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nonotnowjim

2018/19 squad

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8 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

Seeing as we are only two weeks away from the transfer window closing, i'm revising my team from the start of the thread.

GK:

Courtois. We won't sign anybody better or on his level now, so just stick with him for another season and risk losing him for nothing next season. I don't want Reina or any stop gap signing. Just get the job done next season. 

Caballero. Nothing special but he'll do as backup and Rob Green as the 3rd choice.

RB:

Azpilicueta. This is easy. Azpilicueta is one of the best defenders on the planet, and he's underrated going forward.

Moses. I think he's better defensively than he is going forward, as a backup he's good enough.

LB:

Emerson. I think he would suit Sarri's system better than Alonso, so he would be my first choice.

Alonso. You won't find many better back up LB's. It's good to have different types of LB's.

CB:

Rudiger, Christensen, Rugani (if he ever actually gets here) and Cahill or Luiz, i wouldn't give up Rudiger or Christensen for either of these two. No idea who i would have as first choice, there isn't much between them. Rudiger would definitely be one to take one of the two available spots though if it was my choice.

DM and CM:

Kante, Jorginho. Those two are the obvious ones.

Ampadu, Loftus-Cheek and Fabregas the backups.

CAM:

Barkley. I would start him and see what Sarri can do with him. The potential is there, hopefully Sarri get's it out of him. Fabregas and Loftus-Cheek can come in depending on the circumstances of the game too.

RW:

Pedro or Willian, i would prefer one of them to be sold and we bring somebody like Bailey.

LW:

Hazard, first name on the team sheet.

Hudson-Odoi. Hopefully he gets even more chances this season. He's another with great potential.

ST:

Morata, i would give him another season.

Batshuayi, could work well in Sarri's system.

Giroud, squad player.

 

PLAYERS OUT:

Zappacosta, i don't think he's good enough or needed in all honesty.

Zouma, he won't suit Sarri's system and with us being covered at CB i just don't think he is needed.

Drinkwater, same as Zappacosta.

Bakayoko, sold or loan, don't really care.

Musonda, i'm not sure he will ever be good enough.

David Luiz or Cahill. CB is covered, and if Rugani arrives, somebody has to leave.

Willian or Pedro. Like i said above, i would like us to bring in somebody like Bailey.

Also remember that Dave can cover at LB as well,

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On 25/07/2018 at 12:47, Ilya said:

I don't understand the obsession with promoting youth. Surely it's just a means to an end, no? Or is it important in itself to have the heart-warming story of academy player becoming Captain, Leader, Legend and all that?

Given a reasonably gifted youngster who clearly isn't good enough to be playing for the first team yet - not by comparison with other options - are we meant to give them games at the expense of better players, i.e. make the team worse in order to ... I'm not actually sure what? A slightly increased chance of keeping them long term if they do come good?

Is warming the bench better than getting games at a smaller club for a development of a promising player?

But that's just it, the majority are not saying "promote the youth at all costs".

There are certain youth players who do look ready and would be worth having in the first team squad. Would RLC perform any worse than Bakayoko? (Can't imagine anyone arguing that one). Would we not be better off having Hudson-Odoi on the bench as a game changer rather than a Pedro, Willian or Moses? And Ampadu is another who looks as though he has slotted into the first team squad seamlessly.   

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Aha. So we are talking "when/if they are actually good enough". That's fair enough. Although I rather suspect we won't agree on some of the assessments.

9 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Would RLC perform any worse than Bakayoko?

Probably not, but that's less an argument in favour of RLC, more an argument against Bakayoko. Personally, I'd rather neither was there all that often.

13 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Would we not be better off having Hudson-Odoi on the bench as a game changer rather than a Pedro, Willian?

Absolutely not, imo. I mean, one day Hudson-Odoi might prove himself to be a better player. But on the evidence I have now - not even close. I don't get all the hate for Pedro and Willian. Yes, both a bit inconsistent, but both - in their own way - have proven to be very capable of awesomeness at the highest level.

 

16 minutes ago, Nibs said:

And Ampadu is another who looks as though he has slotted into the first team squad seamlessly. 

I don't want to dis any of these talented kids. But when we play Arsenal on the 18th - I sure as hell would be more comfortable with a list of 3-4 players for any of the positions he is meant to be able to play.

