You are spot on mate. But that's my point, is it fair to expect rlc to be a runner? You can put iniesta and he would look average if you judge his role as a runner, same goes for kroos. But these are big names that I am throwing out so let's bring it down a notch.

When I look at rlc playing, I can draw so many comparisons with one player in recent time and that is Saul niguez. Both are good on the ball, have a good first touch, are good physically. Intact I would say rlc is better than what Saul was a year or 2 ago. But can rlc have that development? Can he get that faith from the manager and the fan base?

I also bring cesc into it (while some people would think its vendetta, I am sure atleast some would like to here me out). Let's look at atm's midfield, koke-gabi-Saul. Is either of them a "runner"? For me No. Not even close. And yet they are one of the best pressing teams. You don't need runners to have a high press. the different between us and atm is that each of those players can hold their own and more defensively. Can the same be said for cesc? For me, cesc can only play successfully with 2 defensive minded "runners". For me, rlc and cesc can't co exist. And it's very unfair to even judge the kid on a role he certainly is not suited for. So the choice is between a 29 year old with flaws that the world is aware of, or a 20 year old who is showing great signs and can yet be molded in different ways.

For me the answer is rlc. A long term solution from the academy. There is no vendetta. People might not like what they read but let's be clear everyone is here because they love the club. But some fans might want different things from others. No need to go about belittling others opinions just because they don't match yours

 

I agree with almost all of this, especially the whole 'Cesc and Ruben' can't coexist. Not unless we had peak Makalele around. Its obvious Ruben needs minutes on the pitch, not sure why Guus was so reluctant to play him and when he did wasted him in the 10 role. Nothing more frustrating than seeing Matic and Mikel on the pitch together with RLC on the bench. 

You are spot on mate. But that's my point, is it fair to expect rlc to be a runner? You can put iniesta and he would look average if you judge his role as a runner, same goes for kroos. But these are big names that I am throwing out so let's bring it down a notch.

When I look at rlc playing, I can draw so many comparisons with one player in recent time and that is Saul niguez. Both are good on the ball, have a good first touch, are good physically. Intact I would say rlc is better than what Saul was a year or 2 ago. But can rlc have that development? Can he get that faith from the manager and the fan base?

I also bring cesc into it (while some people would think its vendetta, I am sure atleast some would like to here me out). Let's look at atm's midfield, koke-gabi-Saul. Is either of them a "runner"? For me No. Not even close. And yet they are one of the best pressing teams. You don't need runners to have a high press. the different between us and atm is that each of those players can hold their own and more defensively. Can the same be said for cesc? For me, cesc can only play successfully with 2 defensive minded "runners". For me, rlc and cesc can't co exist. And it's very unfair to even judge the kid on a role he certainly is not suited for. So the choice is between a 29 year old with flaws that the world is aware of, or a 20 year old who is showing great signs and can yet be molded in different ways.

For me the answer is rlc. A long term solution from the academy. There is no vendetta. People might not like what they read but let's be clear everyone is here because they love the club. But some fans might want different things from others. No need to go about belittling others opinions just because they don't match yours

There is no way rlc has shown enough for us to sacrifice cesc and put 2 runners next to rlc.

Rlc stands out at youth level for 2 reasons, the 1st being how good his touch is for someone his size, and the 2nd is how well he carry the ball from deep.

He isn't a creative playmaker, and he isn't a free scoring midfielder. If he is to make it here, he needs to work on the tactical and defensive game, so become an effective box to box player, or a defensive midfielder, because there are much better academy prospects that are in the cesc fabregas mold.

I think rlc should have more game time in the deeper roles, as that will be where his future lies, so in that respect, I feel for him a bit. He isn't a number 10, and when he plays in that role, he doesn't take enough defensive responsibility imo.

Edited May 18, 201610 yr by big blue

I think rlc should have more game time in the deeper roles, as that will be where his future lies, so in that respect, I feel for him a bit. He isn't a number 10, and when he plays in that role, he doesn't take enough defensive responsibility imo.

 

Thing about RLC for me is he lacks the quality/craft to play at #10, lacks the agility/workrate (and arguably, the game intelligence) to play in the pivot, and lacks the talent/quality to be an effective "attacking midfielder"... for me "lung busting runs" are his only asset. Sorry to be so harsh on him but you can't polish a turd.

Edited May 18, 201610 yr by the special one

There is no way rlc has shown enough for us to sacrifice cesc and put 2 runners next to rlc.

Rlc stands out at youth level for 2 reasons, the 1st being how good his touch is for someone his size, and the 2nd is how well he carry the ball from deep.

He isn't a creative playmaker, and he isn't a free scoring midfielder. If he is to make it here, he needs to work on the tactical and defensive game, so become an effective box to box player, or a defensive midfielder, because there are much better academy prospects that are in the cesc fabregas mold.

