On 05/12/2016 at 08:57, Andy North said:

Do not get me wrong, I think Chelsea fans vocal support is some of the best in the Premier league and we should continue to support the team as best we can but I have a concern. I think Chelsea fans are in danger of accidentally putting distance between the players and the manager. I noticed when Jose came back the fans used to sing his name an awful lot and the singing of his name would ring out at top volume around the ground. It was often the loudest and longest chant of the day. At the time I had an email exchange with Pat Nevin in which I raised concern about the possibility that the players might feel put out that they were doing their best and the fans were siding with Jose. Pats response was that some players would identify with this. Think about it. If you were at work and your boss was taking all the credit for your good work you might not be best pleased. Yes Antonio has changed things for the better but so have the players.

I think we are in danger of putting distance between Antonio and the players. The crowd are really enjoying the new Antonio chant, as well they should, but, before you start or join in with this chant, just give a thought for the players who are working their B****cks off for the cause. I'm not saying stop singing for Antonio but how about a lot more singing for the team and the players. Especially towards the end of games when the players might be tiring.

You could then argue singing Frankie Lampard while current players are trying to put on a performance and even at times in a part of the game while we are struggling shows underappreciation, then again its just fans singing football songs mate, 200 grand a week would dull my sensitivity enormously 

On 05/12/2016 at 14:34, Andy North said:

Please can we stop singing Antonioooooooooo, Antoniooooooooooo, Antonio, Antonio, Antonioooooooooooo all the time.

No 

18 hours ago, Ivanov87 said:

City came at us with possibly the most attacking lineup in league history in Aguero, De bruyne, Sane, Navas, Gundogan, Silva. I don't care how good your defence is, you're not facing this line up and not giving away chances, and especially when your defence consists of Cahill and Alonso. 

Seems to me like some people want us to destroy teams week in and week out which will be acceptable if we were playing in some tinpot league and not the richest, toughest most competitive league in the world. 

We have our own of attacking set up too in costa, hazard, pedro, cesc, moses but we were unable to trouble them apart from counter attack and long ball from deep.. and we may have cahill and alonso but they have their whole defence equivalent to those 2 level..

 

Yes of course chelsea fans want the club to destroy opposition team week in week out, it's only logical, don't tell me you don't have that desire, do you?  We all may desire it but not to say we demand that and in this case, it's far from demanding the team to destroy a team of calibre like city under pep.. City could have been out of sight before the costa goal and that's the concern.. 4 games out of 5 like that would see us being the loser..

 

The perception here is just because we won then everything is not a problem, swept under the carpet and pretend it's just 1 off and it would go away by itself.. That's never been my perception, I see issue, I bring it out but if you see it otherwise then vintage point.. after all, we won the game so what's the worry, right?

 

 

Nobody is saying you cant bring up issues we have as a team, but we just beat our main rival for the title 3-1. Away. Regardless of how it happened,  thats a huge win, that rightly should be celebrated. But you have done nothing but piss and moan, saying oh if and so and so happen we might have lost. Im sure thats whats getting ln everyones tits. If we played City away all 38 games, you might have had a point to all this, besides trying to undermine the achievements of a manager you didnt want.

1 hour ago, bola said:

We have our own of attacking set up too in costa, hazard, pedro, cesc, moses but we were unable to trouble them apart from counter attack and long ball from deep.. and we may have cahill and alonso but they have their whole defence equivalent to those 2 level..

 

Yes of course chelsea fans want the club to destroy opposition team week in week out, it's only logical, don't tell me you don't have that desire, do you?  We all may desire it but not to say we demand that and in this case, it's far from demanding the team to destroy a team of calibre like city under pep.. City could have been out of sight before the costa goal and that's the concern.. 4 games out of 5 like that would see us being the loser..

 

The perception here is just because we won then everything is not a problem, swept under the carpet and pretend it's just 1 off and it would go away by itself.. That's never been my perception, I see issue, I bring it out but if you see it otherwise then vintage point.. after all, we won the game so what's the worry, right?

