3 hours ago, jack_super_class said:

It was last summer where we f**ked it up, we had the momentum of winning the league and the board f**ked it up badly.

You think, you have no evidence to back that statement up. 

I think we are now starting to really pay for abandoning what we started when we signed Hazard, Oscar and Mata - signing players who technically gifted. We brought back a manager who was never going to carry on with what we were building for the longterm future. For short term gain it was ripped up. Yes, we bagged a couple of titles but they were in very poor standard seasons when City were way below their best. However, even when not at their best City have been playing technically good football  and signing players who can play that way. They now have it all in place with the best manager guiding them along. Meanwhile, we have an odd mishmash of players with many either not technically good enough or not fit or fast enough to play Sarriball. Look at the horrendous waste of money on the likes of Bats and Bakayoko. Players who wouldn''t get in City's junior teams on technical ability. Sarri has the hardest job of any Chelsea manager in the last 25 years!

1 hour ago, kiwi1691 said:

You think, you have no evidence to back that statement up. 

well close the bloody forum down then.

42 minutes ago, Dixon said:

I think we are now starting to really pay for abandoning what we started when we signed Hazard, Oscar and Mata - signing players who technically gifted. We brought back a manager who was never going to carry on with what we were building for the longterm future. For short term gain it was ripped up. Yes, we bagged a couple of titles but they were in very poor standard seasons when City were way below their best. However, even when not at their best City have been playing technically good football  and signing players who can play that way. They now have it all in place with the best manager guiding them along. Meanwhile, we have an odd mishmash of players with many either not technically good enough or not fit or fast enough to play Sarriball. Look at the horrendous waste of money on the likes of Bats and Bakayoko. Players who wouldn''t get in City's junior teams on technical ability. Sarri has the hardest job of any Chelsea manager in the last 25 years!

First of all there are different ways of winning a football-game and titles no less. We have absolutely deserved our titles.

It seems this Pep-style is really in fashion. And will probably be for some time. 

Our current situation in terms of squad is far from optimal as you said but I think we have a good core of players who are technically gifted and smart enough to make this a winning style for us. Hazard, Willian, Kante, Jorginho, Cesc, Moses to name a few can fit into this style of football. In the January we will buy 1 or 2 players and have a pretty good squad for it next summer. 

3 hours ago, big blue said:

It wasn't good against city, but it's important to remember that city are by far the best team the country, and the squad as it is now is comfortably stronger than 14 teams in the league. 

It's going to take a couple if months before we start seeing a real sarri team begin to take shape. 

The club cannot expect sarri to challenge for the title, when they are not bringing in top quality players. 

Ideally we will add 2 or 3 players that improve the starting 11, if we don't, then this season is a transitional season, in which our goal is change the style of football, whilst finishing top 4. Any trophy would be a massive bonus.

We are paying the price for a lot of poor decisions in transfer market over a number seasons. We aren't willing to spend big to fix the problems quickly, so it's going to take time. 

Agree with that. City are the best team in the country even when you have a full team and you're not trying to completely change your style of play.

Those saying the performances last season were on Conte have been shown that 'attacking football' isn't a magic wand. 

What today also demonstrated is that you can't play Fabregas and Jorginho in the same team against this level of opponent. You have to press and you have to have energy. You can't have two guys with so little pace. 

Marina has work to do this week. It shouldn't involve Martial as he wouldn't work in an iron lung. It should involve high energy players who can play further forward (attacking midfield or wing) who can press without the ball.

1 hour ago, Spiller86 said:

Agree with that. City are the best team in the country even when you have a full team and you're not trying to completely change your style of play.

Those saying the performances last season were on Conte have been shown that 'attacking football' isn't a magic wand. 

What today also demonstrated is that you can't play Fabregas and Jorginho in the same team against this level of opponent. You have to press and you have to have energy. You can't have two guys with so little pace. 

Marina has work to do this week. It shouldn't involve Martial as he wouldn't work in an iron lung. It should involve high energy players who can play further forward (attacking midfield or wing) who can press without the ball.

I think the key word in that is energy. We lacked energy all over the pitch today. We didn't press city anywhere near as much or as efficiently as they pressed us, which meant the defence was under pressure. 