I think rlc should have more game time in the deeper roles, as that will be where his future lies, so in that respect, I feel for him a bit. He isn't a number 10, and when he plays in that role, he doesn't take enough defensive responsibility imo.

Mate, I dont think RLC needs 2 runners alongside him. Again, I would like to draw comparision between RLC and Niguez. Saul does not need 2 runners. 

 

Obviously, he does need to work on the tactical and defensive part of his game, but how? By sitting on the bench watching mikel play in dead rubbers?

 

I dont think we need a midfielder who is of cesc mold. Which midfielder among  Lampard, Ballack, Essien, Makelele was of the "Cesc mold"? I think this "creative midfielder" thing has been overdone. What we need are more complete midfielders. I think RLC can be one easily.

 

I think we are looking at it a bit differently. Firstly, I think we need to go to 4-3-3. Be it with Cesc or RLC. a 3 man midfield suits them 10 folds than a pivot or a no.10. Thats my opinion. And I agree that RLC is no where near Cesc level "at the moment", but i also think he is the right person to take a risk with and make him a permanent fixture in the team. I also disagree that he has not shown enough. I think he has been very good for a 20 year old playing out of position. His performance against City (which shockingly is also his last start) was nothing short of phenomenal.

 

Like you said, his 2 main aspects are his touch and runs from the deep carrying the ball, which are 2 brilliant aspects. The rest can and will come with time and experience. Only question is are we ready to give him that time or do we again go after instant gratification? I personally want RLC.

 

PS - we gave oscar 4 years to prove himself. If RLC was not a chelsea product or was infact a brazillian playing for santos names Rubeninho, we would be looking to buy him for 20million pounds and make him into the next superstar. Since he is our academy product, we wont be willing to take 1% risk. I also think people have unrealistic expectations from the academy. We can only get "talented players" from the academy, not "complete plaers". We have to make them into one.

Edited May 20, 201610 yr by didierforever

As soon as we lost 2 games in a row, RLC was out of the team. Ironically he was the best player in those 2 games against Swanesa and City. The lack of faith from the managers is really hindering his development into the kind of player we want him to be. I think we should sell Oscar and push RLC higher in the pecking order.

No need to go about belittling others opinions just because they don't match yours

 

funny because in this very forum you belittled someone just because he thinks Cesc should be captain

Edited May 20, 201610 yr by magichat

Mate, I dont think RLC needs 2 runners alongside him. Again, I would like to draw comparision between RLC and Niguez. Saul does not need 2 runners.

Obviously, he does need to work on the tactical and defensive part of his game, but how? By sitting on the bench watching mikel play in dead rubbers?

I dont think we need a midfielder who is of cesc mold. Which midfielder among Lampard, Ballack, Essien, Makelele was of the "Cesc mold"? I think this "creative midfielder" thing has been overdone. What we need are more complete midfielders. I think RLC can be one easily.

I think we are looking at it a bit differently. Firstly, I think we need to go to 4-3-3. Be it with Cesc or RLC. a 3 man midfield suits them 10 folds than a pivot or a no.10. Thats my opinion. And I agree that RLC is no where near Cesc level "at the moment", but i also think he is the right person to take a risk with and make him a permanent fixture in the team. I also disagree that he has not shown enough. I think he has been very good for a 20 year old playing out of position. His performance against City (which shockingly is also his last start) was nothing short of phenomenal.

Like you said, his 2 main aspects are his touch and runs from the deep carrying the ball, which are 2 brilliant aspects. The rest can and will come with time and experience. Only question is are we ready to give him that time or do we again go after instant gratification? I personally want RLC.

PS - we gave oscar 4 years to prove himself. If RLC was not a chelsea product or was infact a brazillian playing for santos names Rubeninho, we would be looking to buy him for 20million pounds and make him into the next superstar. Since he is our academy product, we wont be willing to take 1% risk. I also think people have unrealistic expectations from the academy. We can only get "talented players" from the academy, not "complete plaers". We have to make them into one.

Obviously you rate rlc a lot higher than myself. I agree it would great to have a midfield with the same characteristics as lamps, essien, and Ballack, but it seems world class box to box midfielders are harder to get these days.

Do we need a deep lying playmaker like fabregas? Conte seems to prefer using one, as he has with pirlo and verratti. So I would think fabregas would be one of the first names on the team sheet, and the 2 players next to him in midfield, would have to complement him.

I don't think it's fair to compare rlc at 20 to Oscar at 20. Oscar had shown world class potential at that age. A hat trick in the under 20 world cup final, and one of the best full debuts I've ever seen for us against juve, I can see why the club put faith in him.

Rlc will get his chances under Conte I'm sure, hopefully conte can bring something out in him that sees him step up, at the moment I don't think he is quite good enough, and I think baker should have been the player getting 1st team chances.

