6 minutes ago, Jon Stakes said:

Can we just leave it at both players are great? The facts pretty much point to that. Gueye and Kante are very similar players and comparable on so many levels.

Of course Gueye is very good player and the stats do back what he is clearly very good at he is  a great disruptor of play, maybe even a better disruptor of play than Kante, but I think Kante offers a lot more in his overall game and adds a transition from defense to attack which I don't think Gueye has quite the engine to do.   

There are only 2 stats that matter here, one was the driving force in his team winning the league last season , the other did little to stop his team being relegated.
 
you are insane and beyond the point of debate 

Grow up! Why the abusive words?

I have no idea why someone on a Chelsea forum would be going to such lengths to try to show that a Everton player is better than a League winning, League topping, European final Kante.

It's simply bizarre to me given the fact Kante was the best player in the league last season and has been a huge part of us being where we are today.

5 minutes ago, Chelsbear said:

I have no idea why someone on a Chelsea forum would be going to such lengths to try to show that a Everton player is better than a League winning, League topping, European final Kante.

It's simply bizarre to me given the fact Kante was the best player in the league last season and has been a huge part of us being where we are today.

Basically it's because gueye is African, kante isn't.

Stats can only show you so much the reason Djilobodji has really impressive stats is he is physically very impressive and very good in the air and strong in the tackle this also means that rating sites like whoscored will always give him a decent rating as he is constantly high scoring in these stats, however what it doen't show is that his positional sense is actually very poor (as this is very hard to create a stat for) and this is why he has cost Sunderland a lot of goals and points this season. Stats are useful to help justify what you can see by watching the game but you are never going to be able to convince people something different to there beliefs by quoting stats alone.

On Gueye vs Kante,
Kante has massively improved the fortunes of the two teams he has been at in the prem, he was a large part (a lot would say the main part) in making a very average Leicester team Champions and has also helped transform us back to world beaters.
Whereas Gueye hasn't manage to do this with either Aston Villa or Everton.

This clearly highlights that there is something the stats you have quoted aren't showing.

If Gueye and Kante swap teams right now, most people will take Gueye over Kante.

5 minutes ago, wallosh said:

If Gueye and Kante swap teams right now, most people will take Gueye over Kante.

No they wouldn't.

Why do folk feel the need to lie on here, stop being so ridiculous for goodness sake.

Kante had a rare average game last night and all of a sudden some Everton player would be better for us and is the better footballer.

Never mind the fact he's achieved sod all compared to Kante and Kante bossed the EPL last season while doing the same this season sitting pretty at the top of the table while Everton....

It was the same mince about papy last season when posters tried to throw stats in our face despite the guy making a pigs ear of it every other game (and continuing to do so this season).

 

Edited January 5, 20179 yr by Chelsbear

No they wouldn't.

Why do folk feel the need to lie on here, stop being so ridiculous for goodness sake.

Am not being ridiculous am just being realistic. Mind you am not a fan of Gueye. I will Kante over him because he is our player. But anytime I see Gueye play I see a similar player to Kante. Not an upgrade and not an inferior player to Kante.

1 minute ago, wallosh said:

Am not being ridiculous am just being realistic. Mind you am not a fan of Gueye. I will Kante over him because he is our player. But anytime I see Gueye play I see a similar player to Kante. Not an upgrade and not an inferior player to Kante.

Well why would most take him over Kante which is what you posted?

I mean Kante is one of if not the best central midfielder in the premier league and was the best last season. Gueye wasn't. Kante won the league with many saying he was the big reason Leicester won the title and now is helping Chelsea be 5 points clear at the top in January. What is Gueye doing?

Kante has been in brilliant form for over 18 months now and got tot he final of the Euros with France too. I simply don't see any reason anyone would take an inferior player over Kante.

 

This debate is boyond pointless imo, but lets not act like Kanté and Gueye had played on sinilar teams. Theres a monumental difference between the talents in those teams.

8 hours ago, Chelsbear said:

I have no idea why someone on a Chelsea forum would be going to such lengths to try to show that a Everton player is better than a League winning, League topping, European final Kante.

It's simply bizarre to me given the fact Kante was the best player in the league last season and has been a huge part of us being where we are today.

My comments on Gueye originated from me suggesting Chelsea buy Gueye and being ridiculed for the suggestion. Then Chelsea went on and bought Kante. Now someone restarted the debate from a few months back and it wasn't me.

Edited January 5, 20179 yr by Jon Stakes

1 hour ago, Xfaxtor said:

This debate is boyond pointless imo, but lets not act like Kanté and Gueye had played on sinilar teams. Theres a monumental difference between the talents in those teams.

Gueye was widely held as the superior player for as long as Gueye was on the bigger team (Lille) and Kante was on the lesser team (Caen). 

So far the difference between the players mostly boils down to career choices.

Well why would most take him over Kante which is what you posted?

I mean Kante is one of if not the best central midfielder in the premier league and was the best last season. Gueye wasn't. Kante won the league with many saying he was the big reason Leicester won the title and now is helping Chelsea be 5 points clear at the top in January. What is Gueye doing?
Kante has been in brilliant form for over 18 months now and got tot he final of the Euros with France too. I simply don't see any reason anyone would take an inferior player over Kante.

 

Alright, it's an opinion!

12 minutes ago, Jon Stakes said:

Gueye was widely held as the superior player for as long as Gueye was on the bigger team (Lille) and Kante was on the lesser team (Caen). 

So far the difference between the players mostly boils down to career choices.