There was only going to be one outcome.

That midfield 3 will leave us vulnerable against most teams in the league, hopefully we don't see it too often this season.

I'm not sure whether we will do much business, I would still like to see us bring in a couple more attacking options, but at the same time, I dont want to see us waste money on players that will never be good enough.

 

1 hour ago, big blue said:

I think the key word in that is energy. We lacked energy all over the pitch today. We didn't press city anywhere near as much or as efficiently as they pressed us, which meant the defence was under pressure. 

There was only going to be one outcome.

That midfield 3 will leave us vulnerable against most teams in the league, hopefully we don't see it too often this season.

I'm not sure whether we will do much business, I would still like to see us bring in a couple more attacking options, but at the same time, I dont want to see us waste money on players that will never be good enough.

 

The last part is the core concern. I've raised in a number of threads but it is worthwhile repeating. We have over the past three seasons had really key areas that needed improvement. Consistently we have been unable to secure our first targets and have then been forced to pursue mediocre backup options that haven't made the grade. This has led to enormous waste and in some cases we would have been better of using some youth players instead.

5 hours ago, kiwi1691 said:

You think, you have no evidence to back that statement up. 

Morata and Bakayoko proven bad signings that we are stuck with, that's enough evidence for me

9 hours ago, evissy said:

First of all there are different ways of winning a football-game and titles no less. We have absolutely deserved our titles.

It seems this Pep-style is really in fashion. And will probably be for some time. 

Our current situation in terms of squad is far from optimal as you said but I think we have a good core of players who are technically gifted and smart enough to make this a winning style for us. Hazard, Willian, Kante, Jorginho, Cesc, Moses to name a few can fit into this style of football. In the January we will buy 1 or 2 players and have a pretty good squad for it next summer. 

Very inconsistent - on his day I’ll give you it but that’s only every couple of months, too old - legs have gone, can’t play with Jorginho who is unathletic in his own right, not good enough to play RW as proven before and highly unlikely to be able to play RB in a 4.

 

The only stand out players we have IMO are Tibo, Azpilicueta, Kante, Hazard. I’ve not seen enough of Jorginho to include him. That’s only 4 players - one of which is the keeper. That’s concerning. I hope Sarri can get us working as a unit but this isn’t Serie A. The competition in the PL is significantly higher as is the pace the games played at compared to the Italian league.

 

All about opinions but I think our squad is weaker than City, United, Liverpool, Spurs & probably on a par with Arsenal. I’ll get slated for it, but it’s we’ve have a real struggle on for top four.

 

If Sarri gets us top 4 with this squad while playing attacking football, he’ll have done an outstanding job!

Squad certainly not as bad as everyone is making out and overreacting after losing a friendly to the greatest Premier league side of all time that just added another £60m attacker to its ranks. Other than KdB replacing Foden that was pretty much a full strength City side. 

Once you factor back in Hazard, Willian, Batshuayi and Kante and give Sarri time to realise we have better players than Alonso and D.Luiz on the bench our starting 11 is looking strong. Add this to the fact we have had 2 and a hald weeks with Sarri and City have had 2 YEARS with Pep, no wonder we looked like children against them. 

I think 1 more CM (Vecino) and a new GK if Courtois is leaving and we've got a good enough squad to make top 4 and take the Europa league. 

New GK

Azpi   Rudiger   Christensen   Emerson

Jorginho

Kante                 Barkley

Willian        Batshuayi       Hazard

Quite a prominent reaction here and in the press was that Sarri doesn't have the players for his system. Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but my impression is that the only nailed-on pre-requisite to playing Sarriball is lots and lots of fast running. Everything else - the one touch passing, the discipline of movement, etc - can potentially be taught. And while not everyone will be susceptible to teaching, Sarri's time at Napoli suggests that even the most unexpected people can come good.

 

So when people say that Cesc is not suited to Sarriball - fair enough, he's not gonna start running like Hamsik. But we have plenty of young fit, fast players. I look at the team @RIP Mourinho suggests above - and I don't see a single position that will obviously fail. Some might, but let's just give it a month or two. And then may be some youngsters will come in or may be we'll grab a couple of additions in winter.

