It's a rebuttal to Cech being called 'far from the perfect keeper' at 22/23. Nothing to do with Tibo.

 

Ah I see. Fair enough. Think I'm caught up in this whole 'Cech vs Courtois' thing.

 

I didn't use the word regarded quite deliberately, I've said many times that I watch TBO a lot when we was at Ateleit, and at no point did i ever think he was better the cech, he made some great camera saves and his dominance from the deep cross was impressive. But alot of that came as a result of his athletasisem, his positioning was always terrible and why he chooses not to have men on the post I will never understand. Men on the he post and he wins the CL.

 

Any way, TBO had a good season last year, not to the point I would refer to him as the best in the world but he had a good season, this one not been so good and a lot of what happens now comes down to his humility. 

 

The reason for the comparisons, is Enigma's statement that Cech was still a work in progress when actually he was the very best.

 

It's no longer relevent to make the comparisions as Cech is no longer a chelsea player 

 

I think what's important to note is that Cech had his very best seasons when our defence was at it's very best. I don't think he ever topped that 2004-2006 period and in his last couple of seasons here he'd have moments you'd describe as 'shaky', especially when dealing with crosses.

 

Courtois was probably viewed more favourably when he was at Atletico playing in a very-well drilled team with great defenders. I think great goalkeepers are the ones who can do nothing for 89 minutes and then be alert to make that one save they need to, but Courtois isn't in that position at the moment. He's horrendously exposed by a poor defence, so you get the error in the Stoke game that everyone highlights but forgets that he made a brilliant save from Shaqiri 20 minutes earlier.

 

It's why I'm at pains to defend him even though he says questionable stuff. He has all the tools to become the best keeper in the world but to do that you need to be part of a great defensive unit in my opinion. 

Tibo sticking the knife into Jose, saying that, "we needed a change of manager at that point" (once a downward spiral set in). Totally unacceptable comments, in my opinion. I mean, come on, what real difference has Hiddinck made for us and our season? We're out of the Champions League, out of the FA Cup and stand no chance of making it into Europe next season. Yes, admittedly, he stopped the losing rot, and has helped us break free of the fear of relegation (but we were never actually going to be relegated under Jose anyway). Yes, we're on an unbeaten run in the league, but we've had WAY too many draws in this run of ours... Ultimately, I think Tibo should look to himself and his own poor form before calling out Jose.

Edited March 23, 201610 yr by CFC-Forever

The news now is Chelsea value Courtois at £73m. United should obviously value De gea at £150m.

Lol, i will buy Courtois coffee and drive him to anywhere in the world for £30m.

Just curious, those who are for us selling Tbo who would you want to replace him? 

Just curious, those who are for us selling Tbo who would you want to replace him?

That's the problem, there isn't many keepers out there who are at the top level let alone be prepared to play at a club with no CL football.

Begovic is decent but he too has had a share of howlers and poor performances with us. I don't think he is good enough to be our number 1.

Courtois has had a very poor season just like 90% of our squad however he has shown before he has the ability and is still very young in terms of a goalkeeper.

It's ok people saying sell for x amount but when there isn't a player who could come in and offer the same value to the squad short/long terms then it's just silly.

If we are basing selling him on the back of a poor season then we will be left with just 3/4 players in the summer.

Ultimately, I think Tibo should look to himself and his own poor form before calling out Jose.

 

 

Well he did to be fair. Here's an interview from January in which he makes it clear that he believes that the players were at least as, if not more, responsible for our decline than José was:

 

 

"We know we are responsible as well. We had team meetings where we said the same, we said 'ok the manager has gone but we are responsible as well. We need to pick our level because we are not playing good enough for a Chelsea player'.

 

[...]

 

When results are not good the first one to get criticised is the manager, but it's not only the manager - the players have to take responsibility as well. We were the ones not playing as well.

 

[...]

 

It's something psychological. Sometimes it changes with little changes. Maybe we needed a change to pick up our level again, I don't know.

I don't think anyone in their right frame of mind would want Tibo sold, we have invested heavily in his development and even sold off one of our major assets in order to accommodate him.

 

It is understandable that he is going through a rough phase especially with our defensive frailties and inconsistencies, it is clear that his confidence is gone and hesitancy has creeped into his game , maybe some time out of the team working on his weaknesses and getting his confidence back on the training pitch wouldn't be a bad move.

The news now is Chelsea value Courtois at £73m. United should obviously value De gea at £150m.

Lol, i will buy Courtois coffee and drive him to anywhere in the world for £30m.

 

If we sold one of our keepers, who would you replace him with.

 

Enyeama

Just curious, those who are for us selling Tbo who would you want to replace him? 

If we can sell him big, then maybe Scuffet, Perin, Butland? 

If we sold one of our keepers, who would you replace him with.

 

I doubt he has thought that far ahead.

A player having a bad season despite having a good one before = sell him fast

 

Some fans  ...

A player having a bad season despite having a good one before = sell him fast

 

Some fans  ...

He was not safe even before, he did very well in Atletico, but with his "return" to Chelsea he did not show that level of performance and confidence. 

He was not safe even before, he did very well in Atletico, but with his "return" to Chelsea he did not show that level of performance and confidence.