 

 

You make a good point but at the same time we were playing against one of the best teams not just in the premier league but in Europe and managed by one of the best managers ever so it's inevitable that they'd create chances. Id be more worried if we gave chances like that against Watford or Burnley but we don't so that's good. 

I still think as a team we're playing way above our current level and that's down to the manager and as he gets more of his players we will compete with the world class teams on an equal level. I agree we are not perfect and there are issues that needs sorting but every team has some issues that needs addressing from Liverpool to Barcelona so we're not unique. 

11 hours ago, DonAntonio said:

You could then argue singing Frankie Lampard while current players are trying to put on a performance and even at times in a part of the game while we are struggling shows underappreciation, then again its just fans singing football songs mate, 200 grand a week would dull my sensitivity enormously 

I brought this up with Pat Nevin last year when the fans were singing Jose's name for longer and louder than ever. He agreed some players would be affected by this. The players were really struggling on the pitch and the fans were predominantly singing for Jose. There was obviously a problem which seems to have mysteriously disappeared at the same time as Jose. I think the fans at Chelsea idolise their managers too much. I don't think other clubs fans sing about their managers as much as Chelsea. While I understand the managers play a crucial role I find the "over support" very strange. I'm sure if you ask Antonioooooooooooooooooo who he wants the crowd to sing for he would much prefer it if we sang for the players. They are the ones who need the support not him.

As a compromise what about "Antonio Conte's Blue & White Army".

2 hours ago, Xfaxtor said:

Nobody is saying you cant bring up issues we have as a team, but we just beat our main rival for the title 3-1. Away. Regardless of how it happened,  thats a huge win, that rightly should be celebrated. But you have done nothing but piss and moan, saying oh if and so and so happen we might have lost. Im sure thats whats getting ln everyones tits. If we played City away all 38 games, you might have had a point to all this, besides trying to undermine the achievements of a manager you didnt want.

 

who says I didn't celebrate? if by celebrate you mean not allowed to talk about the issue then we're having a different kind of definition..

 

There was much talk about our biggest tests against spurs and city so it's not that absurb for me to talk about the performance during these 2 games, is it?  It's not like I created multiple posts just to talk about the same thing, did I ? If I did then you might have had a point about me pissing off and moaning.. I made 1 post and the rest are only explaning where I was coming from becasuse it's challenged, just like this one..

 

Btw, I have nothing against conte personally, it's only getting in the so called everyone tits because I don't see the manager as some sort of holy father that can not be criticized by some of the people here.. The way I see it, the manager is getting way more credits than the players which I obviously don't agree and I take it that's also been seen as 'piss & moan' too to you and your people, no?

 

Conte's done well so far but not beyond criticism, not even jose mourinho let alone him...

 

 

2 hours ago, Ivanov87 said:

You make a good point but at the same time we were playing against one of the best teams not just in the premier league but in Europe and managed by one of the best managers ever so it's inevitable that they'd create chances. Id be more worried if we gave chances like that against Watford or Burnley but we don't so that's good. 

I still think as a team we're playing way above our current level and that's down to the manager and as he gets more of his players we will compete with the world class teams on an equal level. I agree we are not perfect and there are issues that needs sorting but every team has some issues that needs addressing from Liverpool to Barcelona so we're not unique. 

I agreed that it's inevitable to concede chances against city but it's very much 1 sided at that time before we got a lucky break with the long ball.. Make no mistake, I didn't demand us to totally dominate a strong team like city, it's just that considering the equal playing field between the 2 teams, I'd expect more of an equal output from our end to match theirs..

Btw, I see us as having the best team overall and I certainly don't agree with the bold part statement.. we are yet to reach peak level so by suggesting we're playing above our current level is kind of disrespectful to the players.. I think this is the fine example of over-crediting the manager and downplay the players's effort..

