Imagine if we were as deluded...

Everyone loves Mourinho.

The nation wanted John Terry to lift the European Cup after his misfortune in Moscow and were elated when he did.

I rate sterling, not as highly as some have made him out to be, but he is a good player. However (and a bit of credit for brenda here) Sterling has developed because of the faith showen in him. Do you think Sterling at the same age at our place would have been given the same chances over the last couple of season. Boga and hazard (torgan) are two players of similer capability, will the get the chance here?

PS torgan looks like he is mainly being used as a sub at BM

No he wouldn't have got much playing time with us. No doubt about that at all. However that is the difference between expectations at Chelsea and Liverpool.

Belfast Telegraph wading in with a strange article saying Gerrard could / should end up at Chelsea if he wants some more medals haha

I wonder how much he'd pay to join us because we'll not be buying him.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/liverpool/now-liverpool-captain-steven-gerrard-may-see-his-future-with-chelsea-30815655.html?

No he wouldn't have got much playing time with us. No doubt about that at all. However that is the difference between expectations at Chelsea and Liverpool.

 

 

I would say that, that is the key reason that I don't think youth players will ever really make it through the acadamy, players need to play to progress. But then again the fans are the same as the board, it's the same group who call for us to sighn reuse (or what ever his name) as have a go for not giving youth a chance

I would say that, that is the key reason that I don't think youth players will ever really make it through the acadamy, players need to play to progress. But then again the fans are the same as the board, it's the same group who call for us to sighn reuse (or what ever his name) as have a go for not giving youth a chance

 

That's very true but, maybe if there was more optimism and confidence amongst the fans that Thorgan H or some other youth prospects might be in with a real shout of making the first team squad/team that there might be less calls for Reus type signings. Maybe.

 

I was really surprised when City replaced Aguero with an 18 year old youth player against Everton. That was a huge 87 minutes against tough opposition in the premier competition. I cast my mind back to when Remy went off injured against Maribor and whilst already ahead, he was replaced by Drogba and not Solanke. That felt to me like a missed opportunity or an indication of Jose's belief in the youth players.

That's very true but, maybe if there was more optimism and confidence amongst the fans that Thorgan H or some other youth prospects might be in with a real shout of making the first team squad/team that there might be less calls for Reus type signings. Maybe.

I was really surprised when City replaced Aguero with an 18 year old youth player against Everton. That was a huge 87 minutes against tough opposition in the premier competition. I cast my mind back to when Remy went off injured against Maribor and whilst already ahead, he was replaced by Drogba and not Solanke. That felt to me like a missed opportunity or an indication of Jose's belief in the youth players.

If you have a choice between a youth player or Drogba, you go with Drogba every time.

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't believe City had any other recognized forwards on the bench.

So Pellegrino's hand was forced rather than him having unwavering faith in his youth players.

Liverpool really are in disaster, they haven't came back stronger at all it's almost as if they've completely given up. But then again could losing Suarez really be that much? When we beat Bayern in the CL final that would have put any team down, like think of it from a munich fans perspective, how the hell did we not win that game. They also lost the Cup that season and the league I believe, but they came back next season and had one of the best seasons a team could ever have, dominated the league, dominated Europe.

 

Can't really compare Bayern to Liverpool of course but I'm just making a point, Liverpool have just gotten worse, like the players just don't seem to believe in Brendan anymore like they did last season. But that is Brendan for you, I knew it would only last  for so long, he is a Keegan type manager he can only take them so far, you can't motivate a team like that every season it just doesn't work. You got to have balance you can't just have POSTIVES POSITIVES POSITIVES ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK. Doesn't work like that, he is far naive when it comes to managing a top side anyway.

 

I think the only way Liverpool can go from here is down I really do, they wont finish in top 4 this year that's a certain, top 6? they will be lucky, I can see them getting 7th at best right now and I have no hopes of them getting any stronger under Brendan in the future. This is bloody fantastic.

If you have a choice between a youth player or Drogba, you go with Drogba every time.loop

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't believe City had any other recognized forwards on the bench.

So Pellegrino's hand was forced rather than him having unwavering faith in his youth players.

They had dzeko

If you have a choice between a youth player or Drogba, you go with Drogba every time.