I think there are players who have done well for us in the past (and some not so well) but there are big question marks over them going forward:

Fabregas - I said last season would be his last with us. I know he has never been quick as his game is not about speed but he is now so slow that I honestly can't think of a slower player. Even JT could beat him in a race. Opposition will target him and that could make him us much of a liability as Bakayoko.

Alonso - He exceeded expectations under Conte and I really like him BUT again, he lacks pace and even second rate attackers are embarrassing him at times and he does look a very weak link in the back 4.  

Moses - Another player who exceeded under Conte but he just doesn't have enough quality for where we need to be. Maybe keep him as squad player but he's not the sort of player who will excite you or give you reason for optimism if he gets thrown on as a sub, So I really don't see where he fits in.

Moratta - Shocking again yesterday. We all want him to come good but we would all like to win the lottery.Think we have to accept, some things just ain't gonna happen. We saw what a difference a decent striker makes with City having Aguerro. Sometimes when things aren't going a teams way and you're being outplayed you need your striker to get you out of a hole. Just can't see Morata ever being capable of being that man.

Don't want to be too pesimistic though because we all know our best two players are Hazard and Kante and with them back in the side we WILL see a massive difference. But I think decisions need to be made on some players sooner rather than later. Oh, and sort out the Keeper situation!!  

Give Sarri time to implement his style on the team. It’s clearly a work in progress, we’re not going to be playing beautiful total football for a few months at the very least and until then, there will be disappointing results on the way.

I am generally happy with the squad we have now. Of course wanting more signings is understandable and I really don't think the board have helped Sarri that much apart from Jorginho. We should of employed him earlier and not messed around with that whole situation with Conte. My worry is that he won't be given time and the board will expect instant success with him. Top 4 will be the toughest it's ever been this season and the EL is not an easy feat, If the board are not patient with him after failing to back him in the transfer window then the board need to look at themselves a little.

As much as Willian frustrates me sometimes, I don't think we can let him leave. There's not a lot of replacements out there that are attainable for us with so little time left in the window.

This is my predicted line up if Courtois leaves which I think is looking likely.

Kasper

Azpi/Moses   Rudiger   Christensen/Luiz   Emerson/Alonso

Jorginho/Drinkwater

Kante/Bakayoko              Fab/RLC/Barkley

Willian/Pedro/Moses        Batshuayi/Morata/Giroud     Hazard/Odoi

 

That's a pretty decent squad on paper and our first 11 could rival anyone but as soon as injuries creep in then we are looking quite vulnerable. Kante worries me, yesterday we didn't have any energy in that midfield. He's such a big difference to have in any team and he's a bigger miss for us than Hazard. Once again though, if one of the best GKs in the world leaves us. Are we weaker or strong than last season?

In terms of signings over the next couple of days I am not expecting much apart from a Goalkeeper. Kasper seems the obvious choice as Leicester have a replacement already brought in. Anyone else would be a bonus, but they would have to be of certain quality. There's not point stockpiling players like Zappacosta and Drinkwater. That's nearly 60m on 2 players that won't feature that much this season.  Martial would be a big signing but we would need him to play through the middle and that would mean one of Michy/Giroud would leave. So who knows what will happen over the next couple of days.

 

-

Nice post Sheva. Two guys called Fekir and Ndombele playing for Lyon against us midweek  who could help with our issues. 

 

13 hours ago, Dixon said:

I think we are now starting to really pay for abandoning what we started when we signed Hazard, Oscar and Mata - signing players who technically gifted. We brought back a manager who was never going to carry on with what we were building for the longterm future. For short term gain it was ripped up. Yes, we bagged a couple of titles but they were in very poor standard seasons when City were way below their best. However, even when not at their best City have been playing technically good football  and signing players who can play that way. They now have it all in place with the best manager guiding them along. Meanwhile, we have an odd mishmash of players with many either not technically good enough or not fit or fast enough to play Sarriball. Look at the horrendous waste of money on the likes of Bats and Bakayoko. Players who wouldn''t get in City's junior teams on technical ability. Sarri has the hardest job of any Chelsea manager in the last 25 years!

Bluemoon called  -  they are missing you and want you home before dark.

1 hour ago, Spiller86 said:

Nice post Sheva. Two guys called Fekir and Ndombele playing for Lyon against us midweek  who could help with our issues. 

