The main thing that lets Alonso down is a lack of any real pace, if a player knocks it around him he isn't able to recover that quickly. 
But in terms of tackling, aerial ability and positioning I rate him a lot higher than Baba who looked out of his depth when playing for us. 
I don't think Alonso is a great player but he's been doing a solid job there and looks to have bought some nice balance to the team since he came in. 

Agree with you, except about the degree of difference between the two. Alonso looked cumbersome in a 4 backline as well. Also the the attributes which give Alonso an advantage over Baba are negated somewhat by the position he would play in the system, so I'd still like to see how he would do.

I feel we can swop Alonso out for a more aggressive WB and a DM for a more rounded player (Nainggolan?) to improve our quality. We can get harassed by a high press because the back 7 has only Luiz as a technically gifted player (Matic in form as well).

Appears Baba is maturing into the LWB role.

http://ghanasoccernet.com/baba-rahman-excels-in-wing-back-role-for-german-giants-schalke-04

http://ghanasoccernet.com/baba-rahman-provides-yet-another-assist-in-schalke-loss-at-hamburg-in-bundesliga

http://pulse.com.gh/sports/bundesliga-baba-rahman-provides-assist-in-schalke-draw-id5909589.html

Am just wondering if he could actually offer some kind of competition for Alonso next season?

Well if not, apparently Koeman has been sniffing around him for a £20m permanent move. If he's not going to fit in with us, getting all our money back on him would be a right touch.

 

I would rather see Kennedy giving a chance at LWB than Baba. I get the feeling Kennedy would be excellent at LWB.

On 9/16/2016 at 00:54, Jon Stakes said:

a) It wasn't on the weekend. It was on Monday.

b) The Papy thread is closed, so where?

c) Not to blame for the first goal (Lukaku was being marked by Kone), but did not have his best day. Pretty much manhandled by Lukaku. Overall still mostly had a good season with Sunderland. Overall Sunderland fans are happy.

d) Gueye is easily better than Kante. At least this season. Everton will be a threat for a CL slot.

I just accidentally stumbled upon this point D, I can't believe anyone on the planet can think that

59 minutes ago, barak81 said:

I just accidentally stumbled upon this point D, I can't believe anyone on the planet can think that

Well to be fair to Jon, Gueye plays for Senegal where as Kante plays for France therefore Gueye is infinitely better.

No further argument needed.

On 1.01.2017 at 11:30, barak81 said:

I just accidentally stumbled upon this point D, I can't believe anyone on the planet can think that

Few pointers:

1. Everyone at Everton thinks that. Ask your average fan. Easily their best player. Cost less and gives the same, if not more.

2. Gueye was deemed better than Kante in France. He had better stats and everything.

3. Gueye was first choice at Leicester City. Kante was second choice.

4. Gueye's stats last season were second in Europe. Second to Kante. That's playing for lowly Aston Villa.

5. This season however his stats are above Kante's in most areas:

GUEYE vs KANTE

Aerial won: 1,3 vs 0,7

Tackles: 4,9 vs 3,1

Interceptions: 2,3 vs 2,8

Fouls comm.: 1,6 vs 1,3

Fouled: 1,5 vs 0,5

Dribbles: 1,7 vs 1

Dispossed: 1,2 vs 0,6

Unsuccessful touches: 0,7 vs 1,3

Passing: 84,8% vs 89,2%

AVG Duels won: 53% vs 43%

Tackles won: 49% vs 40%

 

Naturally stats aren't everyone, but Gueye is better than Kante in most stats, mildly worse in some areas. 

Gueye and Kante are very similar players. The difference between them is that one made a right career choice, the other didn't.

Kante is a far superior footballer

It's just that simple 

59 minutes ago, Jon Stakes said:

Few pointers:

1. Everyone at Everton thinks that. Ask your average fan. Easily their best player. Cost less and gives the same, if not more.

2. Gueye was deemed better than Kante in France. He had better stats and everything.

3. Gueye was first choice at Leicester City. Kante was second choice.

4. Gueye's stats last season were second in Europe. Second to Kante. That's playing for lowly Aston Villa.

5. This season however his stats are above Kante's in most areas:

GUEYE vs KANTE

Aerial won: 1,3 vs 0,7

Tackles: 4,9 vs 3,1

Interceptions: 2,3 vs 2,8

Fouls comm.: 1,6 vs 1,3

Fouled: 1,5 vs 0,5

Dribbles: 1,7 vs 1

Dispossed: 1,2 vs 0,6

Unsuccessful touches: 0,7 vs 1,3

Passing: 84,8% vs 89,2%

AVG Duels won: 53% vs 43%

Tackles won: 49% vs 40%

 

Naturally stats aren't everyone, but Gueye is better than Kante in most stats, mildly worse in some areas. 

Gueye and Kante are very similar players. The difference between them is that one made a right career choice, the other didn't.

There are only 2 stats that matter here, one was the driving force in his team winning the league last season , the other did little to stop his team being relegated.