 

I can understand your excitement, we won 8 games in a row and that happened at the back of what happened last season but we can't really use last season as some kind of a benchmark, it's not normal, that was just a 1 off..

 

 

1 hour ago, Andy North said:

I brought this up with Pat Nevin last year when the fans were singing Jose's name for longer and louder than ever. He agreed some players would be affected by this. The players were really struggling on the pitch and the fans were predominantly singing for Jose. There was obviously a problem which seems to have mysteriously disappeared at the same time as Jose. I think the fans at Chelsea idolise their managers too much. I don't think other clubs fans sing about their managers as much as Chelsea. While I understand the managers play a crucial role I find the "over support" very strange. I'm sure if you ask Antonioooooooooooooooooo who he wants the crowd to sing for he would much prefer it if we sang for the players. They are the ones who need the support not him.

As a compromise what about "Antonio Conte's Blue & White Army".

To be honest we now know the players falling out with Mourinho had nothing to do with the fans singing his name. He's poisonous regardless of where he goes, whilst Conte seems to be pretty good when it comes to personal management.

 Also the fans do sing the names of players all the time as I hear Diego, Fabregas and Hazard chants. 

22 minutes ago, bola said:

I agreed that it's inevitable to concede chances against city but it's very much 1 sided at that time before we got a lucky break with the long ball.. Make no mistake, I didn't demand us to totally dominate a strong team like city, it's just that considering the equal playing field between the 2 teams, I'd expect more of an equal output from our end to match theirs..

Btw, I see us as having the best team overall and I certainly don't agree with the bold part statement.. we are yet to reach peak level so by suggesting we're playing above our current level is kind of disrespectful to the players.. I think this is the fine example of over-crediting the manager and downplay the players's effort..

 

I can understand your excitement, we won 8 games in a row and that happened at the back of what happened last season but we can't really use last season as some kind of a benchmark, it's not normal, that was just a 1 off..

 

 

The spurs game wasn't one sided as we actually had more chances than they did. Apart from their goal I don't remember one instance where they should've scored while Alonso definitely should've scored. 

 Btw we didn't get lucky with the long ball or any of our goals, it was a world class pass by Fabregas and a world class goal by Costa. You're acting like it was a hopeless punt which somehow fell to Costa. They had their chances and we had ours but the difference is that we took ours and they didn't.

Anyway why don't we just wait and see. As they play more games, get more confident and the manager spends more time with them I'm sure they'd get better. I prefer to look on the bright side. Also I tell you this, pretty much every team in the league would like to be in our position.

Edited December 7, 20169 yr by Ivanov87

2 hours ago, Andy North said:

As a compromise what about "Antonio Conte's Blue & White Army".

 

No.

17 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

 

No.

Ignore Davey - Go for it!

 

Always used to love the "Blue & White Army" chant and probably enjoyed most during Johnny Neal (had to say Johnny rather than John for the words to fit the tune). It used to go on & on and get quite frenzied.

Will probably have to adjust to Tony Conte for it to go smoothly though and then folk might think we're saying Tony Cottee, the ex West Ham & Everton legend and now Sky pundit so perhaps Davey is right (there's a first time for everything).

 

 

Edited December 7, 20169 yr by Nibs

59 minutes ago, Ivanov87 said:

The spurs game wasn't one sided as we actually had more chances than they did. Apart from their goal I don't remember one instance where they should've scored while Alonso definitely should've scored. 

 Btw we didn't get lucky with the long ball or any of our goals, it was a world class pass by Fabregas and a world class goal by Costa. You're acting like it was a hopeless punt which somehow fell to Costa. They had their chances and we had ours but the difference is that we took ours and they didn't.

Anyway why don't we just wait and see. As they play more games, get more confident and the manager spends more time with them I'm sure they'd get better. I prefer to look on the bright side. Also I tell you this, pretty much every team in the league would like to be in our position.