 

So for me it looks like all of these guys - if we are talking purely on merit - are only may be good enough to be subs and not even 1st choice subs for their positions - 2nd choice subs. Which realistically translates into 7 minutes here, a crappy cup game there. Which, ironically, given that everyone frets so much about their development, is not necessarily better for their development, than going on loan to somewhere like Newcastle and getting proper games.

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When do Hazard, Courtois, Batshuayi, RLC, Giroud and Kante report back? I remember seeing a few weeks ago a rough date for return but I haven't heard anything since about when they'll be back.

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6 minutes ago, chiefBlueCFC said:

When do Hazard, Courtois, Batshuayi, RLC, Giroud and Kante report back? I remember seeing a few weeks ago a rough date for return but I haven't heard anything since about when they'll be back.

5-6 august. All our world cup players get a standard 3 weeks off.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea-fixtures-preseason-friendlies-and-international-champions-cup-2018-schedule-in-full-a3892086.html

When are the big guns back?

All those involved in the World Cup were given three weeks off from the day after their nation was knocked out. Eden Hazard, N’Golo Kante, Olivier Giroud, Gary Cahill, Michy Batshuayi, Ruben Loftus-Cheek and Courtois will not be back until August 5-6.

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6 minutes ago, Kentonio said:

August 5th.

We decided some while ago not to waste time, money and effort going to the Charity shield as it was pretty obvious of lot of both ours and indeed City players wouldn’t be ready for the match and likewise we decided against attending  the Lyon game .

I suspect a couple will feature in that Lyon game and possibly , but unlikely, the Huddersfield game so for me most wont be available for selection till the home game against Arsenal or maybe not till the Newcastle game.

For me ,no doubt like the majority , Jose no longer holds that special place in my heart, but he does have a point about the WC returnees. This WC was bad but goodness knows the impact it will have in 4 years time

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3 minutes ago, terraloon said:

For me ,no doubt like the majority , Jose no longer holds that special place in my heart, but he does have a point about the WC returnees. This WC was bad but goodness knows the impact it will have in 4 years time

Didn't he say something about it being a big problem for United but not for Chelsea? Doesn't he even know we had more players at the world cup than any other team?

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3 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

ooops! - Probably not gonna be a full-strength team out for that one, then

Nope. City have the same problem. So it'll be Chelsea Reserves vs Man City Reserves.

The PL really cocked up with the early fixtures. Was that to accommodate the 'winter break' ?.

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2 minutes ago, Kentonio said:

Didn't he say something about it being a big problem for United but not for Chelsea? Doesn't he even know we had more players at the world cup than any other team?

Bar Man City and Real Madrid

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1 hour ago, Ilya said:

Aha. So we are talking "when/if they are actually good enough". That's fair enough. Although I rather suspect we won't agree on some of the assessments.

Probably not, but that's less an argument in favour of RLC, more an argument against Bakayoko. Personally, I'd rather neither was there all that often.

Absolutely not, imo. I mean, one day Hudson-Odoi might prove himself to be a better player. But on the evidence I have now - not even close. I don't get all the hate for Pedro and Willian. Yes, both a bit inconsistent, but both - in their own way - have proven to be very capable of awesomeness at the highest level.

 

I don't want to dis any of these talented kids. But when we play Arsenal on the 18th - I sure as hell would be more comfortable with a list of 3-4 players for any of the positions he is meant to be able to play.

 

So for me it looks like all of these guys - if we are talking purely on merit - are only may be good enough to be subs and not even 1st choice subs for their positions - 2nd choice subs. Which realistically translates into 7 minutes here, a crappy cup game there. Which, ironically, given that everyone frets so much about their development, is not necessarily better for their development, than going on loan to somewhere like Newcastle and getting proper games.

To be fair it's all about opinions and I must admit, on RLC, I agree the jury is still out and as you say, Bakayoko has been so poor ANYONE would be an improvement.

CHO is where I would disagree most. Sure he is a raw 17 year old and will have games where it doesn't work out but equally may tear teams apart and be a sensation. It is that unknown quantity that I would like to see us give a go, rather than Pedro and Willian who have one decent game, then 3 bad ones and so it goes on. At some point you have to try something different and the thought of same old, same old with players like Pedro and Willian next season does not get the juices going!

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12 minutes ago, Osgood is Good said:

Nope. City have the same problem. So it'll be Chelsea Reserves vs Man City Reserves.

The PL really cocked up with the early fixtures. Was that to accommodate the 'winter break' ?.

Do they ? They'll be missing KDB, Kompany, Sterling, Stones, Walker and Delph.

