41 minutes ago, the special one said:

Ndombele, Ceballos, Kovacic, Rafinha

Kind of killed your own argument there then since none of those players are renowned for world class strikes from distance. 

 

29 minutes ago, big blue said:

Kind of killed your own argument there then since none of those players are renowned for world class strikes from distance.

Is RLC a CM though? I wouldn't say he is, all of those players have superior distribution.

As I said a couple of pages back I'm happy to have RLC back next season, it just wouldn't surprise me if we're nowhere near top 4.

Edited June 8, 20188 yr by the special one

3 minutes ago, the special one said:

Is RLC a CM though? I wouldn't say he is, all of those players have superior distribution.

As I said a couple of pages back I'm happy to have RLC back next season, it just wouldn't surprise me if we're nowhere near top 4.

It was tongue in cheek. 

I don't think RLC playing a part next season would severely hamper our results though. He has already proven at palace he is at the very least a capable premier league player. 

Is he good enough to start every game for us? Nobody knows for sure, I think he is the sort of player that will play better with better players around him, to take advantage of the space he creates. I don't see him as a player that will carry struggling teams, not yet anyway. 

 

On 08/06/2018 at 19:13, the special one said:

Ndombele, Ceballos, Kovacic, Rafinha

and not a single one has the overall game Ruben has with his build and defensive abilities. Ndombele closest but half a good season in the French league isn't much to go on, could be another Bakayoko.

Get him back in our starting XI next season, him and Kante will be exquisitely devastating, Covet this talent or he'll walk away, he wants PL game time..

Ndombele is incredible. Dare I say has a bit of Essien about him. He isn't a flat track bully either, his best game of the year was against PSG. Bit more to his game defensively than Ruben, but he won't be joining with Bakayoko and RLC already here.

I want to believe Ruben can make it, I think he will get a chance at the start of the season. It'll be up to him what he does with it. 

My challenge is how we fit him, Fabregas and Barkley as very attacking players into 5 midfielders. Our average number of midfielders in the squad when we played 433 was 5 plus a younger player/rotation.

2007-08: Lampard, Ballack, Makalele, Essien, Mikel with Sidwell.

2011-12: Lampard, Essien, Ramires, Mikel, Meireles with Romeu

I would see Ampadu as the sixth midfielder next season. I think we also need at least two new midfielders so we'd have to find spots for Kante, Fabregas, Bakayoko, Barkley, RLC, plus two midfielders and that's assuming Drinkwater leaves. 

On 07/06/2018 at 21:45, Scott Harris said:

If i was to nit pick, i would say the one thing he lacks is intensity. He's very tidy and holds the ball well, but he's somebody that likes to play the game at his own pace. I'm not sure how well that will work here because we need legs in that midfield and more intensity to our game, i also think it needs goals and Loftus-Cheek doesn't seem to have many of them in his game. This is why i would pick Barkley ahead of him at the moment.

I agree with this.

Did anyone see the half time of the game? Wright and Dixon were saying the exact same thing about his lack of itensity.

Edited June 10, 20188 yr by Bobbywoodhogan

14 minutes ago, Bobbywoodhogan said:

I agree with this.

Did anyone see the half time of the game? Wright and Dixon were saying the exact same thing about his lack of itensity.

Roy Hodgson seemed to think the same, as soon as he took over Palace he moved RLC out wide (if I had to guess because the possession turnovers were killing Palace defensively).

Edited June 10, 20188 yr by the special one

1 hour ago, Spiller86 said:

Ndombele is incredible. Dare I say has a bit of Essien about him. He isn't a flat track bully either, his best game of the year was against PSG. Bit more to his game defensively than Ruben, but he won't be joining with Bakayoko and RLC already here.

I want to believe Ruben can make it, I think he will get a chance at the start of the season. It'll be up to him what he does with it. 

My challenge is how we fit him, Fabregas and Barkley as very attacking players into 5 midfielders. Our average number of midfielders in the squad when we played 433 was 5 plus a younger player/rotation.

2007-08: Lampard, Ballack, Makalele, Essien, Mikel with Sidwell.

2011-12: Lampard, Essien, Ramires, Mikel, Meireles with Romeu

I would see Ampadu as the sixth midfielder next season. I think we also need at least two new midfielders so we'd have to find spots for Kante, Fabregas, Bakayoko, Barkley, RLC, plus two midfielders and that's assuming Drinkwater leaves. 

It does seem like we have an abundance of centre midfielders that have big question marks over them. I agree 5 is the magic number.

Kante is the only guarantee long term.

Fabregas will definately be here next season, as he only has 1 year left on his contract so I doubt he would be worth selling, and whether a team would match his wages.

Bakayoko will probably stick around as I can't see us getting our money back, and we paid a big fee for him, so I think club will hope he improves.

The 4th spot has to be a quality playmaker, whether that's jorginho, Seri, or as someone else.

That leaves Barkley, RLC, and Drinkwater. 