 

I am looking forward to seeing them both play aswell. I read lyon are keen on RLC, if hes not in Sarri's plans, maybe send him in loan there to sweeten a deal for Fekir? 

 

1 hour ago, Spiller86 said:

Nice post Sheva. Two guys called Fekir and Ndombele playing for Lyon against us midweek  who could help with our issues. 

 

Fekir will solve so many of our problems, it will be ridiculous if we don’t try. He could slot in on the right, in place of Barkley and up top as a 9. Liverpool will most likely be back in Jan to do a deal for next season. 

Lyon are saying Fekir could still leave, Bailey has come out to say he has offers and even though I am not big on Pulisic, Dortmund will sell for the right fee. We have a bloated squad on fat wages and it will be difficult to shift our deadwood out. 

17 hours ago, Dixon said:

I think we are now starting to really pay for abandoning what we started when we signed Hazard, Oscar and Mata - signing players who technically gifted. We brought back a manager who was never going to carry on with what we were building for the longterm future. For short term gain it was ripped up. 

maybe the mistake isn't with the managers appointed, or the signing of the players, but the fact that we have seemingly done both irrespective of the other? giving mourinho and (particularly) conte a load of technomidgets isn't going to help them, and giving sarri a team of guys who "eat grass" and don't have the same technical level isn't going to help him. 

we didn't get sarri because he was the best man to coach this squad. we got him cos he was available and we were looking. same with the others really. 

the problem is changing direction. buy a load of technical players, then bring in managers who want grafters. spend 5 years building a squad for them (kinda on the cheap, because you've sort of got your eye on sacking them anyway), then bring in a manager who wants technical players. and we say "he'll need time", but he won't get it. we've hyped him up, "sarriball" and all that. if this team is midtable at christmas, these players won't be happy just because we're playing tiki-taka. the board won't be happy. he won't still be manager next season unless we at least get top 4. then it's back to square one. who do we bring in? "dunno...who's available?". 

One month of time minimum to see the real Sarri's Chelsea. I hope to not lose points saturday , despite the team is under construction. 

For me it needs a great mieldfielder that combine technique and running to play next to Kantè and Jorginho.

I think you need to be very comfortable with the ball in your feet to play Sarriball. I think Cesc is that. He can pass and make smart moves. He fits in Sarri's system IMO. 

He has same qualities as Jorginho and with Kante in these 3 can play together. Jorginho and Kante can steal the ball from opponents feet.

Cesc can make world class passes to break defenses, Jorginho sets the pace and Kante steals the ball back to us and is the pacy one from the 3.

1 minute ago, evissy said:

I think you need to be very comfortable with the ball in your feet to play Sarriball. I think Cesc is that. He can pass and make smart moves. He fits in Sarri's system IMO. 

He has same qualities as Jorginho and with Kante in these 3 can play together. Jorginho and Kante can steal the ball from opponents feet.

Cesc can make world class passes to break defenses, Jorginho sets the pace and Kante steals the ball back to us and is the pacy one from the 3.

Nope.

Fabregas is a spent force. Sure, he has been brilliant and is still capable of the occasional pin-point pass but his legs have gone and some. For the benefit he gives you he is too much of a luxury and in big games he will be a liability. NO other club looking to compete at the highest level would still find room for him in their side. It's a shame, but that's how it is.

 

I have a feeling that people are projecting their own ideas of what good football is onto this mysterious "Sarriball".

I for, instance, think that the crucial part of Sarriball is having a big striker who can head the crosses in. 

4 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Nope.

Fabregas is a spent force. Sure, he has been brilliant and is still capable of the occasional pin-point pass but his legs have gone and some. For the benefit he gives you he is too much of a luxury and in big games he will be a liability. NO other club looking to compete at the highest level would still find room for him in their side. It's a shame, but that's how it is.

 

Agreed. I think Fabregas will be backup to Jorginho if anything. probably used more in cup matches

3 minutes ago, Ilya said:

I have a feeling that people are projecting their own ideas of what good football is onto this mysterious "Sarriball".

I for, instance, think that the crucial part of Sarriball is having a big striker who can head the crosses in. 

so Giroud would be the logical choice there on form