They have a lot more squad depth then we do. They could line up something like this.

Ederson

Danilo Laporte Otamendi ?

Fernandinho

Gundogan Silva

Mahrez/BErnardo Aguero/JEsus SAne

 

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22 minutes ago, Hazard10 said:

Do they ? They'll be missing KDB, Kompany, Sterling, Stones, Walker and Delph.

They have a lot more squad depth then we do. They could line up something like this.

Ederson

Danilo Laporte Otamendi ?

Fernandinho

Gundogan Silva

Mahrez/BErnardo Aguero/JEsus SAne

 

And we could line up

Cabellero
Azpi Christensen Rudiger Alonso/Emerson
Jorginho
Fabregas Barkley
Willian Morata Pedro

But we will be missing Kante, Hazard and Courtois from our starting 11.

Apart from Cabellero I don't see too many issues

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26 minutes ago, Hazard10 said:

Do they ? They'll be missing KDB, Kompany, Sterling, Stones, Walker and Delph.

They have a lot more squad depth then we do. They could line up something like this.

Ederson

Danilo Laporte Otamendi ?

Fernandinho

Gundogan Silva

Mahrez/BErnardo Aguero/JEsus SAne

 

Sorry did not know that players from Brazil, Argentina would be back in time to play in the Charity Shield.

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10 minutes ago, Osgood is Good said:

Sorry did not know that players from Brazil, Argentina would be back in time to play in the Charity Shield.

Christensen and Azpi are back so I would imagine so

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With it looking more likely now that Willian and Hazard are both staying put, I'm happy now with the squad we go into the season with. My only concern is up front. Not sure if Morata is good enough to lead the line, and Tammy probably needs another year on loan. I'd be more than happy to give Bats another shot up front, but it's still a risk. I still have no idea who we are going to start as No1 GK yet though.

Most likely start like this:

                       GK

Dave       Luiz         Rudiger     Alonso

    kante       Barkley      Jorginho 

      Willian     Giroud     Hazard    

                     

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8 hours ago, Ilya said:

Aha. So we are talking "when/if they are actually good enough". That's fair enough. Although I rather suspect we won't agree on some of the assessments.

Probably not, but that's less an argument in favour of RLC, more an argument against Bakayoko. Personally, I'd rather neither was there all that often.

Absolutely not, imo. I mean, one day Hudson-Odoi might prove himself to be a better player. But on the evidence I have now - not even close. I don't get all the hate for Pedro and Willian. Yes, both a bit inconsistent, but both - in their own way - have proven to be very capable of awesomeness at the highest level.

 

I don't want to dis any of these talented kids. But when we play Arsenal on the 18th - I sure as hell would be more comfortable with a list of 3-4 players for any of the positions he is meant to be able to play.

 

So for me it looks like all of these guys - if we are talking purely on merit - are only may be good enough to be subs and not even 1st choice subs for their positions - 2nd choice subs. Which realistically translates into 7 minutes here, a crappy cup game there. Which, ironically, given that everyone frets so much about their development, is not necessarily better for their development, than going on loan to somewhere like Newcastle and getting proper games.

What do you mean by merit? No youth players would ever play if decisions were based off production or experience because any experience is better than 0. 

In CHO's case he may not be better than Pedro or Willian right now. By that standard though when will he ever get there or when will you know until you play him? That's why I would favor him over Pedro right now, we need to find out how good he is. If he is hot garbage for 20 games this season then we know he's either not ready or just not good enough. On the other hand maybe he turns out to be better than Pedro or Willian by the end of the season. You play him because of what he can become 2 years down the road not only what he is right now. 

My local club had 3 U21 players getting starts and lots of minutes due to injury early this MLS season and all three have stuck because they've improved and shown flashes of being star players. Those injured starters have returned and our coach still rotates them. Are the younger guys better options for tomorrow? Probably not. Better options in a month? Maybe. Could they be better by next season? Yes. The coach, who is the best in the league, told a group of us he was playing one of them, Jalen Lindsay, out of position on purpose because he wanted to see how he'd adapt and he thought he could make the spot his own going forward. 

This may seem like playing the kids for the sake of it but it's what you have to do to develop players. Ronaldo didn't walk into United and start from day one.  

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17 hours ago, Nibs said:

But that's just it, the majority are not saying "promote the youth at all costs".