Barkley I think needs regular minutes, since been at a full season out injured, Maybe a loan somewhere to get his fitness back.

Drinkwater is expendable and I would expect him to be sold. 

Then it is the choice of going with RLC or sending out on loan again, and buying another player, then if all goes well, RLC can take fabregas's spot in 12 months time.

11 hours ago, big blue said:

It does seem like we have an abundance of centre midfielders that have big question marks over them. I agree 5 is the magic number.

Kante is the only guarantee long term.

Fabregas will definately be here next season, as he only has 1 year left on his contract so I doubt he would be worth selling, and whether a team would match his wages.

Bakayoko will probably stick around as I can't see us getting our money back, and we paid a big fee for him, so I think club will hope he improves.

The 4th spot has to be a quality playmaker, whether that's jorginho, Seri, or as someone else.

That leaves Barkley, RLC, and Drinkwater. 

Barkley I think needs regular minutes, since been at a full season out injured, Maybe a loan somewhere to get his fitness back.

Drinkwater is expendable and I would expect him to be sold. 

Then it is the choice of going with RLC or sending out on loan again, and buying another player, then if all goes well, RLC can take fabregas's spot in 12 months time.

I think you're pretty close big blue. Kante is the only player of our current midfield I would absolutely like to keep.

Fabregas might do okay in a system that lets the ball do the work and allows him to stay further forward. But his legs are gone in my view. Ideally we would sell him this season, but as you say that is unlikely.

I don't think Bakayoko suits Sarri's system at all (assuming that is who comes in) He might be a backup for Kante as the box-to-box player. But his touch and awareness on the ball suggest to me he isn't up to it. It really is appalling that Fabinho, the vastly superior player, went to Liverpool for 5m more. Again you're right we will keep him though.

That leaves two spots. Assuming we're signing at least one new midfielder we then have a straight shootout between Barkley and RLC. I agree Barkley on loan in a similar way to Zouma last summer makes sense in that context. 

Again there is much to answer for last summer's window. Bakayoko in particular. He looks a fish out of water now in Conte's system let alone in one that focuses on ball control and decision-making under pressure.

7 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

I think you're pretty close big blue. Kante is the only player of our current midfield I would absolutely like to keep.

Fabregas might do okay in a system that lets the ball do the work and allows him to stay further forward. But his legs are gone in my view. Ideally we would sell him this season, but as you say that is unlikely.

I don't think Bakayoko suits Sarri's system at all (assuming that is who comes in) He might be a backup for Kante as the box-to-box player. But his touch and awareness on the ball suggest to me he isn't up to it. It really is appalling that Fabinho, the vastly superior player, went to Liverpool for 5m more. Again you're right we will keep him though.

That leaves two spots. Assuming we're signing at least one new midfielder we then have a straight shootout between Barkley and RLC. I agree Barkley on loan in a similar way to Zouma last summer makes sense in that context. 

Again there is much to answer for last summer's window. Bakayoko in particular. He looks a fish out of water now in Conte's system let alone in one that focuses on ball control and decision-making under pressure.

Totally agree with bakayoko. I don't see any long term future for him here, especially under sarri. It would probably be better to cut our losses with him this summer, and free up funds and a foreign spot, for midfielder that is better suited.

I doubt the club will see it that way though.

5 minutes ago, big blue said:

Totally agree with bakayoko. I don't see any long term future for him here, especially under sarri. It would probably be better to cut our losses with him this summer, and free up funds and a foreign spot, for midfielder that is better suited.

I doubt the club will see it that way though.

I keep saying that on the Chelsea reddit page and keep getting downvoted into oblivion. Those guys have some sort of weird fetish for Bakayoko.

Just look at that situation, we must be realistic here, if Loftus-Cheek was staying with us, he was far away from being in the World Cup with England. But he made that because he proved himself at Crystal Palace and he deserves the spot in the National team. He also proves himself there, he shows good football, kept his good form and help Crystal Palace doing this season from worse to good. 

If you look at our team, especially the midfielders, then you might find only Kante, the only player that represents his national team in the world cup. No Fabregas, Drinkwater, Barkley, Bakayoko have played for their national team.

Loftus-Cheek was also injured this season, but he recovered and kept playing his football, so it's also an important point to take from his season.

I don't understand why we keep looking at negative points, didn't we want an experienced Premier League player from our academy? A player that can actually hold the ball and use his physical skills, dribbling skills, having a good speed and reaction. If he can improve himself at Crystal Palace, imagine how he could improve at Chelsea with better players, better coach team and different class team. Just give him a chance he needs.

36 minutes ago, IliyaKrostin said:

Just look at that situation, we must be realistic here, if Loftus-Cheek was staying with us, he was far away from being in the World Cup with England. But he made that because he proved himself at Crystal Palace and he deserves the spot in the National team. He also proves himself there, he shows good football, kept his good form and help Crystal Palace doing this season from worse to good. 

If you look at our team, especially the midfielders, then you might find only Kante, the only player that represents his national team in the world cup. No Fabregas, Drinkwater, Barkley, Bakayoko have played for their national team.