Gueye is older than kante, so of course he was ahead of him, something you seem to have forgotten to mention. But who was regarded as the best player when young has literally zero to do with how they are regarded now so I don't know why you keep bringing it up.

Edited January 5, 20179 yr by dkw

On 5.01.2017 at 19:51, dkw said:

Gueye is older than kante, so of course he was ahead of him, something you seem to have forgotten to mention. But who was regarded as the best player when young has literally zero to do with how they are regarded now so I don't know why you keep bringing it up.

There is almost nothing literally between these two players. And if anything Gueye has the better stats. So yeah... it all adds up.

Chances are that had Gueye chosen Leicester and Kante Villa, their teams would have the exact same positions and stats.

STATS

30 minutes ago, Jon Stakes said:

There is almost nothing literally between these two players. And if anything Gueye has the better stats. So yeah... it all adds up.

Chances are that had Gueye chosen Leicester and Kante Villa, their teams would have the exact same positions and stats.

18 months is literally nothing? Erm, pretty sure it's significant.

There is almost nothing literally between these two players. And if anything Gueye has the better stats. So yeah... it all adds up.
Chances are that had Gueye chosen Leicester and Kante Villa, their teams would have the exact same positions and stats.

You forgot to add that if Kante is still at Leicester, they still won't end up in top 10 this season. And if Kante is at Everton right now, they still won't' make top 4.

update on Baba - apparently Baba was injured in Ghana's AFCON match vs Uganda & has returned back to Schalke for treatment

Confirmed he's torn his ACL at the AFCON. Very unfortunate, can bet the shocking standard of pitches over there didn't help.

That's terrible news.

We'll have to look elsewhere for an upgrade to on Alonso then.

1 hour ago, Van Butsen said:

We'll have to look elsewhere for an upgrade to on Alonso then.

Why's that then? What's he done wrong in his 16 appearances to date to (15 wins and one loss) that he needs upgrading? 

20 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Why's that then? What's he done wrong in his 16 appearances to date to (15 wins and one loss) that he needs upgrading? 

I'm aware the team has done very well in that time (and Alonso in a couple of games).

For the most part though he's been out of position a lot, slow to pick up on danger, slow paced in general (not a flaw that he can help, but better to have pace in that position), wasteful when forward and to a lesser extent untidy in possession.
 

11 minutes ago, Van Butsen said:

For the most part though he's been out of position a lot
 

Personally I think he gets dragged out because of a lack of support/covering especially from Hazard who doesn't seem to have to track back as much/as far as Pedro and Willian. 

11 minutes ago, Van Butsen said:

For the most part though he's slow to pick up on danger
 

Any particular examples? What is it you think he isn't doing or what is it you would expect him to do? That's a bit of a vague criticism for me. 

 

14 minutes ago, Van Butsen said:

For the most part though he's slow paced in general (not a flaw that he can help, but better to have pace in that position)
 

I don't think pace is a key attribute. Players such as Ivanovic and Ferreria for us were never the fastest of fullbacks but were always solid if unspectacular. 

17 minutes ago, Van Butsen said:

For the most part though he's wasteful when forward and to a lesser extent untidy in possession.
 

Comparing him to Victor Moses on the other side of our defence. They've both scored 3 goals, Alonso has 2 assists to Moses' 1 and the vague stat of "chances created" says Alonso has 17 to Moses' 14. Pass completion is 75% Alonso, 79% Moses. 

Moses has 20 appearances to Alonso's 16 for context. 

9 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Personally I think he gets dragged out because of a lack of support/covering especially from Hazard who doesn't seem to have to track back as much/as far as Pedro and Willian. 

Any particular examples? What is it you think he isn't doing or what is it you would expect him to do? That's a bit of a vague criticism for me. 

 

I don't think pace is a key attribute. Players such as Ivanovic and Ferreria for us were never the fastest of fullbacks but were always solid if unspectacular. 

Comparing him to Victor Moses on the other side of our defence. They've both scored 3 goals, Alonso has 2 assists to Moses' 1 and the vague stat of "chances created" says Alonso has 17 to Moses' 14. Pass completion is 75% Alonso, 79% Moses. 

Moses has 20 appearances to Alonso's 16 for context. 

Not sure how to break the quote up as you have so apologies for the bulk text.

I don't think Hazard's position has anything to do with Alonso's when Alonso is ball watching in the middle of the park after we have turned the ball over.  If Hazard has been told to remain further forward, then Alonso would be privvy to this information and should position himself accordingly, which leads to my next point.

Many of my examples are in his thread or the post match thread, however as a general observation (and granted not always).  Turnovers for a wing back are crucial, when we turn the ball over, the wingback is important because their position holds two meanings.  It takes Alonso far to long to move back into position (related to my first point) as he doesn't move quickly enough and can't see our own attack breaking down.  I don't mean slow paced here, I mean slow to shift everything he is doing.   That is of course when he is not involved.  When he is involved, that's where his speed is an issue. I fully support him going forward, but when the attack breaks down he doesn't have the pace to then cover his defensive duties.   Manchester United game I think it was where G.Neville sprayed him for it, I've mentioned that once or twice on this forumn at the time of the game.

I agree, pace is often hyped up a lot, but it's important for him in his current role.

Moses form has dipped a little, not to a poor extent, but rather to an Azpi extent.  He's not playing poorly, he's just doing his job without lighting up the world.  Moses finishing has also been very poor at times, but my points werent to do with the right side, they were to do with the left.  I do however have much more confidence in Moses at both ends of the park.