 

you are insane and beyond the point of debate 

1 hour ago, Jon Stakes said:

Few pointers:

1. Everyone at Everton thinks that. Ask your average fan. Easily their best player. Cost less and gives the same, if not more.

2. Gueye was deemed better than Kante in France. He had better stats and everything.

3. Gueye was first choice at Leicester City. Kante was second choice.

4. Gueye's stats last season were second in Europe. Second to Kante. That's playing for lowly Aston Villa.

5. This season however his stats are above Kante's in most areas:

GUEYE vs KANTE

Aerial won: 1,3 vs 0,7

Tackles: 4,9 vs 3,1

Interceptions: 2,3 vs 2,8

Fouls comm.: 1,6 vs 1,3

Fouled: 1,5 vs 0,5

Dribbles: 1,7 vs 1

Dispossed: 1,2 vs 0,6

Unsuccessful touches: 0,7 vs 1,3

Passing: 84,8% vs 89,2%

AVG Duels won: 53% vs 43%

Tackles won: 49% vs 40%

 

Naturally stats aren't everyone, but Gueye is better than Kante in most stats, mildly worse in some areas. 

Gueye and Kante are very similar players. The difference between them is that one made a right career choice, the other didn't.

Stats can be misleading.

Have a look at this comparison:

 

We've got Gueye, Kante and Mystery Player #75.

Now Gueye has a impressive 71 tackles, more than anyone else in the league. But when you look at the stats behind them, that's only 49% successful tackles, meaning he's still failed 51% of the time. Our mystery player has 49% as well, so the same success rate.

Take Ons he has 20, that's 77%, pretty good, better than Kante, but our mystery player has a higher success rate at 82%, so is he better at take-ons then?

And finally Aerial, Gueye is ahead in that category of the 3 players, no question there, although Kante is about 3 inches shorter than him.

You've also got to take into account the teams they play for, some of these teams will have a lot more defending to do than others.

 

Now that brings me to our mystery player. He's a better tackler than Kante, he's better in the air than Kante, and he's better at take-ons than Kante. In all 3 stats he's better, plus he's even committed less fouls and from a more defensive team! So does that actually make him a better player than Kante? Should we rush out and sign this mystery player based on these stats?

 

I'll let you reveal who that player is and get back to me...

 

 

Edited January 3, 20179 yr by Zeta Orionis

20 minutes ago, barak81 said:

There are only 2 stats that matter here, one was the driving force in his team winning the league last season , the other did little to stop his team being relegated.

 

you are insane and beyond the point of debate 

To be fair this is the same person who insisted that Papy was the best defender at Chelsea and regularly tried to use stats to reinforce that argument. 

Given that Papy is arguably one of the worst performing defenders in the Premier League this season I don't think it's worth engaging in another "who is better" discussion. 

17 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

To be fair this is the same person who insisted that Papy was the best defender at Chelsea and regularly tried to use stats to reinforce that argument. 

Given that Papy is arguably one of the worst performing defenders in the Premier League this season I don't think it's worth engaging in another "who is better" discussion. 

He's arguably the worst defender I've ever seen, embarrassing he's called a professional. As for gueye bring better than Kante, when was gueye at Leicester? 

2 minutes ago, dkw said:

He's arguably the worst defender I've ever seen, embarrassing he's called a professional. As for gueye bring better than Kante, when was gueye at Leicester? 

No, he was Leicester's first choice. When Gueye joined Aston Villa, Leicester opted for Kante as their second choice. That's pretty much an established fact.

1 minute ago, Jon Stakes said:

No, he was Leicester's first choice. When Gueye joined Aston Villa, Leicester opted for Kante as their second choice. That's pretty much an established fact.

Established by who? 

5 minutes ago, dkw said:

He's arguably the worst defender I've ever seen, embarrassing he's called a professional. As for gueye bring better than Kante, when was gueye at Leicester? 

Not even close. Statwise he's amongst the best. He's had a few bad games, but overall he's been better than Lamine Kone.

Just now, dkw said:

Established by who? 

Really? You want me to fact check for you?

Steve Walsh, the guy that brought in Kante to Leicester and now Gueye to Everton, confirmed it many times.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3787115/Idrissa-Gueye-cost-Everton-7m-Leicester-wanted-signed-N-Golo-Kante-Steve-Walsh-unearthed-diamond.html

Sorry, but everyone rates Gueye after his Everton displays. You should at least accept he's comparable to Kante. 

 

Stats say one thing, actually watching him days the opposite. he's dogsh*t, utter dogsh*t.

Oh well then, if Steve Walsh says so then he must be better.

 

I'm out, your insane.

33 minutes ago, Zeta Orionis said:

Stats can be misleading.

Have a look at this comparison:

 

We've got Gueye, Kante and Mystery Player #75.

Now Gueye has a impressive 71 tackles, more than anyone else in the league. But when you look at the stats behind them, that's only 49% successful tackles, meaning he's still failed 51% of the time. Our mystery player has 49% as well, so the same success rate.

Take Ons he has 20, that's 77%, pretty good, better than Kante, but our mystery player has a higher success rate at 82%, so is he better at take-ons then?