Loftus-Cheek was also injured this season, but he recovered and kept playing his football, so it's also an important point to take from his season.

I don't understand why we keep looking at negative points, didn't we want an experienced Premier League player from our academy? A player that can actually hold the ball and use his physical skills, dribbling skills, having a good speed and reaction. If he can improve himself at Crystal Palace, imagine how he could improve at Chelsea with better players, better coach team and different class team. Just give him a chance he needs.

Believe me, i'd love to be wrong about Ruben because ultimately it will benefit the club which is the most important thing. I spent the best part of 3 years trying to convince myself he's as good as being suggested, but honest truth is, 19 times out of 20 i watch him play i end up with more questions than answers, im not quite sure what type of player he is suppose to be and his managers don't seem to know either and seem to be improvising as they go along, Jose playing him in DM, Conte decided to try him up front, Roy on the wing.

As for the bolded part, that theory doesn't really work in practice and has failed on a lot of players, including the best player at the club he played for last season.

39 minutes ago, Argo said:

Believe me, i'd love to be wrong about Ruben because ultimately it will benefit the club which is the most important thing. I spent the best part of 3 years trying to convince myself he's as good as being suggested, but honest truth is, 19 times out of 20 i watch him play i end up with more questions than answers, im not quite sure what type of player he is suppose to be and his managers don't seem to know either and seem to be improvising as they go along, Jose playing him in DM, Conte decided to try him up front, Roy on the wing.

As for the bolded part, that theory doesn't really work in practice and has failed on a lot of players, including the best player at the club he played for last season.

Would you trust either Jose or Conte to nurture a young talent? Defenders yes because of the way they set up their teams.

Loftus-Cheek needs to be more busy if he wants to play for Sarri. One thing Sarri does not accept are static players.

1 minute ago, ducavis said:

Would you trust either Jose or Conte to nurture a young talent? Defenders yes because of the way they set up their teams.

Not really, but i'd expect they should know their best position (especially once they get into the 20's) and play them there in the limited time they do give him. If it was just one of them you could give the benefit of the doubt, but the fact three different managers have tried shoehorning him in totally different areas off the pitch is a massive red flag.

Im happy for him that he got in the world cup squad and i'd love to be wrong, but i simply can't see him having a long term future here, at least not as a starter. Also if Sarri joins then he has an even bigger mountain to climb given his lack of intensity and Sarri's insistence on such.

3 hours ago, Argo said:

Not really, but i'd expect they should know their best position (especially once they get into the 20's) and play them there in the limited time they do give him. If it was just one of them you could give the benefit of the doubt, but the fact three different managers have tried shoehorning him in totally different areas off the pitch is a massive red flag.

Im happy for him that he got in the world cup squad and i'd love to be wrong, but i simply can't see him having a long term future here, at least not as a starter. Also if Sarri joins then he has an even bigger mountain to climb given his lack of intensity and Sarri's insistence on such.

To be fair Hodgson played him as an 8 but RLC drifted inside an awful lot to balance Zaha who preferred to cut in from the left. Notationally, that’s where he played. But in practice, he  looked like a left-sided player of a diamond.

Club will likely sell him to Palace for 20 mill and keep Barkley, Bakajoko & DD. I'd rather he stayed and played regularly and Bakajoko & DD departed tbh, but this is Chelsea so dont expect the common sense logical decision. 

18 minutes ago, General said:

Club will likely sell him to Palace for 20 mill and keep Barkley, Bakajoko & DD. I'd rather he stayed and played regularly and Bakajoko & DD departed tbh, but this is Chelsea so dont expect the common sense logical decision. 

Or instead of those two options we could sign/promote someone actually good enough?

But the people that shipped Barkley from the Everton's treatment table to ours actually think he is good enough. I'm not sure on what evidence that opinion has been arrived at as he seems to have been injured for his entire career.

 

1 hour ago, WhiteWall said:

But the people that shipped Barkley from the Everton's treatment table to ours actually think he is good enough. I'm not sure on what evidence that opinion has been arrived at as he seems to have been injured for his entire career.

 

To be fair, the injury last season was his first major injury. I would keep him over Bakayoko and Drinkwater. Barkley has been hit and miss so far throughout his career, but he's better than both of those two players.

12 hours ago, Argo said:

Or instead of those two options we could sign/promote someone actually good enough?

Like who?

2 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Like who?

Hudson-odoi and Ampadu have both shown a higher level of performance and potential then Loftus-Cheek in a Chelsea shirt. Perhaps better to develop them instead of blocking their pathway into the first team with Loftus-Cheek and potentially stalling their development. 

1 minute ago, Total-Football said:

Hudson-odoi and Ampadu have both shown a higher level of performance and potential then Loftus-Cheek in a Chelsea shirt. Perhaps better to develop them instead of blocking their pathway into the first team with Loftus-Cheek and potentially stalling their development. 

So sell a CM to stop him blocking the path of a CB or winger? Ok then.