Last season he did very well and had a high number of clean sheets.

We also had one of the best defensive records in the league if not the best.

How do you come to the conclusion he was somehow struggling?

If we can sell him big, then maybe Scuffet, Perin, Butland? 

 

So sell a still young proven goalkeeper for a younger unproven goalie?

If we sold one of our keepers, who would you replace him with.

Enyeama

I heard there's a pretty decent goalkeeper that will be £10 million at the very most. He's not super young but should outlast Conte based on recent manager statistics.

You'll find him across the city. Look for a guy wearing a black helmet.

It may have been a bad decision by Mourinho to promote Tibo over Cech, but they are both great keepers and a direct comparison is slightly unfair as there is a decade in between their ages

 

but as we now see with Gooners, Cech alone is not enough to elevate them to winning the prem as their back 4 are suspect

 

2 mitigating factors that make Tibo seem like he's having a poor season - Chelsea's woeful defending all season long, his injury 

 

Final judgement must be reserved for when he has a strong defence back in front of him, next season hopefully

Suggesting that we sell Courtois is absolutely ridiculous, although I definitely think he should be dropped for Begovic at the moment. A fair amount of the goals we've conceded recently should have been relatively straightforward for a keeper of his quality.

 

Also don't think Cech has had quite the unbelievable season that a lot of people are making out.

Suggesting that we sell Courtois is absolutely ridiculous, although I definitely think he should be dropped for Begovic at the moment. A fair amount of the goals we've conceded recently should have been relatively straightforward for a keeper of his quality.

Also don't think Cech has had quite the unbelievable season that a lot of people are making out.

No Cech hasn't had an unbelievable season, and now he is injured at an age when injuries take longer to heal (JT). But if we can get £30+ million for Courtois and buy Cech back for whatever amount (certainly way less than £30 million) then it would be a fantastic outcome from just about every angle.

Ironically Courtois leaving and Cech returning will increase stability at a time when we most need it.

To suggest Cech was anything other than world class at 23 is ludicrous. 

 

The news now is Chelsea value Courtois at £73m. United should obviously value De gea at £150m.

Lol, i will buy Courtois coffee and drive him to anywhere in the world for £30m.

£73 million truly is ridiculous...until you realize that di Maria cost that much

I wouldn't be surprised if Thibaut wants to go back to La Liga. His girlfriend is Spanish, and now they have a kid. He's seemed distracted in general this season, understandably. Becoming a parent makes you rethink all your priorities.

I don't think his heart is really committed to Chelsea, nor would I expect for a foreign player at this point in his career. It's a workplace that's interchangeable with several other possible workplaces. Now the family situation adds a reason to go back to Spain.

No Cech hasn't had an unbelievable season, and now he is injured at an age when injuries take longer to heal (JT). But if we can get £30+ million for Courtois and buy Cech back for whatever amount (certainly way less than £30 million) then it would be a fantastic outcome from just about every angle.

Ironically Courtois leaving and Cech returning will increase stability at a time when we most need it.

Then what do we do in 18 months time when we realize cech isn't any better Courtois and at 35/36 he needs replacing anyway.

Short termism at its finest!

Why not stick with the very good goalkeeper, with world class potential, 2 years prem experience, proven at European and international level, that cost us less than the 10m we sold cech for?

Edited March 23, 201610 yr by big blue

Then what do we do in 18 months time when we realize cech isn't any better Courtois and at 35/36 he needs replacing anyway.

Short termism at its finest!

Why not stick with the very good goalkeeper, with world class potential, 2 years prem experience, proven at European and international level, that cost us less than the 10m we sold cech for?

My situation was contingent upon us being able to get a £20+ million net gain on the deal. That will buy us a very good goalkeeper, who might be a nobody right now.

The scenario would ironically increase stability during this transition period. The younger players could really do with a mentor like Cech especially if JT leaves.

My situation was contingent upon us being able to get a £20+ million net gain on the deal. That will buy us a very good goalkeeper, who might be a nobody right now.

The scenario would ironically increase stability during this transition period. The younger players could really do with a mentor like Cech especially if JT leaves.

Courtois is a very good keeper already though, we got him for a bargain. Why would we want to sell him, for a relatively small profit, on the hope that whoever replaces MIGHT be better.

It makes no sense whatsoever. We would have fork out most if not all that net profit to replace cech in a year or twos time.

We don't need a short term solution to a problem we don't actually have.

Courtois is a very good keeper already though, we got him for a bargain. Why would we want to sell him, for a relatively small profit, on the hope that whoever replaces MIGHT be better.

It makes no sense whatsoever. We would have fork out most if not all that net profit to replace cech in a year or twos time.

We don't need a short term solution to a problem we don't actually have.

Courtois has given people reason to question whether he'll reliably perform at the very best in the future. There is no way to know without a crystal ball. With Cech we're guaranteed, even if his form dips as he ages, someone whose heart is there and who would be a very positive influence on the rest of the players at Cobham.

It's the classic question of what upside potential you're willing to sacrifice in exchange for a sure thing.

I dont want Coutois sold but if we get 30m for him, you gotta be kidding me if you think we cant get someone better here in the EPL for 20 or 30m.