 

It's actually the city game for the 1 sided remark.. However, against spurs in the 1st half, we did have hard time dealing with their pressing game despite both teams's condition..

 

OK, I think I'll widthdraw the lucky long ball punt but just so you know, when you play long ball, you actually bypassing the midfield.. let me put it this way, did we manage to trouble them with our passing game? not so much but city did..

 

For your information, just because I mentioned the issues, doesn't mean I'm not happy with the results and our position..  The whole thing is very simple, we had games and we had review, that's all..

 

36 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Davey is right.

 

Good post Nibs.

3 hours ago, Andy North said:

I brought this up with Pat Nevin last year when the fans were singing Jose's name for longer and louder than ever. He agreed some players would be affected by this. The players were really struggling on the pitch and the fans were predominantly singing for Jose. There was obviously a problem which seems to have mysteriously disappeared at the same time as Jose. I think the fans at Chelsea idolise their managers too much. I don't think other clubs fans sing about their managers as much as Chelsea. While I understand the managers play a crucial role I find the "over support" very strange. I'm sure if you ask Antonioooooooooooooooooo who he wants the crowd to sing for he would much prefer it if we sang for the players. They are the ones who need the support not him.

As a compromise what about "Antonio Conte's Blue & White Army".

Our problems didnt mysteriously go with Jose, we played sh*t under Guus and got hammered by liverpool and Arsenal under Conte, we have a squad that are inconsistent in performance and mentality at times, conte managed to bring a system that suits them and made them buy into it, getting rid of cesc and bringing Matic back to form has been crucial, giving fringe players a chance like Moses has set an example to the team, playing youth more, bringing in big personalities who will give it all for the team like Luiz has shown you cant be a diva at chelsea, as good as they are cesc, diego and hazard can be ultra divas, he has seen that and worked out a way not to have that as an issue,  it was not nearly all joses fault although it was in part of course, mixing jose with divas is a recipe for disaster and it's why he lost the changing room at Real, Conte has changed the style of play but also done things that have changed the mentality around the club, he has broke up the band of divas, given a more serious bit of competition for diego and set a role that hazard enjoys, so yes she deserves the credit, and right now I'd rather lose players than conte, we are a big club with cash we can get players, getting a manager who can turn Moses from obscurity into the consecutive man of the match in a team leading the table is more valuable than any player, if the players dont like us supporting the manager then they can suck it up or move on, you said we at chelsea have a habit of vovally supporting the manager, well thats club culture, would you have us change club culture to suit one group of diva players? Not likely pal. 

57 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

 

Good post Nibs.

If we're going full-on tinpot, why not 'Tony Conte's barmy army'?

20 hours ago, Brutos said:

 

 

Not signed in

Giving Conte a run for his money as world's coolest football coach!

4 hours ago, Davey Baby said:

 

No.

 

22 hours ago, Ivanov87 said:

To be honest we now know the players falling out with Mourinho had nothing to do with the fans singing his name. He's poisonous regardless of where he goes, whilst Conte seems to be pretty good when it comes to personal management.

 Also the fans do sing the names of players all the time as I hear Diego, Fabregas and Hazard chants. 

To be fair we don't know what happened between Jose and the players. I still think the chanting for the manager risks putting distance between the players and the manager , especially when it happens so frequently. I hope I'm wrong but Pat Nevin thought I made a good point and that some players might be affected. He would know better than us.

Having revisited my email exchange with Pat his support for my point was a little less fervent than I thought but you may wish to read the original email I sent him.

 

 

A brilliant suggestion that will have some truth with some players. However most react well to any manager that brings success to the group, as long as you feel an integral part of that group!

Pat

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 Feb 2014, at 13:42, Andy North <[email protected]> wrote:

Pat

 

Looks like it could be Mohamed Salah.

 

Pat.

 

I have a take on the return of Jose that may be of interest.