 

I'm not saying that's wrong but, therein lies the problem I guess. You're 1-0 up and very much on top at home against relatively weak opposition and if that's not the time a youth player can be given the chance then I don't know when is. We'd still have had the option to throw Drogba on later in the unlikely event it went belly up.

 

We only ever seem to give these lads the last few minutes of games that are long since over as contests and I feel they get nothing from it as there needs to be at least a little pressure on them. Kalas proved that it can be done - not that it did him any good in the long term as he's now pretty much a season ticket holder at Cologne.

Ruben Loftus-Cheek is 18??? He played in a friendly match against us 2 years ago and I remember that game because it was being televised free to air on Chelsea T.V. and the commentators/Jason Cundy were giving him a big mention, I thought he was 18/19 back then, He looked a good player, Is he a defensive midfielder ala Matic/Mikel or is he more a Fabregas type ??

They had dzeko

 

Struggling with a calf injury isn't he? (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/dec/09/manchester-city-edin-dzeko-sergio-aguero-roma)

 

Not sure why a player is being named on the bench if they aren't match fit but I would presume that due to Aguero's injury occurring so early in the game that played a big part in the decision of who to bring on. 

 

I'm not saying that's wrong but, therein lies the problem I guess. You're 1-0 up and very much on top at home against relatively weak opposition and if that's not the time a youth player can be given the chance then I don't know when is. We'd still have had the option to throw Drogba on later in the unlikely event it went belly up.

 

We only ever seem to give these lads the last few minutes of games that are long since over as contests and I feel they get nothing from it as there needs to be at least a little pressure on them. Kalas proved that it can be done - not that it did him any good in the long term as he's now pretty much a season ticket holder at Cologne.

 

Mourinho's job first and foremost is win football matches, not to bring through youth players. 

 

We've seen it with the likes of Basel that the "smaller" sides in Europe are no push overs and even with a 1-0 lead it's no assurance of victory.

 

As fantastic as it would be to see the fruits of our youth academy if they're not good enough then I don't want them anywhere near the team. 

 

Giving a run out to a player just because they are a youth team player, to me, doesn't make sense. If we have to spend £5-10m on a player because the manager then has more confidence in his back up players, so be it. 

 

We have to trust Mourinho and the club that they are picking the best players to get the job done and not just picking players for sentimental reasons. 

 

Maybe I'm just not as passionate about youth development as some but honestly I would rather see Drogba come on and feel confident in getting a result than seeing a youth player get game time just because it would be nice.  

Ruben Loftus-Cheek is 18??? He played in a friendly match against us 2 years ago and I remember that game because it was being televised free to air on Chelsea T.V. and the commentators/Jason Cundy were giving him a big mention, I thought he was 18/19 back then, He looked a good player, Is he a defensive midfielder ala Matic/Mikel or is he more a Fabregas type ??

 

He's more like Matic, in terms of build, but generally plays a bit further forward as a CM as opposed to a DM.

 

Over the years he's looked comfortable playing anywhere in the middle, but he's no goalscorer.

Struggling with a calf injury isn't he? (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/dec/09/manchester-city-edin-dzeko-sergio-aguero-roma)

 

Not sure why a player is being named on the bench if they aren't match fit but I would presume that due to Aguero's injury occurring so early in the game that played a big part in the decision of who to bring on. 

 

 

Mourinho's job first and foremost is win football matches, not to bring through youth players. 

 

We've seen it with the likes of Basel that the "smaller" sides in Europe are no push overs and even with a 1-0 lead it's no assurance of victory.

 

As fantastic as it would be to see the fruits of our youth academy if they're not good enough then I don't want them anywhere near the team. 

 

Giving a run out to a player just because they are a youth team player, to me, doesn't make sense. If we have to spend £5-10m on a player because the manager then has more confidence in his back up players, so be it. 

 

We have to trust Mourinho and the club that they are picking the best players to get the job done and not just picking players for sentimental reasons. 

 

Maybe I'm just not as passionate about youth development as some but honestly I would rather see Drogba come on and feel confident in getting a result than seeing a youth player get game time just because it would be nice.  

