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Jose and Transfers


Blue Daze

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Just something that came up in a couple of other threads, but did our transfer policy change radically when Jose came in?

 

It seemed like in the 2 seasons before Jose we focused on young talent who would likely appreciate in value. 

 

Hazard

Oscar

Mata

Luiz

Azpi

Romeu

Lukaku

Courtois

De Bruyne

Moses

Schurrle (scouted before Jose arrived apparently)

Van Ginkel (blighted by injuries)

 

as well as some value signings like Ba, Cahill, Meireles (bit panicky).

 

But since Jose arrived the big money seems to have gone on 'win now' moves

 

Costa

Fabregas

Willian

Cuadrado

Remy (closer to the Ba signing)

 

and worst of all, Filipe Luis. A player who is about 5th or 6th most expensive on our FFP books, has little re-sale value compared to his price and is very much a back-up.

 

Plus he brought back Drogba and signed Eto'o.

 

Now we've been praised for our transfer dealings but weren't we just selling off the young players who appreciated in value but were bought before Jose arrived (Luiz, Mata, Schurrle, Lukaku etc.).

 

I think the point is whether Jose is basically undoing a lot of the good work we were doing in the transfer market for the sake of winning now and whether that's a trend that will continue next season. We've still signed the likes of Zouma but we've also spent over £50 million on two right-wingers who are both 26 and might still not be the solution. I trust Jose most of the time but this is something that worries me a bit.

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Agreed.

We have spent the best part of £70 million on right wingers while Jose has been here (Salah, Willian and Cuardrado). That's a huge sum of money to pay when neither players so far look like they are at the top level of wide men in Europe.

Costa and Cesc are ready made footballers at this stage and both in their prime years and we really needed thse types of players in if we were to win the title again.

Jose has made some cracking signings since he came in but like every manager he has had a goof few questionable ones.

We let Salah go who is now scoring for fun in Italy while the player we got in place of him hasnt really been given enough time to do much but unlike Salah he has not hit the ground running.

We got rid of De Bruyne who looks like one of the Bundesliga's best midfielder this season and his stats are really impressive too in terms of golas and assists. The two of them never seen eye to eye and if I was to pick it would be Jose every time, these things happen in football.

Schurrle was always capable of scoring goals but he was pretty poor on the ball and didn't seem to have the technique to match his finishing.

Luis was one of the strangest signings for us in terms that he has hardly been used this season and at 30 years old we won't see much return on the investment, I like the player and think he deserves a shot but Jose clearly feels Azpi is his first choice LB. It would have made more sence to keep Bertrand than spend nearly £20 million on a back up player.

Remy I was happy with but again due to Joses lack of rotation and trust in players outwith his starting 11 he's been left out in the cold and will only appear for the odd cameo appearance which isn't going to get him into the form that he had previous to us. It's a shame as we have not been fair to the guy.

Judging by Jose's comments in the media of late he is looking to bring in some of the younger players next season to give them a chance but as always I remain unsure he will actually make good to his word on that one.

IF Cuardrado fails to impress next season questions will need to be asked about why we spent such a huge sum of money on right wingers who are not offering anything to the team.

Edited by Chelsbear
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Jose's signings have been a mixed bag since he came back. 

 

I look at signings such as Luis, Craudrado, Eto'o and Salah and think... What was the point? 

 

Then others such as Costa, Matic and Fabregas were brilliant. 

 

There's no middle ground though. 

 

He's bought in and got rid of Schurrle, Salah and De Bruyne all within 18 months and now Cuadrado here and he seems reluctant to give him game time. 

 

Throw in that he also sold Mata and that's about £120m's worth of attacking midfielders that haven't made an impact or been given a fair chance. 

 

Made I'm looking at it too simplistically but for that kind of money that's  been coming through the revolving door of our attacking midfield couldn't we just have targeted a real top quality winger? Gone all in for a Gareth Bale, Alexis Sanchez or Rues? 

 

Overall I think the transfers have been good but there is still room to improve. 

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I look at signings such as Luis, Craudrado, Eto'o and Salah and think... What was the point? 

 

I'm not so sure they were pointless - Eto'o was comfortably our best striker last season and was on a brilliant run of form before he got injured, it was great having such an intelligent player in front of Hazard and Oscar.