 

The fans are clearly overjoyed with the return and are extremely vocal in their support of Jose. I’ve lost count of the times the cry of his name rings out from the Mathew Harding and Shed. The chant of his name, around the whole stadium, is the loudest chant during home matches. No other manager in the league is the subject of such adoration and support. In fact I’d be surprised if any manager in the history of the premier league has enjoyed such vocal support.

 

This powerful and sustained support must get through to Jose and I’m sure appreciates how much the fans love him.  

 

My point is how do the players feel about this?

 

Yes they get support as well. But not the type of support Jose gets.

 

It is well reported that Jose is a very demanding manager/coach and his teams over the years have been built on a tremendous work ethic. I can see a substantial increase in the work rate the team are putting in this season and this has definitely contributed to improved results. The players have really been working hard and this was abundantly clear in the Premier league away clash with Man City. I can’t remember a team working so hard and I applaud the effort of that evening. The players must have felt absolutely knackered the next day. They probably could have done with some extra support at the next game. I didn’t, however, detect any extra support for them in fact the support for Jose just seems to increase. Maybe this is my imagination, and as an ex player you will understand the dynamics of dressing room more than us fans, but isn’t there a chance the players will subconsciously start to feel a little isolated and maybe even a little jealous of Jose. I know I get a little frustrated when my boss takes more credit for the result of my labours than I do. When this happens I tend to want to talk about it and look for consolation from my colleges. Let’s hope the players are made of sterner stuff. Have the players looked a bit jaded in the last couple of games? Maybe just knackered. Maybe not.

 

You may not see my point at all, in which case this email has already been deleted, but if you do see something in this perhaps you could see your way to including something in your coming articles about a bit more support for the players. I know you can’t say a bit less for Jose but I’ve seen something missing in the last couple of performances and felt a bit sorry for the players. I’m sure Jose is big enough to settle for a little less adulation and would probably welcome a little additional support for the players on match day.

 

Regards

 

 

Andy North

 

Sorry but you get the things wrong. I was crazy mad happy when we equalizing for 1-1 and then i lose my voice when we score for 1-2 and then 1-3.

I don`t remember many teams that play against Guardiola teams at his ground, and they are not in defence most of the time and Guardiola team not create many, many chances to score goals. To beat Guardiola on his stadium you need big, big luck. For god sake you need big dose of luck to make it a draw.
And not many team can turn the table arround from 1-0 to 1-3 ...  Esp. when you concede a goal in the end of the half. Of course they going to have chances to score, thats how good he is and the team he manages are.

And to be fair we first recieve the chance to lead. Eden situation was very clear too. So we also can regret for not lead it right there ....

I dont think Conte is lying to himself. He probably see the problems and will solve it if he can.

Lets not forget Matic was missing from the team too.

The main problem that night was Cahill, again he was doing some s****, and Alonso. So far he is too slow for the premier league and even an average player can outrun him and put a decent cross. That is a big, big problem, which we need to fix.  Lets not forget Alonso is a recent buy player and he may need more time to adapt, as he come from slow league like Serie A. So he may very well improve with speed and most imporantly how he stands against the player. He needs better positioning against the player he face.
I do think this season is the chance for him to prove if he can improve and be a imporant first team player, or he will be a good rotatiton player.

So far Conte did great job at Chelsea, really great.

I hope he continue like that and we win the league, or atleast be in the title fight till the end.

This is the toughest league and this year PL is stronger then ever. And i do think City and United probably have a better teams then us, so i can`t be happy enough for our position.

And have in mind that this is first Conte year in England, as well as he is still young manager and have a lot to learn and he will improve with time. Atleast so far he learn from his mistake, which is perfect. Something Jose refuse to do.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 20169 yr by brakeit

not sure if anyone put up this post on this thread - I found this to be an interesting take of Don Antonio's abilities as a gaffer

 

Antonio Conte has picked up his 2nd consecutive Manager of the Month award. Very very well deserved 

Oh God, we're double cursed now!