual first choice LWB this summer. You can do the math. Sturridge didn't get a chance either. We kept playing Torres despite him being painfully out of form. No one can say Sturridge was impatient. 

Tibo literally had to go out on loan for 3 straight years and even win La Liga. If Tibo was playing for Bilbao or Sevilla instead of Atletico and didn't win the league, I'm not even sure we'd have phased Cech out for him and we'd have ended up losing him in the summer of 2014 imo. But that's just speculation on my part. We made the smart decision to go with him. Credit where it's due. Christensen also had to win player of the year twice at Monchenglabach (sp?) to get a decent crack at the first team and even now, he's still sitting on the bench when he could be benching Cahill. It's nice that Conte wants him to play in the middle of the back 3 but there's no way he wouldn't be able to handle LCB, especially when we're currently playing Cahill who's a right footed, much less technical CB at LCB. But that's for another discussion.

Thing is, why do our youngsters have to go out and have spectacular seasons on loan to get even a consideration? Sometimes a good or decent season is enough. Why do they have to go and conquer the world to even be considered? That's unfair pressure we put on them.

For all the money we've spent over the years on our academy, I can't imagine that the club wouldn't trust that we've actually had a few good first team talents by now. 

There's a lot more I should say on this but I'm already tired of typing. In the end, I just want to see our youngsters do well. I want to see them achieve their dreams of playing for this club. Some of them joined as 8 year olds and they've lived and breathed CFC their entire lives. They genuinely love this club. You can't buy that. And quite frankly, with Frank, Drog & JT gone, we don't have that in the squad anymore. You know the kind of genuine connection I'm talking about. Maybe Tibo will grow into that some day. Maybe Morata will. Who knows. But it's already ingrained in our youngsters and since they have the talent to go with it, why not give them a proper chance?

That's all I have to say for now really. I hope Conte resolves this with Musonda. 

13 minutes ago, Barrettinator said:

Not sure why you mentioned Bertrand and Sturridge. We sent Bertrand on loan about 6 times if I'm not mistaken and he still didn't get a proper chance. We shipped him off. And then went out to get the likes of Baba Rahman. Even now, I'd take Bertrand ahead of Alonso. I know Alonso has a lot of fans but there's a reason we were pursuing an actual first choice LWB this summer. You can do the math. Sturridge didn't get a chance either. We kept playing Torres despite him being painfully out of form. No one can say Sturridge was impatient. 

Tibo literally had to go out on loan for 3 straight years and even win La Liga. If Tibo was playing for Bilbao or Sevilla instead of Atletico and didn't win the league, I'm not even sure we'd have phased Cech out for him and we'd have ended up losing him in the summer of 2014 imo. But that's just speculation on my part. We made the smart decision to go with him. Credit where it's due. Christensen also had to win player of the year twice at Monchenglabach (sp?) to get a decent crack at the first team and even now, he's still sitting on the bench when he could be benching Cahill. It's nice that Conte wants him to play in the middle of the back 3 but there's no way he wouldn't be able to handle LCB, especially when we're currently playing Cahill who's a right footed, much less technical CB at LCB. But that's for another discussion.

Thing is, why do our youngsters have to go out and have spectacular seasons on loan to get even a consideration? Sometimes a good or decent season is enough. Why do they have to go and conquer the world to even be considered? That's unfair pressure we put on them.

For all the money we've spent over the years on our academy, I can't imagine that the club wouldn't trust that we've actually had a few good first team talents by now. 

There's a lot more I should say on this but I'm already tired of typing. In the end, I just want to see our youngsters do well. I want to see them achieve their dreams of playing for this club. Some of them joined as 8 year olds and they've lived and breathed CFC their entire lives. They genuinely love this club. You can't buy that. And quite frankly, with Frank, Drog & JT gone, we don't have that in the squad anymore. You know the kind of genuine connection I'm talking about. Maybe Tibo will grow into that some day. Maybe Morata will. Who knows. But it's already ingrained in our youngsters and since they have the talent to go with it, why not give them a proper chance?

That's all I have to say for now really. I hope Conte resolves this with Musonda. 

So there's a reason we were actively pursuing a new LWB this summer but not a reason we brought Luis when Bertrand was here? And that they got sold was nor here nor there, Sturridge returned from loan into the first Xl and Bertrand got a squad role for 3 year's. Also Alonso is infinity times more suited to wing back than Bertrand is, the latter in that position would be horrific, if Ryan were to stand a chance under a back 3 system it would be LCB.

