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Following Our Nearest & Dearest Rivals, 2017/2018

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LengmanJedi

LengmanJedi

Posted
Posted
can Messi still be considered the G.O.A.T. if Argentina doesn't qualify for Russia?hmm.gif

Never the greatest of all time (top 10) I'd say a prime Brazilian ronaldo was a better attacker, plus if you factor in the international input he slips further down, not saying he's not awesome but he plays for a soft team where the refs favour them all the time so when the pressures on (various penalties and international matches) he goes missing!
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kiwi1691

kiwi1691

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, robdog said:

can Messi still be considered the G.O.A.T. if Argentina doesn't qualify for Russia?hmm.gif

Blaming Messi for the failure of the team is stupid.  Argentina has relied on individual brilliance from Messi. Messi has missed a lot of games in this campaign and Argentina without Messi are much worse than with Messi.  

Edited by kiwi1691
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kiwi1691

kiwi1691

Posted
Posted

Interesting post from reddit re Messi 

 

Quote

Its impossible to play good football under the circumstances Argentina revolves around. There's no tactical answer to the pressure that has been laid upon these players by the argentinian media and the argentinian people. This is a team that has been convinced by everyone in their country that they are a failure after 3 consecutive finals. Every change that has been proposed has failed, every new manager, every new striker, every new midfielder, every new partner for Messi. Nothing has worked. And if Messi doesn't score or "save" them at the last minute, he's done alright but not at his level.

This is not how football is meant to be played, and there's no human mind that can take a hold of the weight put on their shoulders. DiMaría gets injured during warm-ups and every big game. Gago returns and goes limp almost immediately. Higuaín has shot down mentally. The mental burden is unbearable.

And the next day, you have the entire army lined up again. Journos and fans ready to sh*t on them. Over and over again. TV hosts destroying the players and manager while gloating about peak rating numbers. Only to proclaim before the next match that they are the greatestest country and should win 5-0 every time. Creating expectations that do not measure up to reality, only to feed into the frustration and disdain of the people. They wanted Martino out because his team only beat small teams, they wanted Bauza out because the team played like sh*t, they want Sampaoli out now because he is a "vendehumo" pretentious little sh*t. They wanted Messi out for a while, team was a disaster. They wanted Icardi in and he goes missing, they wanted Dybala in and barely touches a ball. They wanted Benedetto up front because Bombonera is his fortress, Boca a giant and the argentinian league is better than Europe... but he misses sitters as well. The new saviour now is Alario from River. But he will fumble as well. Nothing has worked.

And amidst this entire affair, there you have Messi. Playing right wing, centre forward, deep playmaker and attacking mid at the same time. Knowing everyone is counting on him to do something. For awhile people bitched no one passed it to him, now they bitch because everyone passes it to him. They bitched because he remained up front walking the pitch because no one assisted him. Now they bitch because he drops and sometimes (!) doesn't dribble 6 opponnents at once. His character is questioned, he is not a leader like Maradona. His legacy diminished, he only scores against sh*t european teams. But every time a new match is approaching, everyone prays he saves them this time.

Argentina's football enviroment is facing the problem of living in an alternate reality where they are meant to win everything despite not winning anything in the past 20+ years. Of gloating about their local league and players and treating their "european" players as ball-less complacent traitors. Of pretending they know everything about football while disparaging against the modernization of the game.

Football can not be played in this atmosphere. This is a preview of what the extreme "only-results matter" perspective that seems to be growing in football more and more. Because indeed, only-results matter, but the result is pursued true hard-work, development and patience. This can not be done when your entire fanbase lacks interest in any of these factors. These are elite professional athletes crumbling down before our own eyes. I've never seen anything like this before.

 

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charierre

charierre

Posted
Posted

It's interesting how the Argies can't put together a coherent side despite having a wealth of attacking talent. Many countries have had this problem over the years, showing the contrast between club and international football and why the FIFA all stars line-ups picked by many just wouldn't work given the short preparation time afforded international coaches.

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charierre

charierre

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, LengmanJedi said:


Never the greatest of all time (top 10) I'd say a prime Brazilian ronaldo was a better attacker, plus if you factor in the international input he slips further down, not saying he's not awesome but he plays for a soft team where the refs favour them all the time so when the pressures on (various penalties and international matches) he goes missing!

Not even the greatest Argentinean.

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Ukraine Bolt

Ukraine Bolt

Posted
Posted

Imo Messi is the greatest of all time. His emergence at such a young age, his performances in one of the greatest ever teams (Pep's Barca) and his consistent performances year after year show this. A hat trick to qualify his team last night and pretty much dragged his team to a world cup final a few years back. 

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strider6004

strider6004

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Imo Messi is the greatest of all time. His emergence at such a young age, his performances in one of the greatest ever teams (Pep's Barca) and his consistent performances year after year show this. A hat trick to qualify his team last night and pretty much dragged his team to a world cup final a few years back. 

Credit to Messi, produced the goods when the Argies needed it, hard to argue with a hattrick.

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strider6004

strider6004

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Boyne said:

Looks like there won't be a 4pm (U.K. time) kick-off on Christmas Eve. A relief to fans who have to travel on that day.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/10/10/premier-league-match-christmas-eve-will-not-take-place-4pm/

You would think they would only do derbies or teams very close to each other, still at least they have ruled out 4pm.

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robdog

robdog

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Slojo said:

Well if you're making an argument on stats about Messi vs Ronaldo, Zinedine Zidane had terrible stats in comparison to both, but he was still a better footballer than Ronaldo.

 

The ZZ effect
70e556a709c049404618542d6cb998b9--zinedi

The Messi effect
452111330_1.jpg.CROP.promo-mediumlarge.j

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Slojo

Slojo

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, robdog said:

The ZZ effect
70e556a709c049404618542d6cb998b9--zinedi

The Messi effect
452111330_1.jpg.CROP.promo-mediumlarge.j

Means nothing, it's a team game, Messi played in a final at the very least. 

There have been many mediocre players that have had good international careers and won a world cup. 

Messi has been the top dog consistently for years. 

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kiwi1691

kiwi1691

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, robdog said:

The ZZ effect
70e556a709c049404618542d6cb998b9--zinedi

The Messi effect
452111330_1.jpg.CROP.promo-mediumlarge.j

I hope you are taking the piss.

 

At the 2014 world cup out of the whole Argentinian team only Messi and Mascherano preformed well. Messi was directly involved with almost all of Argentina's goals. 

 

I guess you think Ronaldo is better than Messi, because Portugal won the Euro's as Ronaldo watched from the sidelines. 

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