Obviously you rate rlc a lot higher than myself. I agree it would great to have a midfield with the same characteristics as lamps, essien, and Ballack, but it seems world class box to box midfielders are harder to get these days.

Do we need a deep lying playmaker like fabregas? Conte seems to prefer using one, as he has with pirlo and verratti. So I would think fabregas would be one of the first names on the team sheet, and the 2 players next to him in midfield, would have to complement him.

I don't think it's fair to compare rlc at 20 to Oscar at 20. Oscar had shown world class potential at that age. A hat trick in the under 20 world cup final, and one of the best full debuts I've ever seen for us against juve, I can see why the club put faith in him.

Rlc will get his chances under Conte I'm sure, hopefully conte can bring something out in him that sees him step up, at the moment I don't think he is quite good enough, and I think baker should have been the player getting 1st team chances.

I agree with a lot of things you have said. But also disagree with a few. Pirlo was available at free and if I remember correctly juve's purse string were very tight. Hence its understandable in using Pirlo. And well verratti is a world class player. So using him in a deep midfielder role is obvious. I think cesc lacks the discipline as well as the defensive nuance to play the deep role as shown over and over this season. So I have my doubts about conte simply doing the same method here.

Oscar has been literally living off that juve game for 4 years. But that's a discussion for another thread and time. Rlc has not got the opportunity to prove himself. If he was a starter at Chelsea since 18, maybe we would have seen as good performances as oscar's against juve.

This is exactly why I want Rlc to be a fixture. At the end of last season no one gave baker a shot in hell. After a season full of first team action he has increased his chances of first team exponentially. And that's the point about youth.you have to play them to know them. I think Rlc has shown to be good enough despite playing once a month. And I honestly would take all the positives from his city performance over any negatives to go ahead.

This fella didn't do bad but can't say he's done anything spectacular either, sure he got very limited playing time but didn't quite see that spark when he plays.. maybe he's on gareth barry level type of player, no?

Considering what Barry has accomplished Id say most here would welcome that

Has he been picked for u21 Toulon tournament? If he has, some game time plus hopefully things he's learnt over the last few months fresh in his head might set him up ready for pre season.

Has he been picked for u21 Toulon tournament? If he has, some game time plus hopefully things he's learnt over the last few months fresh in his head might set him up ready for pre season.

Assisted Baker for the 1-0 winner in the first game against Portugal.

Assisted Baker and scored two in a MOTM performance...

Assisted Baker and scored two in a MOTM performance...

 

Against a piss poor Paraguay U23 side... (just to put it into perspective)

He was MOTM against a City side too which reached the CL semi and was 4th in the League. He can accomplish tasks set in front of him.

 

His situation is getting more and more like Lukaku's. "Oh he just scored for WBA, its not the same for chelsea". "Oh he just scored for everton, its not the same for chelsea". So I think in 3 years' time we would be looking to buy RLC for about 30/40mil pounds

He was MOTM against a City side too which reached the CL semi and was 4th in the League. He can accomplish tasks set in front of him.

 

 

what is it with you and his MOTM award against City? i swear this is the hundredth time i saw you pointing it out

Its absolutely baffling for me that a 20 year old can play the way RLC played that game and simply be benched without a reason. Hence my obsession.

what is it with you and his MOTM award against City? i swear this is the hundredth time i saw you pointing it out

 

He was decent against city, but he wasn't even the best Chelsea player on the pitch, let alone motm.

That performance is fast becoming mythic. He was better than many more experienced teammates and people judge youngsters more kindly. But don't get carried away.

The easiest site to look at player ratings is whoscored

so there you have it https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/959717/Live/England-Premier-League-2015-2016-Chelsea-Manchester-City

Our best rated player.

http://footballspider.net/channel/chelsea/news/story/y2c4b66zq7t/chelsea-0-3-manchester-city-premier-league-post-match-reaction

​

I think this is related to WAGNH and has the votes of all the fans. So the fans think he was our best player.

Against a piss poor Paraguay U23 side... (just to put it into perspective)

Man of the tournament as well. Have a look at some past winners for some "perspective".

Player of the tournament who got fcuk all game time under Hiddink..still drives me nuts

http://footballspider.net/channel/chelsea/news/story/y2c4b66zq7t/chelsea-0-3-manchester-city-premier-league-post-match-reaction

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I think this is related to WAGNH and has the votes of all the fans. So the fans think he was our best player.

In a desperate game that was our biggest home defeat for 6 years. I really wouldn't read too much into this.

A 6.8 rating on whoscored is hardly pulling up trees though ?

Seems to me, fans are really torn on RLC, I'm definitely in the category that thinks he isnt really all that and never will be.

Edited May 30, 201610 yr by Bobbywoodhogan