 

Luis I think is incredibly talented but has yet to have his defining moment in a Chelsea shirt - I can see why you have reservations (because admittedly I wouldn't start him over Azpilicueta, who is four years his junior) but I do have faith that he will turn out to be more than another Zhirkov - a clearly very talented, well-rounded player albeit signed too late and without much mind to the other squad members who might play in his position.

 

Cuadrado has admittedly failed to impress so far, but he hasn't yet even played enough minutes to complete two full matches, which is nowhere near enough gametime to make a concluding judgement. Salah admittedly didn't get a huge amount of gametime either, but was so woefully below par in the vast majority of his appearances that sending him out on loan didn't seem entirely unreasonable.

 

I guess my point is that these seem like the middle of the road transfers (other than Eto'o who I would argue was a success) you're arguing haven't really happened since Mourinho's return; certainly I don't think they were pointless (as of yet), although time may well prove you right.

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I'm not so sure they were pointless - Eto'o was comfortably our best striker last season and was on a brilliant run of form before he got injured, it was great having such an intelligent player in front of Hazard and Oscar.

 

I never liked Eto'o couldn't warm to him. 

 

We chased our tails all summer trying to sign Rooney it fell through and we signed Eto'o as a quick fix... It was just such an underwhelming signing for me. For a club of our stature to go into a season with a strike force of a past it Torres, Eto'o and Ba was a bit embarrassing in my opinion. 

 

Luis I think is incredibly talented but has yet to have his defining moment in a Chelsea shirt - I can see why you have reservations (because admittedly I wouldn't start him over Azpilicueta, who is four years his junior) but I do have faith that he will turn out to be more than another Zhirkov - a clearly very talented, well-rounded player albeit signed too late and without much mind to the other squad members who might play in his position.

 

Luis is an exceptionally talented left back but I just question signing an (almost) 29 year old for £16m who is effectively back up to a right back playing out of position. Just seems to be an odd use of transfer funds. 

 

Cuadrado has admittedly failed to impress so far, but he hasn't yet even played enough minutes to complete two full matches, which is nowhere near enough gametime to make a concluding judgement. Salah admittedly didn't get a huge amount of gametime either, but was so woefully below par in the vast majority of his appearances that sending him out on loan didn't seem entirely unreasonable.

 

Cuardado's issue with me is the timing, he's been bought in, we've reduced the squad numbers and there appears to be a reluctance to throw him into the team because he supposedly needs an extended bedding period. If you're reducing your options, why not wait until the summer to give him the pre-season and hit the ground running and just work with the squad you have. 

 

He had a world cup winner in Schurrle and Salah, although a pants is fairly experienced for a 21 year old... Just feels like a lot of upheaval for something that hasn't actually benefited us. 

 

 

I guess my point is that these seem like the middle of the road transfers (other than Eto'o who I would argue was a success) you're arguing haven't really happened since Mourinho's return; certainly I don't think they were pointless (as of yet), although time may well prove you right.

 

I said it in another thread, I feel, with attackers especially, we've had a bit of a scatter gun approach to the transfers. It's almost like trial and error... Signing and playing high quantities if there no immediate impact get rid of them and move onto the next. 

 

Rather than just investing in a truly top quality attacker we seem to be signing in bulk and hoping someone comes good. 

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FCC - I feel that your assessment of Azpilicueta as a "right back playing out of position" is very unfair. He's a very good left back in his own right as well as one of the league's best right backs. When we signed Luis it was clear that he was intended as Ashley Cole's replacement but who could have predicted that Dave would have taken to his new position like a duck to water? I thinks it's a bit harsh to use that as a reason to knock the Luis signing.

Edited by bluedave
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FCC - I feel that your assessment of Azpilicueta as a "right back playing out of position" is very unfair. He's a very good left back in his own right as well as one of the league's best right backs. When we signed Luis it was clear that he was intended as Ashley Cole's replacement but who could have predicted that Dave would have taken to his new position like a duck to water? I thinks it's a bit harsh to use that as a reason to knock the Luis signing.

We signed Luis when it was already established that Azpi was our first choice left back.

It was a strange signing given the amount of money spent and we could have just kept Bertrand if it was only a back up player we needed. £16 odd million for a guy who you don't rate as your first choice is a bit strange for me. Ivan was always going to be our right back not Azpi.

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FCC - I feel that your assessment of Azpilicueta as a "right back playing out of position" is very unfair. He's a very good left back in his own right as well as one of the league's best right backs. When we signed Luis it was clear that he was intended as Ashley Cole's replacement but who could have predicted that Dave would have taken to his new position like a duck to water? I thinks it's a bit harsh to use that as a reason to knock the Luis signing.