They shouldn't have to do spectacular but they also should be somewhat proven, especially to have the audacity to pull the stunt Charly just has. If Charly was owned by Betis, underwhelmed like he did on loan there and we signed him he would be instantly dismissed as another Papy esque signing yet because he was on our books initially he is being highly overrated. And we've been here before, there was a time many thought Bamford was worth a shot.

@Barrettinator Willian hasn't bern that shocking. He hasn't been good but things could be worse. As you say Willian isn't going to improve but Conte knows what he's getting from him and maybe he prefers that in matches against a team like City. Keep in mind he's seen a lot more of Pedro and Willian. I agree there are a few missed chances we could have gotten by with Charly on instead of either of the other two and with Hazard back we could be seeing more of Charly. 

I'm at a loss for why this blowup happened when it did. The only realistic things I can think of are he was told he'll be loaned out again or he's demanded to start/play more and Conte has told him to be patient. 

On 10/10/2017 at 20:00, RIP Mourinho said:

KdB was rubbish in the cup against poor opposition therefore didn't deserve a chance in our starting 11.

 

Charly was good in the cup against poor opposition therefore doesn't deserve a chance in our starting 11.

 

What exactly DOES a youngster need to do to get a start at Chelsea?

What a poor example.

Lukaku scored 15 at WBA, 20 odd at everton and still did not deserve a chance because those are poor teams and playing for chelsea is different.

Some of the great posters even thought that Andreas' potential and ability was nothing more than a figment of a couple of fans' imagination.

:)

IPatience is a virtue they say. I'll say 5 years waiting in the wings is more than patient.  I won't criticise the player because it is something I expect to happen frequently in near future.

They have had had enough. We don't give young players a chance and it's not just them saying it. It's a common topic amongst sport commentators around the globe only balanced by the point that the players are better for getting their football schooling through Chelsea's academy farm.

The point of being schooled is to do something with the learning eventually. If there is no end point in sight it gets frustrating.

.....and they vent. It's a huge missed opportunity in my opinion bringing through such youngsters that could potentially be loyal to the club for the chances and belief it had in them rather we are in a scenario where they don't bat an eye lid about joining some other club instead of us (see Lukaku as example) as the sense of association and loyalty has been lost.

I use that example because this is a kid who at 16 was crying in Stamford bridge about the club and stating his ultimate desire to play in it but once the man that led to him leaving came calling he went. We rationalise it down to money but loyal people with a sense of commitment to something are usually not swayed by money in most cases.

What will breed such loyalty and commitment........showing we believe in them and giving them the opportunities they should be getting. 

Do you think that Musonda won't compare himself with his peers in the club we bought him from and maybe see some of them fully entrenched in first term weekly football and not feel disenchanted?

2 hours ago, didierforever said:

What a poor example.

Lukaku scored 15 at WBA, 20 odd at everton and still did not deserve a chance because those are poor teams and playing for chelsea is different.

So if Lukaku came to you in 2014 and said he wanted to be first choice, which would mean abandoning the pursuit of a vastly superior striker, what would you have done?

2 hours ago, didierforever said:

Some of the great posters even thought that Andreas' potential and ability was nothing more than a figment of a couple of fans' imagination.

:)

Who said that exactly?

23 minutes ago, abister1 said:

 

Do you think that Musonda won't compare himself with his peers in the club we bought him from and maybe see some of them fully entrenched in first term weekly football and not feel disenchanted?

Well why doesn't he compare himself to his peers he was playing youth cup football at Chelsea with? Like Andreas Christensen.

Musonda is a good player, but i don't think that it's a big crack, while his loan at Betis Seville, he could show his talent but he didn't do it, how you didn't take one place in 11 from Betis Seville ? And after come back at Chelsea and to claim more time of game.... a little respect when even. 

Christensen has been loan at Monchengladbach and he show his talent and he getting one place in 11..

He will do better to work than open his mouth like that...

On 10/10/2017 at 14:30, bjd said:

but it reminds me of when Katuka came on an played well for 20 mins when we were 4:0 against someone years ago. P

Wolves. He did an outrageous dummy against a knackered and bedraggled defender and it was assumed he was going to be a massive star just on that one bit of skill.