And finally Aerial, Gueye is ahead in that category of the 3 players, no question there, although Kante is about 3 inches shorter than him.

You've also got to take into account the teams they play for, some of these teams will have a lot more defending to do than others.

 

Now that brings me to our mystery player. He's a better tackler than Kante, he's better in the air than Kante, and he's better at take-ons than Kante. In all 3 stats he's better, plus he's even committed less fouls and from a more defensive team! So does that actually make him a better player than Kante? Should we rush out and sign this mystery player based on these stats?

 

I'll let you reveal who that player is and get back to me...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

It's irrelevant. The one stat that stands out is Gueye 71 tackles with a 49% success rate to Mystery Man's 33 (who BTW is Jake Livemore).

Honestly: Ask any Everton fan or just go read their forum. Its not just about stats.

3 minutes ago, dkw said:

Oh well then, if Steve Walsh says so then he must be better.

 

I'm out, your insane.

Steve Walsh... you know the guy behind all the purchases for Leicester that helped them be champions? The guy that actually made Ngolo Kante a household name? The guy who is the sole reason Ngolo Kante is with Chelsea?

7 minutes ago, Jon Stakes said:

It's irrelevant. The one stat that stands out is Gueye 71 tackles with a 49% success rate to Mystery Man's 33 (who BTW is Jake Livemore).

Honestly: Ask any Everton fan or just go read their forum. Its not just about stats.

Yeah and ask any Chelsea fan and read our forum and you'll see they say Kante. Of course they are going to be biased towards their own player. 

 

In fairness, Gueye is a superb player. Not saying hes better, but for the prive Everton paid hes been the best signing of the season for me

19 minutes ago, Jon Stakes said:

Not even close. Statwise he's amongst the best. He's had a few bad games, but overall he's been better than Lamine Kone.

See here you go again trying to defend Papy with stats. 

It's not a few bad games is it, it's basically nearly every game he's making bad mistakes. He's a big reason why Sunderland have the third worst defensive record in the league this season. 

Should we see what the Sunderland fans think of him (hint, not much)

21 minutes ago, Jon Stakes said:

No, he was Leicester's first choice. When Gueye joined Aston Villa, Leicester opted for Kante as their second choice. That's pretty much an established fact.

Well that's worked out terribly for Leicester and us (so far).

Don't have to look far to see what the commen link is with regards to both teams success over the last season and a half. 

As for Everton fans liking Gueye, if your main alternative is Darron Gibson of course you'd be thrilled with Gueye. 

28 minutes ago, Jon Stakes said:

Not even close. Statwise he's amongst the best. He's had a few bad games, but overall he's been better than Lamine Kone.

Stats can only show you so much the reason Djilobodji has really impressive stats is he is physically very impressive and very good in the air and strong in the tackle this also means that rating sites like whoscored will always give him a decent rating as he is constantly high scoring in these stats, however what it doen't show is that his positional sense is actually very poor (as this is very hard to create a stat for) and this is why he has cost Sunderland a lot of goals and points this season. Stats are useful to help justify what you can see by watching the game but you are never going to be able to convince people something different to there beliefs by quoting stats alone.

On Gueye vs Kante,
Kante has massively improved the fortunes of the two teams he has been at in the prem, he was a large part (a lot would say the main part) in making a very average Leicester team Champions and has also helped transform us back to world beaters.
Whereas Gueye hasn't manage to do this with either Aston Villa or Everton.

This clearly highlights that there is something the stats you have quoted aren't showing.

Edited January 3, 20179 yr by PedroMendez

20 minutes ago, PedroMendez said:

On Gueye vs Kante,
Kante has massively improved the fortunes of the two teams he has been at in the prem, he was a large part (a lot would say the main part) in making a very average Leicester team Champions and has also helped transform us back to world beaters.
Whereas Gueye hasn't manage to do this with either Aston Villa or Everton.

This clearly highlights that there is something the stats you have quoted aren't showing.

Gueye entered the worst Aston Villa side in history. So not much he could do, but he was still doing his best impression of a one man army.

Everton finished last season on 11th during a period that Liverpool, Chelsea, Man Utd were in transition. Everton are now 7th, just behind the big 6.

Before that Gueye was the key behind Lille's Ligue 1 successes and Lille fell apart after he left (not only him, but he was the biggest loss since Hazard).

A lot of people have Gueye as the signing of the season and most Everton fans have him as their player of the season. Even Xfactor confirmed it.

As for Kante: He's done great, but Chelsea only went from OK to great after Conte changed the formation and suddenly the 'useless' / 'not Chelsea grade' Victor Moses is the first player on most people starting list. Kante is a valuable addition, but there are obviously much deeper problems at play behind last season dire run and this season's rejuvenation. Kante was a vital cog, but just one of many changes enacted by Conte. I'm pretty sure Gueye would have done just as well.

Can we just leave it at both players are great? The facts pretty much point to that. Gueye and Kante are very similar players and comparable on so many levels.