There are certain youth players who do look ready and would be worth having in the first team squad. Would RLC perform any worse than Bakayoko? (Can't imagine anyone arguing that one). Would we not be better off having Hudson-Odoi on the bench as a game changer rather than a Pedro, Willian or Moses? And Ampadu is another who looks as though he has slotted into the first team squad seamlessly.   

Totally agree Nibs. It's not about playing the kids at all costs and it's not about having to play then because we have no money and have a thin squad. It's about creating an environment that allows for true talent in the youngsters to flourish and develop. I have bene a fan since 1972 and have been lucky to see a number of youngsters break into the first team. Some of these have gone on to be legends of the game ("Butch" Wilkins), some of them may not have fulfilled their full potential (Neil Shipperley perhaps) but is there anything better in football than seeing a youngster get his chance in the team and to overcome the nerves and the awe of making the first team to put in an exciting performance and to display the promise that we may have created a potential great of the future. As I say being a fan for a while I have seen my fair share of youngsters breaking through but how fantastic must it have been to have been stood in the Shed (Whitewall of course) and watch a young Jimmy Greaves make his debut and make everyone in the ground stop what their doing and stare in awe at his performance. If we could recapture just an element of that raw passion in lads like Ampadu, CHO, Aina etc. for me it's what the game is all about. I'll remember the youngsters' raw talent in the years to come more than I will remember the silverware. It's true.

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9 hours ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

This may seem like playing the kids for the sake of it but it's what you have to do to develop players. Ronaldo didn't walk into United and start from day one.  

First and foremost - I think loan system works very well for that. Young players get games and develop, the club get to see what they can do.

 

But even if we ignore that option for the sake of the argument - nothing beats an internet argument :) - and pretend that it has to be a choice between playing the team that has the biggest chance of winning next Saturday and playing a team that has a smaller chance of winning in the hope that one or two of the players might become Ronaldo a year later - my personal preference is to play as well as we can on Saturday.

 

To be honest it's not quite so much of a binary choice. There's two domestic cups, Europa League ... there will be a lot of games. And 2nd and 3rd choice players will get games. And if CHO or Ampadu are happy enough to spend the year mostly on the bench and get a few cup games and if the manager thinks they are useful for that purpose - cool. But, again, when we play Arsenal on the second weekend of the season - I want Willian/Perdo and Rudiger/Chritinsen in the team. Not a couple of kids that might become Ronaldo 2 years from now.

 

And Christinsen, by the way, is a perfect example of how I think it should be done. He went to a smaller club on loan, got games, proved himself -  and now he is a first team regular. Good for him and good for us.

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1 hour ago, Ilya said:

First and foremost - I think loan system works very well for that. Young players get games and develop, the club get to see what they can do.

 

But even if we ignore that option for the sake of the argument - nothing beats an internet argument :) - and pretend that it has to be a choice between playing the team that has the biggest chance of winning next Saturday and playing a team that has a smaller chance of winning in the hope that one or two of the players might become Ronaldo a year later - my personal preference is to play as well as we can on Saturday.

 

To be honest it's not quite so much of a binary choice. There's two domestic cups, Europa League ... there will be a lot of games. And 2nd and 3rd choice players will get games. And if CHO or Ampadu are happy enough to spend the year mostly on the bench and get a few cup games and if the manager thinks they are useful for that purpose - cool. But, again, when we play Arsenal on the second weekend of the season - I want Willian/Perdo and Rudiger/Chritinsen in the team. Not a couple of kids that might become Ronaldo 2 years from now.

 

And Christinsen, by the way, is a perfect example of how I think it should be done. He went to a smaller club on loan, got games, proved himself -  and now he is a first team regular. Good for him and good for us.

Stop fretting about that Arsenal game - it'll be Fine! :smile:

Not saying we should be starting players like CHO every week, but honestly, when it comes to having impact players on the bench, I would much rather throw on CHO with 25 minutes to go than Pedro or Willian. I don't recall either making regular significant impacts as subs in the past whereas CHO clearly has plenty in his locker with pace to burn and I'm pretty certain he would cause those Gooner defenders more problems than the others. 

 

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Cut that short but what I meant to go on to add was similar situations at other clubs. The best example would be Rashford at Man Utd. First broke into Utd team when just 18 and at times has been sensational. If not starting then he is certainly a player you would have on the bench as a game-changer. Plenty of Utd fans now unhappy about his "development" since Mourinho took over as we all know he finds it hard to bring himself to trust young players. Hopefully we now have a coach who will show a bit more faith.

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