 

But Dave was already established as our first choice left back before signing Luis. 

 

Dave is a superb defender, maybe one of the best in one on one situations I've seen at Chelsea but his best position will always be at right back. 

 

Playing a right footed player at left back means you will always lose natural width and we often do, it's so rare for crosses to come in from our left because Hazard cuts inside more often than not and Dave doesn't venture forward all that much because he mostly can't provide decent width on the overlap. 

 

I'm a huge fan of Dave's but he is very much a player playing out of position and I just don't understand signing a 29 year old for £16m to be his understudy. 

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So because you didn't like Eto'o an couldnt warm to him that made him a bad signing? That is laughable.

 

And I couldn't warm to him because..... He wasn't very good. 

 

No away goals scored all season. 

 

Bad signing.

 

You overlooked the rest of what I said. 

 

"We chased our tails all summer trying to sign Rooney it fell through and we signed Eto'o as a quick fix... It was just such an underwhelming signing

For a club of our stature to go into a season with a strike force of a past it Torres, Eto'o and Ba was a bit embarrassing in my opinion"

 

Cherry picking what part of a post to comment on. That is laughable. 

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See that's the thing for me those moaning that Jose sold this player and that player look at the players themselves.

Mata wanted to leave yes he wasn't gettiny games but when he was playing he wasn't performing plus we got a huge amount for him.

De Brunye another who wasn't performing and had a bad attitude. Again we got a great amount for him. He's tearing up the Bundesliga, so what? Voronin and Pizzaro also have.

Lukaku, didn't have the attitude to stay and fight so was sold again for a huge fee.

Salah, looked dreadful for us and now just cause he's tearing up a poor league people are saying he should have stayed now based on that.

Bertrand didn't want to be backup. Fair enough sold for a nice fee.

Only one I was unsure of was Schurrle but he had been awful this season and aomething wasn't right with him so I think this one was almost out of Jose's hands.

It's funny how Jose gets the blame yet even before Jose returned we had made many mistakes in the transfers here.

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And I couldn't warm to him because..... He wasn't very good.

No away goals scored all season.

Bad signing.

You overlooked the rest of what I said.

"We chased our tails all summer trying to sign Rooney it fell through and we signed Eto'o as a quick fix... It was just such an underwhelming signing

For a club of our stature to go into a season with a strike force of a past it Torres, Eto'o and Ba was a bit embarrassing in my opinion"

Cherry picking what part of a post to comment on. That is laughable.

Guy scored plenty enough goals and against big teams to boot. His injury came at a bad time cause he was in great form. Not a bad signing at all imo.

It's laughable to cherry pick a part of your comment I didn't agree with? Ok then!

Edited by Bobbywoodhogan
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Guy scored plenty enough goals and against big teams to boot. His injury came at a bad time cause he was in great form. Not a bad signing at all imo.

It's laughable to cherry pick a part of your comment I didn't agree with? Ok then!

 

Because you disagreed with something that wasn't there, you've removed the context of my comment simplifying my opinion of a player on my warming to them or not.

 

I don't think he even managed double figures for the season in the league, that isn't very good.

 

His hat trick against United is a misrepresentation of his season with us, it gives a false impression of his contribution, one games goals account for 1/3 of the total league goals he scored. 

 

Ok then! 

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See that's the thing for me those moaning that Jose sold this player and that player look at the players themselves.

Mata wanted to leave yes he wasn't gettiny games but when he was playing he wasn't performing plus we got a huge amount for him.

De Brunye another who wasn't performing and had a bad attitude. Again we got a great amount for him. He's tearing up the Bundesliga, so what? Voronin and Pizzaro also have.

Lukaku, didn't have the attitude to stay and fight so was sold again for a huge fee.

Salah, looked dreadful for us and now just cause he's tearing up a poor league people are saying he should have stayed now based on that.

Bertrand didn't want to be backup. Fair enough sold for a nice fee.

Only one I was unsure of was Schurrle but he had been awful this season and aomething wasn't right with him so I think this one was almost out of Jose's hands.

It's funny how Jose gets the blame yet even before Jose returned we had made many mistakes in the transfers here.

 

The issue is that every single one of those players except Salah was sold for a profit.

 

Jose's signings have very little re-sale value.