 

Again, I'm not disagreeing at all. My point is really that either they're good enough (the City player for example) or they're not. But if they're not then surely they shouldn't even be in the squad full stop. But if they're deemed worthy of sitting on the bench then surely with the assistance of 10 regular first team players, a goal advantage and the safety of Stamford Bridge, there is likely no better time to use one of these players?

 

I'm inclined to agree with what Jose said yesterday - if we produce the talent but don't dare to use it then we might as well close the academy and redirect the funds into the player purchasing pot. For what money we make selling youth players on, we probably spend on the electricity bill at the academy facility.

I want City in Europa.

I'm not saying that's wrong but, therein lies the problem I guess. You're 1-0 up and very much on top at home against relatively weak opposition and if that's not the time a youth player can be given the chance then I don't know when is. We'd still have had the option to throw Drogba on later in the unlikely event it went belly up.

 

 

Why take the risk when you can win that game, secure qualification before the final match and possibly give someone like Loftus-Cheek a start?

 

Plus if Remy's injury was going to keep him out for the next couple of matches  (which it did) and you're missing your first-choice striker (which we were) then you need Drogba to get some minutes and form under his belt. Solanke still got 18 minutes in that match.

The more I think about it the more I'm not fussed either way. I really feel that if we concentrate on our own fixtures and results we can win the title regardless of City's confidence and commitments. Should be a good game though as they'll both be throwing the kitchen sink at it. Fancy City will get the win they need as they are better than Roma - with or without Aguero.

City in Europa is what I want but I don't want then to completely drop out so if they go through I'll take that. If they finish bottom though that's one less distraction.

Why take the risk when you can win that game, secure qualification before the final match and possibly give someone like Loftus-Cheek a start?

 

Plus if Remy's injury was going to keep him out for the next couple of matches  (which it did) and you're missing your first-choice striker (which we were) then you need Drogba to get some minutes and form under his belt. Solanke still got 18 minutes in that match.

 

That's all very true but, it still boils down to the fact that our youth players are either not good enough or are but aren't ever going to be trusted. That's just the way I feel about it. I don't want them playing for the hell of it, but I'm just frustrated about hearing how great they are, seeing 4 minutes of them in a 3-0 home win and then disappearing via Arnhem. Matic obviously had the talent to be the linchpin in our midfield but it took Benfica to trust him and give him the chance to prove it. I think we can all agree that it would be fantastic if we could see a youth prospect make the step up to being a regular first team player. But I'm not holding my breath.

 

I think I'll leave this debate now as at the end of the day, I'm not a football coach, I've never discussed the players or policy with anyone at the club and I'm just the kind of fan who cheers for his team and is elated when they win and depressed and mildly angry when they don't. I'm confusing myself trying to decide whether we should be giving youth a chance. I'll let the club decide.

What circumstance would it take for city to end up in europa league ?

City's group show's just how w**k a system it is when you don't decide who wins on something as simple as goal difference. 

 

All this head to head nonsense and the like is overly complicated considering how black and white the goal difference system is. 

City through to keep English coefficient up.

City's group show's just how w**k a system it is when you don't decide who wins on something as simple as goal difference. 

 

All this head to head nonsense and the like is overly complicated considering how black and white the goal difference system is. 

Yep, I find it ridiculous as well that City and Liverpool could and could have qualified with 8 points while we couldn't in 2013 with 10 points and a bigger GD than Shahktar.

 

I don't think City will care too much about the Europa League, the effect won't be as much on them as being in the CL. It will be like when we were in it, fielding players like Moses, Ake and Benayoun.

City through to keep English coefficient up.

 

f**k the coefficient, would be hilarious if Arsenal didn't qualify because the 4th placed trophy was taken away from them. 

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

Has a team ever participated in the Champions League as much as Arsenal despite permanently being also-rans in their domestic league?

Edited December 10, 201411 yr by ForeverCarefree

The whole seeding thing is stupid anyway, how the hell are Arsenal still in pot 1? They do nothing domestically and absolutely nothing in Europe.

Edited December 10, 201411 yr by Slawth

I think head to head is much better in a short league phase, espiacially for the smaller teams that wanna defend and nick results. otherwise it often comes down to who can beat the whipping boys by the most and it's not really fair if one teams strengths are in attack and ones are in defence.