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We signed Luis when it was already established that Azpi was our first choice left back.

It was a strange signing given the amount of money spent and we could have just kept Bertrand if it was only a back up player we needed. £16 odd million for a guy who you don't rate as your first choice is a bit strange for me. Ivan was always going to be our right back not Azpi.

 

Actually yeah I remembered that wrong, Dave was keeping Cole out of the side last season as well.

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I actually think Luis is a good signing, he just isn't used enough. I like his tackling style and his crossing.

 

I think Remy is a good signing too and just like Luis i think he is under used.

 

Salah has to be seen as a waste of time because he was never really used and i personally think we have wasted our money on Willian, £30 million for a workhorse............we can do better than that. We will just have to wait and see what happens with Cuadrado.

 

Fabregas and Diego Costa have been very good signings. And Zouma is a very good young player and could go on to be great for us.

 

Overall i am happy with Jose Mourinho's transfers so far.

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I actually think Luis is a good signing, he just isn't used enough. I like his tackling style and his crossing.

 

I think Remy is a good signing too and just like Luis i think he is under used.

 

Salah has to be seen as a waste of time because he was never really used and i personally think we have wasted our money on Willian, £30 million for a workhorse............we can do better than that. We will just have to wait and see what happens with Cuadrado.

 

Fabregas and Diego Costa have been very good signings. And Zouma is a very good young player and could go on to be great for us.

 

Overall i am happy with Jose Mourinho's transfers so far.

 

I don't think Remy was a Mourinho signing.

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Guess depends if you view the gross fee for a replacement LB or the net fee.  We did get 10million for Bertrand and I would say Luis is certainly a player worth the 6 mill difference.  He is proven at the highest levels and (this was far more important before Zouma grabbed his chances so well) if Terry (or any CB, but Terry most likely) hit injury his position in the squad would of allowed us to switch Azpi to RB and Ivan back into the middle.  Dont think any of us would be as confident of that back four if it was Bertrand vs Luis.

 

I agree though, I think Mourinho has made his moves for instant success and not for long term plans (though with squad age one could say we had the long term already in place and merely needed to refresh some of the experienced player positions that were vacated over past seasons).  Considering the demand for immediate success, I cant entirely blame him.

 

RW trades have been worrying, especially as Sanchez went for similar fee to what we've spent on two inferior players (in my opinion).  

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Guess depends if you view the gross fee for a replacement LB or the net fee.  We did get 10million for Bertrand and I would say Luis is certainly a player worth the 6 mill difference.  He is proven at the highest levels and (this was far more important before Zouma grabbed his chances so well) if Terry (or any CB, but Terry most likely) hit injury his position in the squad would of allowed us to switch Azpi to RB and Ivan back into the middle.  Dont think any of us would be as confident of that back four if it was Bertrand vs Luis.

 

I agree though, I think Mourinho has made his moves for instant success and not for long term plans (though with squad age one could say we had the long term already in place and merely needed to refresh some of the experienced player positions that were vacated over past seasons).  Considering the demand for immediate success, I cant entirely blame him.

 

RW trades have been worrying, especially as Sanchez went for similar fee to what we've spent on two inferior players (in my opinion).  

 

Excellent point on Bertrand. I suppose with the increased wages then it may well just be £10 million net over 3 years, and we also got rid of Cole whose wages were quite high. In that regard it probably isn't that much of a hit at all.

 

The Sanchez deal (despite him having a bit of a dip in form) did make our move for Willian seem much worse, but Cuadrado still has time and maybe he can start that this Sunday.....against Bertrand possibly.

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Broadly speaking, I think he's done fantastic work in the market. The ultimate aim is to win the league and we're 5 points ahead. He's also done that on a profit in the last few windows.

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Only real regret is probably de bruyne. Not sure where this talk of he had his chance, had a bad attitude etc. He only made 9 appearances, played very well in his first game, then wasn't given any opportunity to acclimatise to a new league and new team mates.

We started under jose with hazard, Mata, Oscar, schurrle, de bruyne, and willian.

Are we better off now? Not in that department but we have improved in other areas. I guess the most worrying thing is that despite all this quality and various abilities from the options we had available, we still struggle attacking.

I think Mourinho should have had us playing better going forward, with the players he has had to work with. At the moment it's still very much give it to hazard, which was the case last season. There was good signs in the earlier part of the season, but we now look as poor as last season in the final 3rd.

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